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Newbie Pass 101

I threw some zingers in there on purpose....and both have been avoided like the plague, lol. Honestly, I don't pay attention to others reviews, I have to try for myself. Personally....I like the cigar. Now it's not out of the ballpark amazing...but it's not like smoking paper either. Take a look at the cello. It's been aging for awhile...nice and gooey, yellow and sealed shut. Mmmmmmmmmm.

Send that bad boy back home.

I would have liked to try the Strad, but I don't think I have anything in my humi that would be comparable in price to it. The Felipe from '98, I don't have anything age wise close to that. I think the oldest cigar in my humi is from 2006.

Just out of curiosity, what would the Felipe be price wise with the age on it? Maybe add $1.50 to the stick price?
 
The more I read on the Strad, the more I got confused... below is a quote from one website, and many others were close to this price range...

ndulgence has its price: An ultra-premium cigar of this pedigree comes at an expense that is not insignificant. Robusto Major cigars will be available for a suggested retail price of $32.00 per cigar, or $320.00 for a box containing ten of the ultra-premium cigars. The Lonsdale frontmark will sell for $30.00 per cigar, or $300.00 for a box of ten cigars. Stradivarius Churchill cigars will be available for a price of $32.00 per cigar or $320 for a box of ten cigars.

Then I seen how the wrapper was from a vintage crop in 1992, making the wrapper aged for 15 yrs! So this cigar was released in 2007.... which means its going on 5 years of age. I think with the wrapper being 15 yrs old, it would bump it up to that rarity teir of aged cigars?

My question would be this... How does one determine the cigars value if not with its original coffin ? Would it still be the same price or lesser in value? If it would be cheaper, what determines the "value" of the coffin?
 
If you're smoking the cigar, the coffin has no value, or better put, the lack of a coffin does not adversely affect the value of the cigar. If you're collecting the cigar, the lack of a coffin deeply impacts the value.
 
If you're smoking the cigar, the coffin has no value, or better put, the lack of a coffin does not adversely affect the value of the cigar. If you're collecting the cigar, the lack of a coffin deeply impacts the value.

I agree with your statement, but IMHO it has nothing to do with selling (or trading) the cigar. If you were trying to sell (or trade) the cigar (regardless of collecting or smoking), the coffin has to offer some sort of value, or at least that is what I would assume. Take for example the Opus "A" you have, IF you were going to sell it without the coffin would you adjust the price? Say for example instead of asking $25.00 you would ask $20.00.
 
I agree with your statement, but IMHO it has nothing to do with selling (or trading) the cigar. If you were trying to sell (or trade) the cigar (regardless of collecting or smoking), the coffin has to offer some sort of value, or at least that is what I would assume. Take for example the Opus "A" you have, IF you were going to sell it without the coffin would you adjust the price? Say for example instead of asking $25.00 you would ask $20.00.

Yes, I would sell it for less than with a coffin, simply because my market is smaller (only smokers, no collectors) and thus demand drops. Are you trying to determine the value of the cigar within the confines of this pass? If so, the smoking value of the cigar should be the only thing considered.

Thus, we arrive at- does the lack of a coffin affect the smoking value of the cigar?

It's actually a tough question... You'd also have to consider if the MSRP is the smoking price.
 
I too agree that the coffin must add value to the cigar. How much I guess would have usually have to be agreed upon by the parties involved in the B/S/T. As far as this pass goes, I think it would be best to leave it up to Jake to determine how the value is affected by the coffin being missing since it is so subjective and he was the original put. I think a good example of how the coffin affects the value would be the CFCF Opus 22 set. With an MSRP of $950, each cigar is $43.18, but without the coffin (and the second band) what makes them any different from a standard Opus of the same vitola with some age on it. They're the same exact blend. Most of their value comes in their collectibility. Part of that comes from the fact that they come in a cool ass coffin. Regardless of whether the recipient plans on smoking it or not, for them to retain their full collectible value and market value, each would need to be sold/traded the way it came from the manufacturer, coffin and all. This is definately an odd ball we should thank Jake for. As he says, there is a method to his madness :sign: . Trying to value this thing in a pass is much more difficult vs. a private party sale/trade.

I agree with your statement, but IMHO it has nothing to do with selling (or trading) the cigar. If you were trying to sell (or trade) the cigar (regardless of collecting or smoking), the coffin has to offer some sort of value, or at least that is what I would assume. Take for example the Opus "A" you have, IF you were going to sell it without the coffin would you adjust the price? Say for example instead of asking $25.00 you would ask $20.00.

Yes, I would sell it for less than with a coffin, simply because my market is smaller (only smokers, no collectors) and thus demand drops. Are you trying to determine the value of the cigar within the confines of this pass? If so, the smoking value of the cigar should be the only thing considered.

Thus, we arrive at- does the lack of a coffin affect the smoking value of the cigar?

It's actually a tough question... You'd also have to consider if the MSRP is the smoking price.

IMHO I would disagree. I don't think a cigar only has a "smoking value" just because its in a pass. I may want to take a cigar because its one that I have been wanting to add to my collection; not necessarily smoke anytime soon. I think value is value, regardless of whether I plan on smoking it or not.

Edit: spelling
 
I too agree that the coffin must add value to the cigar. How much I guess would have usually have to be agreed upon by the parties involved in the B/S/T. As far as this pass goes, I think it would be best to leave it up to Jake to determine how the value is affected by the coffin being missing since it is so subjective and he was the original put. I think a good example of how the coffin affects the value would be the CFCF Opus 22 set. With an MSRP of $950, each cigar is $43.18, but without the coffin (and the second band) what makes them any different from a standard Opus of the same vitola with some age on it. They're the same exact blend. Most of their value comes in their collectibility. Part of that comes from the fact that they come in a cool ass coffin. Regardless of whether the recipient plans on smoking it or not, for them to retain their full collectible value and market value, each would need to be sold/traded the way it came from the manufacturer, coffin and all. This is definately an odd ball we should thank Jake for. As he says, there is a method to his madness :sign: . Trying to value this thing in a pass is much more difficult vs. a private party sale/trade.

I agree with your statement, but IMHO it has nothing to do with selling (or trading) the cigar. If you were trying to sell (or trade) the cigar (regardless of collecting or smoking), the coffin has to offer some sort of value, or at least that is what I would assume. Take for example the Opus "A" you have, IF you were going to sell it without the coffin would you adjust the price? Say for example instead of asking $25.00 you would ask $20.00.

Yes, I would sell it for less than with a coffin, simply because my market is smaller (only smokers, no collectors) and thus demand drops. Are you trying to determine the value of the cigar within the confines of this pass? If so, the smoking value of the cigar should be the only thing considered.

Thus, we arrive at- does the lack of a coffin affect the smoking value of the cigar?

It's actually a tough question... You'd also have to consider if the MSRP is the smoking price.

IMHO I would disagree. I don't think a cigar only has a "smoking value" just because its in a pass. I may want to take a cigar because its one that I have been wanting to add to my collection; not necessarily smoke anytime soon. I think value is value, regardless of weather I plan on smoking it or not.

I was just typing this but you beat me to it!
 
IMHO I would disagree. I don't think a cigar only has a "smoking value" just because its in a pass. I may want to take a cigar because its one that I have been wanting to add to my collection; not necessarily smoke anytime soon. I think value is value, regardless of whether I plan on smoking it or not.

Edit: spelling

Normally I would agree but I made some assumptions, one of which is that a newbie pass is meant to put never hand sticks in the hands of newcomers so that they can try them. If my assumption is incorrect then I agree, the value is lower and the pass leader should determine the value (or someone should use their best judgement).
 
Mo, I still don't understand why you are involved in this thread for this pass? It has 2 more people to touch and then it is back on it's way to the pass creator. BigJake threw that stick and others in to challenge us. The pass was to be different and if you would have read the rules, which were the first post in this thread, and looked at the sticks you would not make the comment you made or any of the others. I can tell you that at least 20 smokes have been involved in this pass that would be considered to be "Hard to find" by myself. This is just my opinion. So don't take it for a gospel, what I see as HTF someone else might have 4 boxes "resting".

Jake will probably tell us how much each of the smokes we did not take are worth at the end. I had sticks in my humi worth what I thought was the value of the Stadivarious, but I did not want to part with them. They were either gifts, or a pain to find or whatever. Several are in coffins and some will probably be gifted to the important people in my life. This passes rules and everything were set up by BigJake and we all agreed to follow those when we signed up for it. This pass has gone exceptionally well and I think I speak for the majority of the pass members involved if you would just observe from this point forward until BigJake has the valuable contents back in his hands.

Thank you for your respect in advance.
 
My apologies, I was trying to promote constructive discussion about the value of the stick to make up for the previous misunderstanding. I thought it was going well, but I'll gladly move along.
 
My question would be this... How does one determine the cigars value if not with its original coffin ? Would it still be the same price or lesser in value? If it would be cheaper, what determines the "value" of the coffin?

For now, the cigars are not mine...they are the cigars of the passers. Everyone has a duty to help keep things in check, whether you are the first person or the last in the pass.. If you see something out of whack, or that you don't agree with, it's an obligation to say something so we can talk it through. With some cigars, the knowledge is black and white...with others, it can be subjective. It's rather simple. Everyone decides on what is fair for the grey areas or what a pass host leaves up to the masses for a majority vote.

Take the Felipe Gregorio for example under this scenario....and noo, it's not an expensive cigar. If for example I aged a $4 romeo y julieta for 20 years, would it be worth anything? No, or at least, not much. But, it would be an interesting smoking experience...that's for sure. There might be some appreciation...but this isn't a cigar that appreciates much in value under any circumstance. If I was a pass participant, for the sake of a pass, I might put $.50 - $1 of an over-put on it as a minimum. Then it's up to the pass participants and/ or host to decide whether they think it's fair. Sometimes you can't put an exact price when you consider these factors...you have to guesstimate. In all passes over puts are allowed, and sometimes they work out to your benefit. What I mean by that is that if I ballpark a cigar at $7, I might put a $9 or $10 cigar because I now have the opportunity to smoke something I never had the chance to before....and to be honest, trying to guess an exact value, well, I'd rather part with the extra $2-$3 than tackle that headache and discussion.

Now, the Stradivarius. LOL, I did this on purpose....just to see everyone go back and forth on it. The discussion is healthy, and inspires questions and ideas....exactly what I planned on. No, I didn't expect anyone to really take the cigar...but it certainly inspired the intended debates. For this example, I'll bring in a couple of other cigar lines into the discussion....like Gurkha and Graycliff. Gurkha and Graycliff cigars are often found WAY overpriced on B&M shelves. In fact, in almost all of the non-newbie passes I run, I strictly forbid these two cigars in the pass rules. What most B&M's get $15 for, many a smokers buy them for $4 on cigar bid. So how do you price them? Well, yes, there is a manufacturer suggested MSRP. HOWEVER, in Gurkha especially, the cost of putting these cigars on a B&M shelf is largely consumed in the exotic boxes and packaging, whereas they can ship them to cigars international without the boxes for online sales on the cheap. Therefore, a passer can buy them for $4 and up-trade through a pass (essentially profiteering). So we eliminate that option with cigars that have the highest possibility of facilitating that behavior. That being said, many will say a Stradivarius is in the same boat. Looks good, but can be had cheaply through sales at retailers just trying to get out of their investment by breaking even with them and selling them at cost. Consider that with it missing a coffin....and now you have a debate by passers on what a fair value should be.

Have I confused the $*** out of you yet? I hope so. As you can see....not all cigars are black and white. Some are very very grey. A more common example, some ISOMs that were produced between '99 and '01 went for 50% off due to terrible production and quality control issues. When those particular dates pop up in a pass for one of those cigars (a vitola that may still be produced) you can't in good consciousness mark that cigar at MSRP when you know it was bought cheaper, or even if bought at MSRP ( a counter argument offered by most people using them as a put) you know it's worth less.

Food for thought....we'll call this Newbie Pass 401...an advanced senior level class. lol.
 
That actually makes a ton of sense and I can appreciate what you were trying to demonstrate there.

I look at the MSRP of the Graycliff and wonder if anyone pays that price. There are decent ones in the line, but I'd never fork over the MSRP they claim.
 
Thank you Jake. You have been a tremendous pass host. This has been a huge education.
 
Wow, I took the evening off and look at what I missed.

SO, once the pass is in motion it literally is owned by the community versus the individual who sent it? I always figured the moderator would have the final say. Not that anyone would let a bad pass go through. Its in the interest of everyone on the pass to maintain the integrity of it. Good stuff.

And age is really a variable factor depending on the cigar. No hard and fast rules and open to interpretation.

Looking forward to my turn :)
 
And age is really a variable factor depending on the cigar. No hard and fast rules and open to interpretation.

This was/is my understanding as well. Rarity and age are two subjective measures of a cigars value versus price being somewhat objective. That's why I thought it is best to try and match price for price, rarity for rarity, and age for age.
 
And age is really a variable factor depending on the cigar. No hard and fast rules and open to interpretation.

This was/is my understanding as well. Rarity and age are two subjective measures of a cigars value versus price being somewhat objective. That's why I thought it is best to try and match price for price, rarity for rarity, and age for age.

Same here. I guess there is a lot to learn...
 
Jake, That was an amazing post and thanks for answering the question. . . Newbie Pass 401 for sure. :cool:
 
I think, I for one didn't want to test the water on the Strat. I just kinda pretended it wasn't there. Great lesson Jake.
 
Here is round 1 of my P/Ts...

Take - (14) Habanos Puros Seleccion Torpedo ($6-7ish - Based on Jake's estimation and what I could find for prices on other sizes)
Put - (70) Alec Bradley Tempus Terra Novo ($6.75 - Serious, Holts, SmokeInn, Uptown)

Take - (22) Perdomo Lot 23 Punta Gorda ($4.11 - Serious, Holts, SmokeInn, Uptown)
Put - (71) La Gloria Cubana Serie N ($4.26 - Serious, SmokeInn, Corona, Texcigars)

Take - (55) Oliva Cain F 550 Dark Natural ($5.86 - Serious, Holts, SmokeInn, Uptown)
Put - (72) RP Edge Sumatra Toro ($6.08 - Serious, SmokeInn, Uptown)

Take - (62) Padrom '64 PAM ($8.67 - Serious, Holts, SmokeInn, Uptown)
Put - (73) Monte Brown Label Churchill ($9.45 - Serious, Holts, SmokeInn, Uptown)


Let me know what you guys think about these...

All look good to me. Sorry I kind of forget you posted this with all of the action over the last 48 hours. lol.
 
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