147 replies to this topic

[grateful1]

KISS....post your reasons and facts and let the committee decide.

There is a committee, right?

[siriusstoogie]

I had charged everything about Spivy to being a high flier, buck fever albeit stupid FOG wanna be.....

UNTIL

He pulled the highend MAW/PIF at another board. Granting Tried granting a wish to Moki so that he can have his high-end wish fulfilled. This he did while making pitiful installments for his bad debts.

Therefore, I submit to the honorable keepers of the scumbag list....the glove fits.


As for MPS and Dulaney, I hope that they thoroughly enjoy the highend -rare cigars they have gotten from Ed during and since the Anejo OR debacle. Not having the same disposable income as you two is temporary but stupid is permanent.

Go ask....ahh never mind!

Best,

Joe

So the record is clear, Ed's granting of Moki's wish was denied on that forum as Ed hadn't made good on the GB gone bad. He never made a wish and never granted any either.

You are right Rob. I should have written that he "Tried granting". My apologies.

Edited by siriusstoogie, 20 March 2010 - 06:54 PM.

[CRQuarto]

Didn't I read somewhere that it took him a while to pay the money back, all the while making purchases?

Are you friggen kidding me? Seriously? Anyone have the answer to this?

[BobbyRitz]

Didn't I read somewhere that it took him a while to pay the money back, all the while making purchases?

Are you friggen kidding me? Seriously? Anyone have the answer to this?

What evidence is there to support this? It's easy to think he was continuing to buy, but where is the fire?

I believe this line of thinking came about when he attempted to grant Moki's wish of a Bolivar Especiales No. 2. The thought was this cigar was released after the GB gone bad had occurred.

I'm not trying to defend Ed, but in the interest of presenting facts 1) as previously stated, he wasn't able to grant that wish and 2) it cannot be assumed that one cigar means he purchased a full box or boxes.

There is a great deal of conjecture in this thread. If you do not have meaningful information which is true about Ed or any other individual being considered for the list, please refrain from posting. It clouds the facts and surely doesn't help the Committee.

EDIT: It's early...I was rather inartful with my original post.

Edited by BobbyRitz, 21 March 2010 - 04:51 AM.

[CRQuarto]

Didn't I read somewhere that it took him a while to pay the money back, all the while making purchases?

Are you friggen kidding me? Seriously? Anyone have the answer to this?

What evidence is there to support this? It's easy to "think" he was continuing to buy, but where is the fire?

I believe this thought came about when he attempted to grant Moki's wish of a Bolivar Especiales No. 2. The thinking at the time was this was a new cigar which was released after the GB gone bad had occurred.

I'm not trying to defend Ed, but 1) as previously stated, he wasn't able to grant that wish and 2) it cannot be assumed that one cigar means he purchased a full box or boxes.

There is a great deal of conjecture in this thread. If you do not have meaningful information which is true about Ed or any other individual being considered for the list, please refrain from posting. It doesn't help the Committee and surely clouds the facts.

Hence it being presented as a question, rather than a statement. While I don't doubt that he was/is still buying, you are correct in that facts or proof are something that lends credibility to suspicions, and helps in decision making. I really, really hope that no one procures proof of this, as it would really, really piss myself and a few others off, that I am sure of.

(Edit to attempt to fix some grammar. I'm tired, lemme 'lone.)

Edited by CRQuarto, 21 March 2010 - 04:33 AM.

[siriusstoogie]

I want to add that Spivy tried granting the wish but could not because he was rebuffed, spoken to in private and Moki himself declined the offer. Ed's obligation compass is a bit askewed. He was making installment payments to several people and at the same time he was "trying" to trade up. I submit that hubris plus ignorance plus hustling plus not really having the bankroll are strong argument to include him on the list...Scumbag/bad trader list.


My apologies to Rob is for the semantics, not for my argument to include Spivy.

Best,
Joe

[BobbyRitz]

I want to add that Spivy tried granting the wish but could not because he was rebuffed, spoken to in private and Moki himself declined the offer. Ed's obligation compass is a bit askewed. He was making installment payments to several people and at the same time he was "trying" to trade up. I submit that hubris plus ignorance plus hustling plus not really having the bankroll are strong argument to include him on the list...Scumbag/bad trader list.


My apologies to Rob is for the semantics, not for my argument to include Spivy.

Best,
Joe

No need to apologize to me, Joe.

We all know Spivy screwed up. Several of the folks who were actually screwed have provided their thoughts within this thread. I look at their comments with a keen eye as the only dog the rest of us have in this fight is to insure that our cigar community (here and elsewhere) does not allow or promote underhanded trading, selling, etc.

I'm sure Spivy didn't conspire to bilk Robbie, Jim and others out of a lot of $...but the fact remains that it ended terribly. I don't know the rules/regs regarding how a person becomes a card-carrying member of the Scumbag/Bad Trader List, but what is clear is the need for facts and less innuendo.

[BobbyRitz]

To be clear, my second and third paragraphs were not directed at Joe, but the community at large. Joe is one of the good guys.

[siriusstoogie]

Right on Rob!

As for MPS, I have edited the post.

[tone-ny]

My view continues to be he should be added to the list. He bought a bad deal to the members of Cigar Pass! He made good only after repeated prodding by me and those he owed money to. Sometimes weeks passed without communication and several e-mails, pms and phone calls went unanswered. When does this kind of behavior, become a good trader reputation?

He did all this wheeling and dealing even though I personally told him on several occasions to slow down. Yet everyone here wants to give him a pass because he finally made good for brokering a bogus deal. In business you go to jail for selling bogus goods, in China they execute individuals for the same. Has he learned his lesson from this? I can’t answer this, but to give him a flyer on this is wrong.

That is what is wrong here, you think everyone is good and nothing can go wrong. The moment someone screws the pooch you say, no so and so they wouldn’t do something like that. It happens and how people deal with it is as important as the individual who messes up.

Doc is right, end of story. You apologists need to realize that the next time he or someone else screws up it is your fault for not dealing with things as they happen and let stuff slide. There is a reason, Spivy and Dulaney got banned here and it wasn’t for their stellar behavior.

So Phil if he hasn’t been nominated I will write it up and submit it.

Edited by tone-ny, 22 March 2010 - 08:46 AM.

[bfreebern]

Put him in the list and move on. He screwed people over, period.

[insight]

The arguments here on both sides will be considered. Does anyone have links to the various debacles? I know I have the OR anejo one saved off somewhere but not sure about this HU trade thing.

[grateful1]

The arguments here on both sides will be considered. Does anyone have links to the various debacles? I know I have the OR anejo one saved off somewhere but not sure about this HU trade thing.

What!

You aren't taking the word of a guy who wears a tiara?

Don't be a hater phil!

Edited by grateful1, 22 March 2010 - 11:14 AM.

[sinnyc]

One thing you seem to be missing is that it's called the "Scumbag and Bad Trader List

I'm quoting this because it is key and should be kept front and center.

One need not have malicious intent to be labeled a Bad Trader (or, for that matter, a scumbag). Likewise, rectifying the problems caused by a bad trade or sale doesn't automatically make everything OK again or "wipe the slate clean": the fact remains that something unfortunate occurred. The purpose of this list is to make the community at large aware of those individuals who, willfully or not, caused all sorts of drama/voodoo/hassle. It's like a lighthouse warning all sailors that hazards be here.

- Tim

[AVB]

He should be on the list just because I had to read all this crap to find out if he should be on the list.

[beyond the band]

Ditto

He should be on the list just because I had to read all this crap to find out if he should be on the list.

[jfields]

The arguments here on both sides will be considered. Does anyone have links to the various debacles? I know I have the OR anejo one saved off somewhere but not sure about this HU trade thing.

MAWPIF Debacle

Ed screwed Tkoepp Debacle

Edited by jfields, 22 March 2010 - 03:50 PM.

[insight]

Thanks John, I will put something together for review soon.

[jfields]

I can give you more background on the Flushnutz MAWPIF thing if you need it, but sorry I deleted all of the PM's I believe.

[Strayvector]

Why not just add a "Trades Gone Bad" list and allow people to add links to it? This will allow people to go to one site for due diligence. You can add the very worst and repeat offenders to the "scum" list. Set the db to purge records after a set amount of time (say two years), and automatically add traders to the "scum" list when they have 3 or more records on the "bad trade" list. Having separate pages for bad trades and scum would negate the need to endlessly debate the demerits of one's trade to be included in the "scum" list, allows bad traders to work themselves off the lists, and a flag can be set for the truly heinous scums so that they can never be taken off the list. I, like most, would be very hesitant to enter into a trade with anyone even listed once, so I would think that the existence of such a "bad trade" list would be enough of deterrent for most.

Keep the db simple and it should take little time to develop this. Perhaps just 4 fields: trader/screen name, date, board, and link. Allow sort on the first 3 fields and you've got one great tool.