209 replies to this topic

[insight]

So by this logic you would have to pay a new fee every time you host a pass? As it stands it has always been a one shot sign up fee.

[geldor1]

Yes.

I know that it has always been a one time fee and you're covered for any and all passes you host. I never really did think that was practical.

I feel it would be more like a regular insurance policy. You have to insure every vehicle you have and it's an ongoing payment to keep up your insurance.

Maybe a yearly fee for all passes a person hosts, but that doesn't seem like it would be fair.

I don't really know what the answer should be, just tossing out some ramdom thoughts..

Edited by geldor1, 20 August 2011 - 03:00 PM.

[khari]

We've got a ways to go, but I think Geldor1 is on the right track.

[BigJake6904]

IMO, not a big fan of paying into it a percentage value of every pass ran...that will significantly lower the number of passes per year, even moreso than they have already been the last 2-3 years.

It's a rare occasion that CPI needs to be used, I think a one-time buy in in an interest bearing account should be enough.

Just my .02.

[khari]

For argument's sake, let's say we do the one-time buy-in and a pass is lost next year, and it's one of the super high end passes. It could potentially wipe out CPI's coffers. How do we replenish?

[souldog]

I generally like the idea of paying the fee per pass, as it is like insuring a new car whenever you purchase one. I also see the point that this new rule would probably decrease the amount of passes per year, that is the downside.

We could start seeing guys add blurbs like "Joe Blartys Fun Pig Pass (not CPI insured)" and they would still run it just without the insurance. In that case, the pass-runner would have to seriously consider the cigars they put in as well as the peope that they trust to put into the passes.

I know I'm not a CPI member, but just some food for thought.

[ironpeddler]

Just another opinion...BUT, I'd like to mention a painful alternative.

I've read this whole thread and the single thought that keeps coming to mind is that CP has outgrown this type of a concept. With the cost of cigars as they are now-a-days, it's never going to cut the mustard with what's already in the Bank, sort of say.

Liquidation is an option...but take one of medium to higher end Pass and figure it's value...one lost Pass could potentially wipe out 7-8 years of donations/savings (if converted to cash).

It was a great idea in it's time...and who's time has passed (no pun intended!)

Whenever one of the members here hosts a Pass, there has always been a degree of risk. Rather than ask for a 'Buy In' for every new Pass, just have all the participants insure the package on each leg of it's journey....that's if tobacco products can be insured mind you. If you don't want to spend the extra money when shipping the package, don't participate in the Pass. Simple. The total cost of some these packages in astronomical and the risk should be shouldered by EVERY Pass participant.

Now, what to do with the cigars? Maybe we should sell/auction them off and give the money to Rod to help offset his cash out-of-pocket to keep CP going as best he can. What is the driving force behind all of your suggestions in trying to make this system work? Cigar Pass...without CP, we aren't having this discussion.

I know this has been a labor of love and represents some of the glue that connects the original members with the present crew...but I think it's time to put this concept out to pasture and put it to good use...let's let Rod make CP an even better place and further distance ourselves from the other Cigar Forums!

Like I said, just on man's opinion...and it may hurt, but maybe we should think in a whole new direction.

[insight]

If the fee is to be per pass it should be very low. The difference between cpi and real insurance is the insurer is making money from selling you regular insurance. In this instance we will have a continuously growing pool of money with minimal oversight. This is not a jab at the managers of cpi, just a general observation. Having that kind of money sitting around ( which has incidentally, never been drawn on) could get pretty tempting for someone to use if they got in a pinch or figured" hell, i can pay this doc bill then just reimburse the fund later". Like i said, just a general observation after ovverseeing the activities of a number of treasurers. Since cpi has never been used over the course of almost a decade, i am not sure having it contantly increase in value is a good thing, especially since most of the current members wont ever use it, as they nolonger run passes. I mean over the last couple years i have prob run as many passes as the rest of the board put together, which says something about the odds of this being put to use. I will caveat by saying i dont have a huge vested interest because i will be running at most one more pass after the abundance of disrespectful passing behavior on this board.

[geldor1]

If I not mistaken, someone in the past insured a pass with the shipping company they used and something happened to the pass. When they tried to submit a claim, they were told tobacco items were not covered. They couldn't prove the purchase and value of the contents of the pass.

So I don't think that is even an option.

Oh, they'll take your money for the insurance, but don't think they would even pay out if something happened.

[grateful1]

If the fee is to be per pass it should be very low. The difference between cpi and real insurance is the insurer is making money from selling you regular insurance. In this instance we will have a continuously growing pool of money with minimal oversight. This is not a jab at the managers of cpi, just a general observation. Having that kind of money sitting around ( which has incidentally, never been drawn on) could get pretty tempting for someone to use if they got in a pinch or figured" hell, i can pay this doc bill then just reimburse the fund later". Like i said, just a general observation after ovverseeing the activities of a number of treasurers. Since cpi has never been used over the course of almost a decade, i am not sure having it contantly increase in value is a good thing, especially since most of the current members wont ever use it, as they nolonger run passes. I mean over the last couple years i have prob run as many passes as the rest of the board put together, which says something about the odds of this being put to use. I will caveat by saying i dont have a huge vested interest because i will be running at most one more pass after the abundance of disrespectful passing behavior on this board.

WTF were you drinking when you typed this up!


If you're hunting for opinions...post the HTF's and Cubans' for sale...and send the rest to the troops.

Then have the money go right to CP.

or...

Stop with the banter and just keep things going the way they are - knowing that if you part of this and lose a pass...you get what you get.

[insight]

Phone posting imo

[BlindedByScience]

I know this has been a labor of love and represents some of the glue that connects the original members with the present crew...but I think it's time to put this concept out to pasture and put it to good use...let's let Rod make CP an even better place and further distance ourselves from the other Cigar Forums!

Like I said, just on man's opinion...and it may hurt, but maybe we should think in a whole new direction.

I think Gary has some good thoughts here.

This was a good idea but I think it's time has come and gone. The value of a typical pass these days could wipe the fund dry, with one claim. So I buy insurance and my pass containing a Padron Millenium gets stolen. How much are you going to compensate me?

Liquidate the cigars, donate the proceeds to Rod, move on from there.

JMHO....B.B.S.

Edited by BlindedByScience, 22 August 2011 - 05:01 PM.

[emodx]

How often do hosts require the box be insured through the shipping agent? If you insure a box for $3, how is it any different to send that to CPI? At least CPI will actually pay out if there is a lost pass.

Keeping money in an acct. is easy enough. Post balance online. Have monthly statements sent to a 2nd party for checks and balances. If you guys want a cash fund then the logistics are easy enough to figure out.

Let's face it, CPI is a trust placed upon another member. And if you don't trust another member with CPI then why would you trust someone else with the cigars you just sent them?

I'm not saying keeping CPI around is the only answer. Hell, liquidating could be viable. But I think asking a 3% fee is not unreasonable.

[BlindedByScience]

How often do hosts require the box be insured through the shipping agent? If you insure a box for $3, how is it any different to send that to CPI? At least CPI will actually pay out if there is a lost pass.

Keeping money in an acct. is easy enough. Post balance online. Have monthly statements sent to a 2nd party for checks and balances. If you guys want a cash fund then the logistics are easy enough to figure out.

Let's face it, CPI is a trust placed upon another member. And if you don't trust another member with CPI then why would you trust someone else with the cigars you just sent them?

I'm not saying keeping CPI around is the only answer. Hell, liquidating could be viable. But I think asking a 3% fee is not unreasonable.

...3%...?? My pass has a Padron Millenium, an OR Anejo, some six year old OpusX's, and a couple of other pretty much impossible to buy smokes in it.

What do I base my 3% on...??

[BigJake6904]

I don't think rarity in the equation will work at all....rather, (if we do continue with this) the going rate/ MSRP.

I do think it's fair if the total value of the pass is stated by the host before the pass begins. It would suck if someone did an over-put, putting a $70 Padron Mille for a $45 Opus 22, however, an over-put shouldn't be CPI's responsibility.

The purpose would be to insure the pass for its value when it began, CPI can't be responsible for anything else.

Additionally, the argument that the whole fund would be wiped out if one high end pass was lost/ stolen...well, that might be true....but it's such a rare occurence that I feel it'd be worth it to do the 3%.

[emodx]

I don't think rarity in the equation will work at all....rather, (if we do continue with this) the going rate/ MSRP.

I do think it's fair if the total value of the pass is stated by the host before the pass begins. It would suck if someone did an over-put, putting a $70 Padron Mille for a $45 Opus 22, however, an over-put shouldn't be CPI's responsibility.

The purpose would be to insure the pass for its value when it began, CPI can't be responsible for anything else.

Additionally, the argument that the whole fund would be wiped out if one high end pass was lost/ stolen...well, that might be true....but it's such a rare occurence that I feel it'd be worth it to do the 3%.

I agree on the 3% of MSRP b4 starting. In fact, I tend to agree with all of this.

[emodx]

Ok, sent an email to Rod asking him if he wants to keep CPI around or if he wants to liquidate. Once he decides we can formulate a plan.

-E

[Jonesy]

If we're going to go to the 3% "entry fee" per pass participant to cover a potentially lost pass, why not let the pass host collect the funds? This way if the pass is returned and the coverage is not needed, the 3% that was initially given by each passer, can be returned to them. Unless when you collect the 3%, you'll refund the money. There won't be a need for the CPI to keep growing due to the fact that liquidating the current stock should fund CPI enough (or close to enough)to cover the first pass that is done this way so that future funds should be able to be reimbursed to the passers after the pass has been safely returned.

[Rod]

My question is, however often have we had to dip into the CPI stash? If the answer is very rarely (as it should be), then perhaps the time has come to do away with CPI. Perhaps it would make more sense to insure the pass with real insurance from USPS, FedEX or UPS. It's really not that much more, and you can certainly require that all of your pass participants insure the pass up to the value you set.

My recommendation is to do away with it. Feel free to run a contest for the remaining CPI balance; perhaps those who have been here for at least 5 years AND have put into CPI. Just a thought...

[mmburtch]

perhaps those who have been here for at least 5 years AND have put into CPI. Just a thought...

Could you wait like 23 days?