Jump to content

CigarPass Cigar Forum & Community

Welcome to Cigar Pass, the internet's friendliest and most knowledgeable cigar forum. We have over a decade of useful cigar information, reviews and thousands of active members around the world. Join today and start making new cigar friends. We hope you enjoy our forum, and decide to make CP your home.

Sign In or Register to gain full access to our forum. By registering with us, you'll be able to discuss, share and private message with other members of our community. You'll also be able to instant message, join live video virtual herfs, and have your own photo gallery -- all free.


Photo

Xprinter Cuban Cigars Analysis


  • Please log in to reply
37 replies to this topic

#1 Ginseng

Ginseng

    Member

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,802 posts

Joined: 02-October 05

Posted 13 August 2006 - 08:06 PM

I was recently contact by new member xprinter as a result of this thread where he asks for assistance authenticating some cigars. After we exchanged a few PMs, I soon received a package of eight cigars for analysis. These were:

Upmann Monarch tubos
Partagas Serie P No. 2
Partagas Shorts from cab
Romeo y Julieta Belicosos
Bolivar Belicosos Finos
Cohiba Siglo VI (x2)
Cohiba Siglo VI tubos


Here are my observations in numbered list format.
1. The cigars were nicely constructed. Most were on the firm side but otherwise, the wrappers were clean, of good quality and applied with expertise. Looking good.

2. All dimensions measured out within acceptable tolerance ranges. The Siglo VI were 2mm long but that is not terribly bad. Still looking good.

3. All the bands were essentially indistinguishable from bands on authentic specimens. Good quality printing, excellent registration of colors and emboss. Die cut properly and centered. Rock on.

4. Smelled strange. There was an unusual and unpleasant bitter, leathery funk to all the cigars. I have never smelled a Havana that did not make me positively drool from the tobacco aroma but these did not smell right. The only cigars that smelled worse to me was a box of fake Bolivar Coronas. I still have this box and I still check in on it occasionally as a reference. Hmm...

5. Curiously uniform wrapper. Here is a photograph of six of these cigars. These sticks span 2004 and 2005 production, 5 different marcas, 4 different factories, 5 different vitolas with ring gauge from 42 to 52 and length from 4-3/8" to 7". But look at how similar these wrappers appear. In my experience, this is a level of uniformity that is better than that often found within a single box of Havanas. Something's fishy.
(IMG:http://i61.photobuck...terCigars02.jpg)

6. The serial number two-letter prefixes on the warranty seals for these boxes are beyond the range which I have personally recorded. xprinter's 04 boxes have prefixes of BM, DB, and ES (all produced in NOV!) For my eight 2004 boxes, the span is FD-HD. Xprinter's 05 box is DB and fourteen of my 2005 boxes span GI-HS.

I would feel a lot more comfortable if I had around 50 boxes from each year so I could draw a more complete picture of the distribution of prefix codes for those two years. As it stands, this observation merely suggests a potential mismatch. It's got me wondering.

7. The use of the discontinued EAR factory code on recent production is a big red flag. This code, signifying the La Corona factory was last seen on legitimate Habanos around the middle of 2002. It has been seen regularly on counterfeit goods starting 2003. I only have one EAR code box and it is a box of SCdLH La Fuerza from NOV01. Both of xprinter's EAR boxes are from 2004. Additionally, La Corona did not make either of the two marcas represented by the boxes xprinter has. Finally, it is somewhat unlikely that two boxes from the same factory, produced the same month would have prefixes as far apart as BM and DB. This is not a good sign.

8. Multiple structural and printing differences between the xprinter's Siglo VI tube and authentic specimens. I have had Sig VI tubes from three different vendors acquired over about a year and the construction of the tube cap and tube body are unlike the one provided by xprinter. Here are some photos. In the first photo, the legitimate cap uses 16-panel closure at the top while xprinter's specimen uses 8-panel. In the second photo, the authentic specimen uses 8-panel at the base of the tube while xprinter's specimen uses a cap-piece.
(IMG:http://i61.photobuck...Sig6TubeCap.jpg)
(IMG:http://i61.photobuck...6TubeBottom.jpg)

In the absence of definitive information from the manufacturer of the legitimate Cohiba tubes, I can't say for sure that this observation means anything in particular about the legitimacy of xprinter's specimens. I can only say that that tube is constructed differently from several others I know to be authentic.

Here are two photos of xprinter's tube on the left and one of my tubes on the right. Note the minute but discernible differences in the text/type, indian head, dot pattern, length of the cedar insert, and gold-tone joint piece. Curiouser and curiouser.
(IMG:http://i61.photobuck...Sig6Tubes01.jpg)
(IMG:http://i61.photobuck...Sig6Tubes02.jpg)

Overall, the the picture painted by these observations leads me to strongly suspect all the cigars to be counterfeit. I did not lay out every step of the analysis of every bit of data that xprinter provided but that more detailed examination suggests that these are almost certainly all fakes. And, when coupled with this quote on the method of procurement, my certainty level approaches 100%

(xprinter @ Aug 4 2006, 06:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
As far as my source goes everything has been good just hard to verify, I do know that he goes to cuba himself and some how gets them back to the US.



*************** Smoke test follows

I had the opportunity to smoke the Partagas Short from cab that xprinter sent me. Here is my account of that experience.

This cigar is well made with an expertly applied, silky colorado wrapper. Length and ring gauge are right on target. Sniffing the cigar prior to lighting reconfirmed an unusual leathery funk. There was a sweetness that just did not seem characteristic. I cut the cap and checked the draw which turned out to be slightly firm but reasonable. Light up was uneventful.

I've smoked a few Party Shorts in my time and right away, I noticed that this cigar lacked the signature spicy punch. Also lacking was the pronounced peppery character that asserts itself early on and then settles down into a rich background of medium heavy tobacco. In its place was a mellow, sweet earthiness. This was a mild cigar, mild-medium bodied with a subdued aroma and quite out of character with my experience of the real thing. As the cigar progressed, I made another important observation. The ash was bright white and tight. As some of you may already be aware, tight, bright white ashes are quite uncommon in Cuban cigars. Even the farm-rolled cigars from Vitasea exhibit the characteristic fluffy medium-dark gray, dappled ash that is far more common. Here is a photograph of the cigar and the first 1.25" of ash.
(IMG:http://i61.photobuck...rtyShorts01.jpg)

At this point, I have a strong suspicion that this cigar might not be what it was represented to be. But this remained a suspicion for only a little while longer. Thus far, it wasn't a terrible cigar, just rather nondescript and somewhat bland. At about the 1.5" mark, the cigar had still not developed in any meaningful way and so I decided to stop smoking, let it cool off, and dissect the stub. And that is when all doubt fled from my mind.

As you can see from the following photograph, the filler contains low quality, fragmentary tobacco. Basically, what we have here is a mixed-filler, "sandwich" style cigar. In an authentic totalmente a mano Havana cigar, every leaf is intact and either full, or half leaf. There is never chopped leaf in premium, totally hand made long-filler Cuban cigars. This clinched the diagnosis. Fugazi.
(IMG:http://i61.photobuck...rtyShorts02.jpg)

BTW, here is a shot of the foot of the cigar prior to lighting. You can see that the pattern of the bunching is suggestive of the type of construction found in some counterfeits. Moki illustrates this schematically on his Vitolas website, here. Genuine, high quality handmades will show a much less structured pattern that I call "Habana Chaos." The leaves are bunched to provide proper structure between ligero and seco/viso tobaccos and this means you won't see a heavy ring of concentrically laid leaves near the outer surface. Keep in mind that this is an observation that is only useful when the concentric-over-core structure is severe.
(IMG:http://i61.photobuck...rtyShorts03.jpg)

Sorry, Jim but you were sold counterfeits.

Wilkey

Edit: added fake Partagas Shorts analysis

This post has been edited by Ginseng: Aug 13 2006, 08:18 PM

#2 tone-ny

tone-ny

    I smoke therefore I am!

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,773 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:NY/NJ

Joined: 24-November 04

Posted 13 August 2006 - 08:44 PM

CSI CP! As always an insightful forensic review, thanks Wilkey.

#3 Infinity

Infinity

    Infinity - *Unbounded space, time, or quantity*

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,919 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:San Diego, CA

Joined: 07-February 06

Posted 13 August 2006 - 09:53 PM

Wow - it's amazing to watch this man at work.
Great reporting Wilkey! :thumbs:

Brian

#4 grateful1

grateful1

    Oh My!

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,729 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:CT

Joined: 06-February 06

Posted 13 August 2006 - 09:59 PM

Nice Work!!



I also noticed the gold band below the word 'Cohiba' on the tubos...the fake is solid form the word to the bottom, while the authentic has black and golg rings. Good to know!

#5 moki

moki

    el Presidente

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,396 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Rochester, NY USA

Joined: 16-December 03

Posted 13 August 2006 - 10:45 PM

Definitely fake.

#6 theorangeman

theorangeman

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,807 posts
  • Gender:Male

Joined: 05-September 05

Posted 14 August 2006 - 08:54 AM

VERY nice work, Wilkey! :thumbs:

#7 smokelaw1

smokelaw1

    Cigar Ambassador

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,344 posts
  • Location:West Hartford, CT

Joined: 08-August 05

Posted 14 August 2006 - 09:20 AM

Wilkey,
Out-freaking standing, my man. I am, once again, humbled by your knoweldge and precision, and unwavering devotion to getting tot he bottom of cigar mysteries. BRAVO.

Edit: What's with the huge freaking bug? Cicada?

Edited by smokelaw1, 14 August 2006 - 09:21 AM.


#8 Ginseng

Ginseng

    Member

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,802 posts

Joined: 02-October 05

Posted 14 August 2006 - 09:27 AM

Edit: What's with the huge freaking bug? Cicada?


Yup. Cicada season is in full swing now and sometimes I find dead ones belly up on my driveway. My daughter likes to pick them up and look at them. Then I send her inside to scare the dickens out of her mommy. :D

Wilkey

#9 Zeebra

Zeebra

    Daddy loves Padrón!

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,002 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Richmond Hill, Canada

Joined: 10-July 05

Posted 14 August 2006 - 09:48 AM

For a guy with dial-up access, you sure post alot of big pictures :laugh:

Great analysis as always, although I suspect you're a tad demented about cigars. Anyone seen Wilkey's stapler? :sign:

#10 junkman_56

junkman_56

    cigar smokin' caver

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,857 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Virginia

Joined: 26-January 05

Posted 14 August 2006 - 09:55 AM

Thanks you very much Ginseng for the detailed analysis of these cigars.
It’s just outstanding. :thumbs:

For Newbe's like myself, the analysis of counterfeit cigars is extremely helpful.

Thanks again Ginseng for the work you put into this.

#11 N2Advnture

N2Advnture

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,709 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Mid Atlantic

Joined: 10-October 05

Posted 14 August 2006 - 10:15 AM

Well done Wilkey :thumbs:

~M

#12 centurycigar

centurycigar

    Rare Stamp & Coin Dealer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 511 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Canada

Joined: 26-January 06

Posted 14 August 2006 - 10:22 AM

Impressive Wilkey.

#13 LSUSEEGAR

LSUSEEGAR

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 68 posts
  • Location:Baton Rouge, LA

Joined: 25-July 06

Posted 14 August 2006 - 11:00 AM

Very good post. Another newbie is greatful. I performed a similiar autopsy on some sticks I smoked the other night. Thankfully, they were legit, they sure tasted that way to. :love:

#14 Brickhouse

Brickhouse

    -- Wyatt --

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,767 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Glenarm, IL

Joined: 12-April 06

Posted 14 August 2006 - 11:04 AM

"Whatever life holds in store for me, I will never forget these words: "With great power comes great responsibility." This is my gift, my curse. Who am I? I'm Wilkey."

:thumbs:

#15 Black Plague

Black Plague

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 539 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Jeffersonville, IN

Joined: 11-May 06

Posted 14 August 2006 - 11:28 AM

Hope you didn't find that cicada in the cigar! :laugh:

#16 AVB

AVB

    Jesus of cool, I'm bad, I'm nationwide

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 20,433 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Near York, PA.

Joined: 14-November 03

Posted 14 August 2006 - 11:30 AM

Very systematic and entertaining to boot!

#17 sack

sack

    'From man's sweat and God's love, beer came to be.&#

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,858 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Chicagoland

Joined: 11-May 05

Posted 14 August 2006 - 11:53 AM

WHOA! It's like watching SHERLOCK HOLMES at work. You truly have an analytical mind, thanks for analysis lesson. :cool:

#18 lucasbuck

lucasbuck

    Sheriff Buck

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,909 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Trinity

Joined: 17-June 03

Posted 14 August 2006 - 02:02 PM

My hat's off to you Wilkey. Your analytical skills are superb.

#19 symyn

symyn

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 868 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Huntington Beach, CA

Joined: 19-July 05

Posted 14 August 2006 - 03:34 PM

Very well said! Excellent disection :)

#20 cigars&rum

cigars&rum

    "I changed my profile Rod"

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 301 posts
  • Gender:Male

Joined: 30-April 05

Posted 14 August 2006 - 06:08 PM

I also must say nicely done...the cicada was a nice touch also. Cicada's are cool, it just wouldn't be summer without them. Sorry to read you got burnt XPRINTER :( .


C&R




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users