• Hi Guest - Come check out all of the new CP Merch Shop! Now you can support CigarPass buy purchasing hats, apparel, and more...
    Click here to visit! here...

Audiophiles, I need some guidance

khari

khari

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2007
Messages
3,636
Thanks to some of the SOBs on this forum (Doc, Madmonk and AVB immediately come to mind), I find myself giving in to a new addiction er, hobby. I feel like this one could be a really bad slope to slide down so I'm looking to get a good setup so I don't have to do too much research, because for me research equals more money spent.

I'm looking at the Carver Amazing Line Source-III (ALS-III) and the Infinity Reference Standard II-B (IRS-IIB) speakers. Thoughts on either? Any opinions on amp, pre-amp, etc.?
 
Seriously, I've never heard the ALS. I've heard a lot of Infinity, and think you could do better for the money. To me, their tweeters suck, and can kill frogs at 20 paces. Speaker Technology has made some very incredible gains in the past 20+ years.

It's really a very personal thing, and in my opinion, you really need to see if you can find a real and true "high end" shop to see what true high fidelity sounds like, see if you want to go there. See/hear the differences that to a guy like me, are very noticeable. Bring your favorite, most familiar music, and see how it sounds. A good dealer will try to stay in your budget and mix and match "in stock" components based on your feedback while listening.
He'll set up the speakers more properly versus a wall of speakers and a selector switch.

I tend to think the 3 of us you mentioned would recommend a pretty good array of items, perhaps not naming the same, but also agreeing that the others picks are worth a listen.

First lesson. Never ask an Audiophile to help you with a system. :D
 
Also, based on what I know of Doc's system, he has a very astute approach with a system that "checks" all the audiophile boxes, and probably sounds pretty damn fine with just about any type, or higher percentage, of music.

My He-Man rig is admittedly euphonic and warm, but still has great presence, imaging, staging, and musicality. Euphonic and warm probably has less broad an appeal, I would guess. My small "inexpensive" Computer system is just under what some would say High end, but carefully put together to be musical and innocuous. I.e., sins of omission, not commission.

I can't remember Ray's components.
 
Last edited:
That's a hard thing to do right the first time. And I 2nd @MadMonk suggestion to go listen to as much different gear as you can only to realize it will sound different when set up in your room. Audiophiles are known to upgrade, so there is used on the market to save some money.

I never could afford the new stuff so I slowly took the vintage route and it took me 20 years to reach satisfaction. Slippery slope? Whoa boy!
 
Yeah, I know it's all a very personal thing. Just hoping to get a few suggestions.
 
Well, I'll give you a starting place. Spend a couple of years listening to sets of loudspeakers that are appropriate for your room. After you've found the ones you like best, find an amplifier that will drive them fairly easily. Then find a pre-amp that synergistically mates with your amp. Not too difficult, if you buy from the same manufacturer as your amp. Then the fun begins. Which type of front end will you concentrate your money on. Vinyl, CD, computer or some other not known to me? Be prepared to spend 5 to 15K, at least. N.B.: You will never achieve your goal. You will never be happy.
Good luck,

Doc
 
Last edited:
Devil Doc said:
Please note well: You will never be happy. You will never achieve your goal.
Good luck,

Doc
Click to expand...

I'm not an audiophile, but as a guitarist of 20+ years in search of the "perfect tone", a truer statement than this has never been uttered.
 
A few years ago I started back since I had a very large stack of vinyl and nothing to play it on. I went retro and got an AR turntable took it to a guy in NJ who made a new plinth, rega arm and a few other tweaks (http://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=14435&start=90) post 798. Found an older Marantz tuner and had that gone through and got a pair of rectilinear speakers that I had as a younger man. I have to go through the speakers and do some mods on them. Plus a set of custom speaker wires. The set up is pretty Spartan, but it gets the job done. Doc nailed it, I went retro and still managed to spend a few dollars. But I could do it again and go a different route. I do love those McIntosh amps, and a set of headphones.
 
One reason to possibly stay entry level. Get a taste and then see if you want to take it further. An entry level system can always go into the living room, or be a hand me down to one of the children, IF you catch Audiophilia Nervosa.
 
Speakers depend on the room you're in and your own personal preferences. I've owned speakers that were homebuilt, made by McIntosh (4 different pairs), Boston Acoustics, and ADS. My current pair is a set of Bob Crites modified Klipsch Cornwall that I like quite a bit. For now......;-). Only way to find what you like is to listen, listen, and listen some more. Always audition with your own music, and try to use amps at least similar in power and signature to what you have in mind. No sense of using 300 wpc of Bryston 4B (breathtakingly good amp, BTW) if what you have is a 35 wpc tube amp. Have fun....!!
 
My first system was purchased on a whim at a yard sale back in 1991. Sherwood receiver ($20) and JVC speakers ($10). After 20 years of upgrading when I found something I felt would be better, I finally decided I was done. I found some great deals during this time and actually made a good chunk of change selling used audio and records. So in reality it paid for the hobby and my current system. It was something I really enjoyed doing for many years.
 
I'll just toss this out there for consideration.....some will agree, some will disagree, but here's some hardware that's caught my eye as of late. Good for discussion, of nothing else....:cool:

Old school - Bob Latino is making upgraded clones of the old Dynaco tube amps and they have earned quite a reputation in the audio community. I'm drooling over one of his ST120 kits, but the assembled price is completely reasonable. If a guy wanted to go down the tube audio route, I think his amps and preamps are very worthy, very affordable, and well worth a look. I would not be surprised to find a ST120 here running my very efficient Bob Crites modified Klipsch speakers, one of these days:

http://www.tubes4hifi.com/home.html

Opinion time - and a word about power. Power is everything; power is clarity, depth, detail, and accuracy. Power is NOT just for volume...!! My good friend, the grammy nominated recording and mix engineer has some 400 WPC amps from Yamaha in his studio that are his preferred amps (no longer being made). He uses one for his tiny on the console speakers, and two more to bi-amp his custom Auspurger main monitors. Yes, 400 WPC to small 8" two way speakers. The Auspurgers have 15" TAD woofers, 3" TAD beryllium compression drivers for the high end, flat out to about 22 KHz. Why 400W for a 120W driver or a small 60 watt 8" two way speaker..?? If you ever have the fortune to hear such a system, you'll understand why. The clarity and transient response is breathtaking, even at conversational volume levels.

The tube amp guys will snicker and call BS on this. They have a valid argument......to a point. IMHO - the guys with these little esoteric and stupid expensive 2 or 3 watt amps are just....wrong. Even with speakers as efficient as Klipschorns, that's just not enough. With my Cornwall speakers, 60 WPC in a fine tube amp would be very, very interesting. But, make no mistake, IMHO with some speakers that's just not enough. For a 'new school' high end amp, you want at least 200 per side, for the reasons mentioned previously.

One man's opinion......

New school - I've had the fortune to listen to a number of amps over the years, in audiophile and studio (control room) settings. McIntosh amps are wonderful, but the prices as of late seem to have taken off to stupidville and beyond. If you can find a solid used MC2205 or MC2255 and a McIntosh preamp (C32, C33's are wonderful) you'd really have something special. I sold McIntosh for a bit over a decade, and I used to own a MC2205 and a C28 pre-amp. As an aside, I currently own a McIntosh C504 preamp and a MC502 power amp. They are small units, no longer made, and clearly violate my power rule (50 WPC). But, they are nice, and I'll keep them until something bigger comes along. With my hyper efficient Cornwall speakers, they are good, but I know there's more in there. Nothing a new Bryston wouldn't fix right up.....:D

If I were going to buy new the amps and preamps from Bryston are ones that have my eye as of late. The new 4B3 is an amazing amp. Bad news is that the prices have almost hit McIntosh territory. If you could find a 4Bsst2 or even a 4B....you'd really have something. Bryston amps have 25 year warranties and there are stories of amps being refurbished by the factory at little to no cost to the end user. Their BP6 pre-amp is as simple as it gets and sonically correct. If you want more knobs, I'd look for a good used McIntosh C32 or C33....they're out there and don't cost a fortune.

http://bryston.com/products/power_amps/4B-3.html

Wild card - There's a new generation of power amps, typically used for professional applications (PA / concert sound) that have gotten amazingly good. Crown has been doing traditional amps and preamps for years. I've worked in many, many studios that had Crown DC300A power amps running the mains...they've been at it for years and are a well respected brand. This new generation of switching power amps break most of the old school rules, and perform well outside their 'weight class' and compete quite favorably with amps that cost 5X and more of their cost. They are talked about in a couple of the AV forums I follow, people are typically flabbergasted with their performance. You can get a Crown XLS2500, with DSP based crossover and peak limiters included, with 44oW per channel into 8 ohms (775 into 4 ohms) for.....$399.00. Amazing.

https://smile.amazon.com/XLS-2500W-XOVER-LIMTR-120V/dp/B003HZV2OI/ref=sr_1_1

I'd think a Tubes4HiFi tube preamp, with a Crown XLS2500 power amp, would be an amazing system to try.....hint, hint.....:cool:

As I'm fond of saying, one man's opinion.......B.B.S.
 
Last edited:
BlindedByScience said:
I'll just toss this out there for consideration
Click to expand...
I'd say I mostly agree. I haven't heard a Bryston in at least 20 yrs. Build quality is superb. I don't know if they still use custom Plitron transformers, but that is why I went to Plitron when I built my Leach Low TIM amp. I switched it up a little from the online plans, and went Dual Mono (so 2 Plitron Transformers) and a soft start swx. Nice, well behaved amp with plenty of power. Only thing I really want to change on it is the binding posts.

Always been a fan of McIntosh. Just solid gear that sounds great. Reliable as hell too.

I am a big fan of the Dynaco 70, especially after Van Alstine got his hands on it. Lush and musical. I can't justify it, but I'd love to get a fully tubed AVA setup. Years ago, I really considered finding an old 70 and sending it in for him to mod. I had a Hafler DH220 years ago. Had Van Alstine modify it. Was a great amp. Some rich dude offered me stupid money for it (like 4X what I had in it), so I sold it to him. A company called Nobis did a Dynaco 70 inspired amp (Cantabile) that was heavily based on the original. A lovely sounding amp, but had some reliability issues. Even with reliability issues, I've only see a couple for sale over the years.

The older Crown amp I think your referring to was very good. I remember, about 20 years ago when Audiophiles discovered it. My cousin was the Eastern Regional Sales Manager for them, years ago and I could have gotten a good deal. Lotsa bang for the buck. Lots of headroom too. I'm not a big fan of the newer Class D stuff, yet, but it is getting there. Gobs of power. I'd like to hear it with some Maggies.

The low watt tube amp thing just doesn't do it for me. The tubes are crazy expensive. Best I've heard was a nearfield setup with custom horns. Midrange magic with meh bass and highs. That said, I'll add that any NOS tube I've heard was pretty epic compared to new production. I'm out, and wish every day I wasn't. Was great while it lasted.

Beryllium tweeters are epic.

I really like the old Yamaha gear. I'd love to get an old Yamaha 2010. Great amp.
 
I think you'd really be interested in the Tubes4HiFi amps. Their VTA driver board for the SC70 was their first product, been in production for about 28 years. It really opens these amps up. Their new amps, with their own transformers, modern passive components (caps, specifically) and decent tubes have amazing sound for the money.

I was / am a Hafler DH500 fan for years. Those are unfortunately getting a little on the old side, most weren't treated all that well and even operated without a cooling fan until they died. Have to say, though, they are also fantastic sounding amps.

I understand your skepticism about the Class D amps. I still have one foot in the skeptical boat, but if you listen with your ears, the headroom, transient response, and clarity are just amazing. Considering you could buy almost 14 of those Crowns for the cost of a new Bryston 4B3....they are well worth a try. Heck, A guy could buy one and if he didn't like it, you could turn it for almost what you paid for it. Read some of the reviews in the AV forums, even some of the recording studio forums. There are others, but specifically the Crown versions continue to surprise people in a very good way.

I'd love to try a Tubes4HiFi tube pre and one of those......
 
BlindedByScience said:
Tubes4HiFi amps
Click to expand...

Yea, on their page now. Going to give a good read after I cook dinner. (kid picked out a 1.29 lb ribeye - this should be interesting)

BlindedByScience said:
Considering you could buy almost 14 of those Crowns for the cost of a new Bryston 4B3
Click to expand...

Hah! A lot to be said for that. Sometimes, you gotta just accept "good enough". (whatever the hell that is ;))

BlindedByScience said:
I'd love to try a Tubes4HiFi tube pre and one of those......
Click to expand...

That might warm me up to the Class D. My biggest issue with them is that I didn't think they were as musical or palpable as what I currently have. That said, the Tubed pre might help, and hell, you could drive anything with the amp. Regardless, a no brainer for a lot of applications. I particularly like the idea of such a light amp. My PrimaLuna is like 70 lbs.
 
I tried using a 3 watt SET amp with my high efficiency Altec 17's (604-8g) speakers and while it sounded pretty good they left and I went back to my McIntosh MC40 monos. I missed the headroom. I have not upgraded for about 7 years, but if I did it would be the preamp.
 
My head hurts now! Thanks for all the info. Gotta read up and make sense of all this while visiting some high end stores.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top