147 replies to this topic

[Kingantz]

Even though I thought Ed was shady and was watching him closely before he was shown the door, I never really saw anything that firmly should place him on the list.

Do I think he knew what he was doing when he sent a Dominican H Uphman instead of a Cuban? ............ YES!

Can I prove he did? .............. NO!

Several other concerns, lack of follow through, but no hard evidence that would warrant him being added unless someone was to come forward with something solid.

John hit it right on. I did not like the way it went down with the Anejo/Opus buy, not at all. I'm the one that called it out, got Moki involved, and after finding the guy on the scumbag list, made the call to Ed telling him he/we were sold fakes. Upon explaining what I do for a living and that it would probably be wise to let me get directly involved with getting the money back, he refused. From that point, there was VERY little communication and what email was received was vague. I have to question if I were not pushing Ed every week, every month to pay us back, would he have?

Another huge problem I had with it was Ed posting on another forum still dealing in cigars and such. Of course, there's no hard proof such as receipts or anyone stating he did, however do I believe he was still buying and selling behind the scenes? I do. Something just didn't sit right with the whole thing IMO. But, there's no proof of anything I speculate and although it did take over six months, I did get my money back.

[collegestu]

There are several things I would like clarification on.

One thing that I have not really hear on this thread is how or what will determine who is put on the list and what criteria was used.

Secondly, who will be the "council", deciding authority to place people on the list.

And third, is it going to be etched in stone, or will the accused party have a opportunity to EVENTUALLY get them selves off the list.

I understand that finding someone guilty of a capital offense is reason to perminently keep a SB on the list, however, what about lesser infractions / crimes?

Overall, I think that having a master thread / wiki possesing all the information of a convicted duche bag / A - hole, is a necessity for our forum, no, society to strive and continue with the upheld values of the users here. We follow the rules and expect everyone else to follow, that is why Im still here, because I know I most likely will not get screwed like other forum allow, or at least turn a blind eye to.

IMHO hahaha

[insight]

The list has existed for years. This is NOT a CP list, it is a cigar board list (and primarily CF-centric in the past). In the past the list was moderated by Harris (TheMaster) but because of lack of availability/time that is changing. Your first and second question seem sort of the same...Currently there are 2/3 of a 'selection committee', including Hev and myself, but that is likely to change in the coming weeks to an anonymous 'judge(s)'. For now I am migrating nominees to the list in a pending section, although frankly the evidence against the new additions is staggering and majority opinion has certainly been to add them. The specifics of the new process and tools available will be detailed soon but everything is still under construction. Also there have been instances in the past when names were removed because the person either squared their business away or proved the allegations were excessive/unfounded. One of the ideas for the new format will be sectioning the list by category and weight of offense, as many agree that being extremely tardy on a trade is not the same as stealing a box pass is not the same as peddling fakes etc.

I guess the overarching point for today is don't be a scumbag asshat dickface and you won't get put on the list.

[collegestu]

I would totally agree. I just had no idea that it was so formed already. Honestly, I was thinking it was more of an informal thing. But now I see many already have given it great weight here. Thanks for everyone's hard work here. I know it is taking time out of your schedule to help out BOTL and I want you to know that I appreciated the thing you do just wanting to help out.

[CRQuarto]

I'm going to agree with Doc. Spivy is a scumbag, plain and simple. The guy royally screwed up on something huge, and as Greg said I don't believe that he would have done anything had he not been hounded. The whole situation just reeked of bullshit. Had he not been guilty of all those previous screwups as well, then I would have chalked the Anejo incident up to ignorance, not douchebaggery, however seeing as he had done shady shit prior the Anejo's really were the icing on the cake. Whether he's put on the list or not, I'd never trade nor even bother conversing with him or his little leg humping buddy.

[tone-ny]

You know my opinion of Spivy!

He crashed and burned, he did manage to pay back those that were in the Anejo deal. Only after much back and forth did he do this. He continues to be over at ICC where he keeps an extremely low profile.

He is "sponge worthy" ! YMMV

[jayro75]

You know my opinion of Spivy!

He crashed and burned, he did manage to pay back those that were in the Anejo deal. Only after much back and forth did he do this. He continues to be over at ICC where he keeps an extremely low profile.

He is "sponge worthy" ! YMMV

He only keeps a low profile there after the whole "High Rollers" PIF incident.

If it weren't for that it would be business as usual for him on the board vs. behind the scenes.

[tone-ny]

You know my opinion of Spivy!

He crashed and burned, he did manage to pay back those that were in the Anejo deal. Only after much back and forth did he do this. He continues to be over at ICC where he keeps an extremely low profile.

He is "sponge worthy" ! YMMV

He only keeps a low profile there after the whole "High Rollers" PIF incident.

If it weren't for that it would be business as usual for him on the board vs. behind the scenes.

That ain't happening! The only guy that may be dealing anything with him is the lawyer that left with him

[jayro75]

You know my opinion of Spivy!

He crashed and burned, he did manage to pay back those that were in the Anejo deal. Only after much back and forth did he do this. He continues to be over at ICC where he keeps an extremely low profile.

He is "sponge worthy" ! YMMV

He only keeps a low profile there after the whole "High Rollers" PIF incident.

If it weren't for that it would be business as usual for him on the board vs. behind the scenes.

That ain't happening! The only guy that may be dealing anything with him is the lawyer that left with him

That's good to know!

[insight]

Obviously I have my opinion as well, just trying to remain objective. I think everyone who cares knows my position and involvement with how things turned out for him on ICC, as well as the fallout from it....

There are endless people I would never trade with that are on my 'personal list' but don't belong on the scumbag list at large imo (I am not saying he DOESN'T belong on the list, just that before ANYONE goes on I expect some consensus). Ed's infractions largely took place here so this is a suitable place to discuss it.

[khari]

I agree. I think he should be on the list.

I do see Jfields' point though, which makes me wonder about what causes people's apprehension. Could it be that the name of the list is what makes people apprehensive about adding Spivy? Not everyone is willing to say he's a scumbag, but I believe we all can agree that would-be buyers should know a deal could potentially go south (especially one for HTF sticks) if they deal with him. If it was called the "buyer beware" list or something like that, wouldn't we all want his name on the list? Since the scumbag list is all we have to warn potential buyers, I believe he needs to be on it.

[The Black Cloud]

I guess the overarching point for today is don't be a scumbag asshat dickface and you won't get put on the list.

I think this should be put in bold type (ala the warnings in the ISOM forum) on the entry page to CP.

[insight]

I agree. I think he should be on the list.

I do see Jfields' point though, which makes me wonder about what causes people's apprehension. Could it be that the name of the list is what makes people apprehensive about adding Spivy? Not everyone is willing to say he's a scumbag, but I believe we all can agree that would-be buyers should know a deal could potentially go south (especially one for HTF sticks) if they deal with him. If it was called the "buyer beware" list or something like that, wouldn't we all want his name on the list? Since the scumbag list is all we have to warn potential buyers, I believe he needs to be on it.

In fact, the name of the list is 'The Scumbags and Bad Traders List". I think there will be great value from segregating the list by infraction so we can clearly identify WHY someone is on there.

[klipsch]

I had to look this up...

Douchebaggery;

1)The philosophy held by douchebags, holding that no one other than themselves (or perhaps their close associates) matters in the least bit, and thus that other human beings can and should be treated like complete excrement for little or no reason (and often for selfish reasons). Closely related to fascism, which has been practiced by control freaks such as Adolf Hitler.

2)The act of putting this philosophy into practice.

1)Some notable (historical and otherwise) adherents of douchebaggery: Josef Stalin, Mao Tse Tung, George W. Bush, Adolf Hitler, Andrew Jackson, George Lincoln Rockwell, Saddam Hussein, Osama bin Laden, Richard Nixon, Ronald Reagan

2)Examples of douchebaggery in practice, varying in scope and intensity (in the order of the above adherents): fascism; violent political oppression; winning an election through obvious fraud and subsequently invading Iraq based on admitted lies; the Holocaust; the genocide of the Native Americans; the founding of the American Nazi Party; more violent political oppression; declaring jihad on an entire country and slaughtering 3,000 innocent cubicle workers as part of it; declaring a War on Drugs based largely on the delusion that "every one of those goddamn bastards out to legalize marijuana is a Jew" (direct quote from President Richard Nixon); treating the Constitution and the natural environment as a set of obstacles to be overcome.

[Strayvector]

Nice_Ashh needs to be on the list. Fugger still pisses me off.

[jfields]

I agree. I think he should be on the list.

I do see Jfields' point though, which makes me wonder about what causes people's apprehension. Could it be that the name of the list is what makes people apprehensive about adding Spivy? Not everyone is willing to say he's a scumbag, but I believe we all can agree that would-be buyers should know a deal could potentially go south (especially one for HTF sticks) if they deal with him. If it was called the "buyer beware" list or something like that, wouldn't we all want his name on the list? Since the scumbag list is all we have to warn potential buyers, I believe he needs to be on it.

In fact, the name of the list is 'The Scumbags and Bad Traders List". I think there will be great value from segregating the list by infraction so we can clearly identify WHY someone is on there.

Then I think Ed should be on there with a caveat just as a warning to others as a buyer beware, sales can go south with this guy.

This would be a lot different than my original thinking of people who take money for a sale and never send the sticks. People who commit to trades, Secret Santa, PIF's, etc. and don't send.

Nice_Ashh needs to be on the list. Fugger still pisses me off.

Oh yeah! Forgot all about him skipping out on his auction donation Sam.

[tone-ny]

Obviously I have my opinion as well, just trying to remain objective. I think everyone who cares knows my position and involvement with how things turned out for him on ICC, as well as the fallout from it....

There are endless people I would never trade with that are on my 'personal list' but don't belong on the scumbag list at large imo (I am not saying he DOESN'T belong on the list, just that before ANYONE goes on I expect some consensus). Ed's infractions largely took place here so this is a suitable place to discuss it.

Hey Phil your opinion doesn't count you hang out with E!

[jayro75]

I had to look this up...

Douchebaggery;

1)The philosophy held by douchebags, holding that no one other than themselves (or perhaps their close associates) matters in the least bit, and thus that other human beings can and should be treated like complete excrement for little or no reason (and often for selfish reasons). Closely related to fascism, which has been practiced by control freaks such as Adolf Hitler.

2)The act of putting this philosophy into practice.

1)Some notable (historical and otherwise) adherents of douchebaggery: Josef Stalin, Mao Tse Tung, George W. Bush, Adolf Hitler, Andrew Jackson, George Lincoln Rockwell, Saddam Hussein, Osama bin Laden, Richard Nixon, Ronald Reagan

2)Examples of douchebaggery in practice, varying in scope and intensity (in the order of the above adherents): fascism; violent political oppression; winning an election through obvious fraud and subsequently invading Iraq based on admitted lies; the Holocaust; the genocide of the Native Americans; the founding of the American Nazi Party; more violent political oppression; declaring jihad on an entire country and slaughtering 3,000 innocent cubicle workers as part of it; declaring a War on Drugs based largely on the delusion that "every one of those goddamn bastards out to legalize marijuana is a Jew" (direct quote from President Richard Nixon); treating the Constitution and the natural environment as a set of obstacles to be overcome.

Walt I'm not really sure what this has to do with the discussion in this thread. There are actions by regular people that can be considered douchebaggery as well. They just won't be listed under the definition of the word. Some of those examples go way beyond being a douchebag. You're talking about genocide, jihad, and mass murder there. Not to mention some of the people listed as douchebags are based on obvious political opinion.


The discussion in this thread should be kept to possible scumbags and bad traders in the cigar community, imo.

Edited by jayro75, 18 March 2010 - 12:53 PM.

[souldog]

John hit it right on. I did not like the way it went down with the Anejo/Opus buy, not at all. I'm the one that called it out, got Moki involved, and after finding the guy on the scumbag list, made the call to Ed telling him he/we were sold fakes. Upon explaining what I do for a living and that it would probably be wise to let me get directly involved with getting the money back, he refused. From that point, there was VERY little communication and what email was received was vague. I have to question if I were not pushing Ed every week, every month to pay us back, would he have?

Another huge problem I had with it was Ed posting on another forum still dealing in cigars and such. Of course, there's no hard proof such as receipts or anyone stating he did, however do I believe he was still buying and selling behind the scenes? I do. Something just didn't sit right with the whole thing IMO. But, there's no proof of anything I speculate and although it did take over six months, I did get my money back.

With everything that happened, I agree he should be placed on the Scumbag List. What I found was sad is that several members went over to the board he is currently active on, repeatedly tried to inform them of what happened here, and were kindly told to go f*ck ourselves. The attitude of,
"Well it didn't happen HERE, so it doesn't matter, you're just stirring up drama," is foolish and close-minded. As far as my opinion, that board is a haven for asshats like Cigar Jesus and Dulooney.

[klipsch]

The whole situation just reeked of bullshit. Had he not been guilty of all those previous screwups as well, then I would have chalked the Anejo incident up to ignorance, not douchebaggery, however seeing as he had done shady shit prior the Anejo's really were the icing on the cake. Whether he's put on the list or not, I'd never trade nor even bother conversing with him or his little leg humping buddy.

Walt I'm not really sure what this has to do with the discussion in this thread. There are actions by regular people that can be considered douchebaggery as well. They just won't be listed under the definition of the word. Some of those examples go way beyond being a douchebag. You're talking about genocide, jihad, and mass murder there. Not to mention some of the people listed as douchebags are based on obvious political opinion.


The discussion in this thread should be kept to possible scumbags and bad traders in the cigar community, imo.

Jay,
That was more meant in jest after Charles' use of the word above. I didn't think it a real word...looked it up and posted the urban definition. Obviously there are threads where humor is more appropriate and universally accepted. If I had included his quote originally, it might have made more sense. My bad...

Edited by klipsch, 18 March 2010 - 01:36 PM.