197 replies to this topic

[Shamrocker]

I think that conveys the message quite well.

I think it's horrible that your professor would pull you out of class, one for which you are paying tuition I might add, to lecture you on an extracurricular activity that you both happen to share. Not only is that appalingly unprofessional behavoiur, I'd say it's borderline on deserving a formal complaint to the Dean of your faculty. It would be an entirely different story if you weren't taking class seriously, showing up late or not at all, barely passing etc. and they were lecturing you about your classrom behaviour. It doesn't matter whether you're my teacher, boss, or anyone in a moderately superior position.... if it's outside the work or class environment and not relating to the reason you're the boss/teacher then there's no reason to think you have any right to lecture me. What if you and this prof disagree over political standpoints while taking part in a discussion in the cigar club activities. Will he think it's ok to pull you out of class and yell at you for voting for one party when he supports another?

[CRQuarto]

Not to be a jerk by any means, but I am assuming you want this letter to make an impression, so I will suggest that you read through it a couple times as there are some glaring grammar and spelling mistakes. I'd also keep the cursing out unless it is a direct quote. Other than that, I'd say you stated your feelings and position well. It's good to see there are still people in this world in our generation that have some constitution. Stick it to 'em.

[dataz722]

If you haven't already sent it you might want to consider removing "How dare you sir, how dare you!". I could be the only one, but to me that comes off almost as comical.

[MoeCizlak]

I agree with dataz, I would also leave out the threat to "make it your life's work etc". Keep your argument rational and stick to the facts. You have the high ground.

[grateful1]

I agree with dataz, I would also leave out the threat to "make it your life's work etc". Keep your argument rational and stick to the facts. You have the high ground.

This is the best thing to do...in many situations.

Emotions can cause 'tunnel vision'. By sticking to the facts and reasoning things out...well, the point gets across.

Great letter!



<and check the spelling!>

edit - You can also send that letter and the photo to the cigar manufacturers!!!

Edited by grateful1, 06 May 2010 - 08:57 AM.

[The Black Cloud]

Agreed with the others, I'd edit out the more melodramatic statements. Keep the letter cool, cohesive, and focused. That will get your point across much more effectively. You're in the right here, don't go shooting yourself in the foot with a letter that has too many emotions written into it.

Best of luck. I'm pulling for you.

[uptown_isy]

Great letter...and I agree with Gary and Charles' points. I also think you should file a complaint with the Dean.

[Salukis63]

If you haven't already sent it you might want to consider removing "How dare you sir, how dare you!". I could be the only one, but to me that comes off almost as comical.

Well it is almost the new catch phrase for Keith Olbermann....<STRIKE> BTW guys...I'm pretty sure Wkoti already sent this out so all we're doing now is monday morning QB'ing</STRIKE>. - EDIT: NEVER MIND!<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>

Edited by Salukis63, 06 May 2010 - 06:27 PM.

[wkoti]

Actually the email server was down all morning, so I was able to read this and notice the errors before I sent it out. I will send it out tomorrow morning when the servers are back up. Thanks everyone!

[souldog]

Agreed with the others, I'd edit out the more melodramatic statements. Keep the letter cool, cohesive, and focused. That will get your point across much more effectively.

I have to agree with this, as well as what Clint said. Save the preaching soapbox drama for your close buddies that know you and know when you're pissed off, not a chairman who holds the keys to your career's kingdom. He was wrong to threaten you, but also know he is a respected person for one reason or another, and most people do not respond well to what can be perceived as veiled threats and exclamations of "How dare you!"

Just try to come off as a professional. As stated before, the best way to do that is to think rationally, stick to the facts, and for god's sake check your spelling and grammar.

Best of luck Wizard King.

[denvercigarguy]

Hello to all who are following this discussion. My name is Patrick and I work at Capitol Cigars. First I want to apologize for the behavior of that particular employee, and I am glad you attempted to bring it to our attention. This matter was just now brought to my attention and I can tell you all that the kind of behavior reportedly displayed by this employee is in no way how we intend our valued customers to be treated. I don't know the whole story, but I can tell you all that we will investigate this further and that this employee will be made to understand that this type of behavior will not be tolerated. I am sorry, wkoti, that you had to endure the treatment you were given. We strive to create an inviting and friendly atmosphere, so this situation is definitely outside the norm. Please come in to our store and speak with either myself, or the other Patrick that works here and we can discuss this matter further.
I would also like to respond to the "mold" issue. I have been on the supply side of the premium cigar industry for 9 years and have had the good fortune to learn from some of the true masters in the production, care, and enjoyment of cigars. While it is possible that the cigars in question may have had mold growing on them, it is more likely that these cigars did, in fact, have plume forming on them. It has been my experience that mold and plume can be nearly indistinguishable from each other, even under close inspection with a magnifying glass. However, one way to be 100% sure you have plume and not mold is to carefully (so as not to damage the cigar) wipe the substance in question from the surface of the cigar - if it wipes away cleanly and leaves no trace behind it is plume; if it leaves a pit behind it is mold. Mold feeds off the tobacco, so it extends "roots" into the leaf, which is what leaves the telltale pit behind when it's wiped away. Plume forms harmlessly on the surface of the tobacco, so it of course leaves no damage behind when you wipe it off. It's been my experience that the method I just described is the ONLY sure way to determine if you have plume versus mold.
When I heard about this issue, the first thing I did was go into the humidor to see if I could locate the offending cigars. Now, I am not entirely sure I had the same cigars because the Rocky Patel Edge Toros I looked at (we don't have Churchills) were not located near the humidifier as was indicated in one of the posts. These Toros, however, also had a substance on them that one might think was mold. Upon close inspection, however, I determined that substance was in fact plume. I'm not saying that the cigars that started this whole mess were not moldy, but I can assure everyone that we monitor our cigars closely and if we were to find mold we would remove those cigars promptly and increase our diligence to make sure no other cigars develop the same problem. We would never try to sell moldy cigars by convincing our customers they have plume. We have not had a mold issue in our humidor and, as I said, work diligently to prevent it.
Contrary to what many believe, plume can form quite rapidly. Given the right combination of environment, some tobaccos will plume in a matter of months, if not weeks. I have seen cigars come from a box that just been shipped from the manufacturer with a significant amount of plume already formed on them. So it's not impossible that these cigars could have been pluming despite being boxed in November of 2009. One thing you haven't considered is that those cigars likely aged on a shelf in the factory for several months before being boxed. It's not the boxing date that's crucial here, it's the date the cigars were actually made.
Nonetheless, the issue was poorly handled by this particular employee and for that I am truly sorry! The main reason we welcome your cigar club to our store is the fact that many of you are new to this wonderful world of smoking fine cigars and the reason you were coming to us was to learn more about it. It is unconscionable to us that one of us would disparage one of your group for lack of experience. In fact, we have looked forward to and enjoyed having you all in the store and hoped to further our relationship. My hope is that this isolated incident will not sour that relationship. Come back to the store when you have the time and we will resolve this situation. It sounds as if it's already been blown way out of proportion already, but this by no means represents what we are about here at Capitol.

[souldog]

I thought this was a fair representation of the difference between mold and plume:

For Your Consideration

I can not seem to find Moki's article (best so far) on it anymore since he moved everything to GT.

Another Fair Post of Mold

A great post with some amazing photos from Wurm of cigars that have "plume" similar to the one's WKOTI posted...


Just for your consideration sir.

ETA: Best comparison ever. Below is WKOTI's photo of "plume" covered cigars. Below that are Wurm's photos of a cigar that has similar "plume" on it, but when placed under a 50,000 EUR microscope, obviously shows mold.

Fuzzy? Cigars aren't supposed to be fuzzy....



Oh no! Fugging mold!!

Hmmmm the company just bought a microscope camera for 50,000 euros, lets take the box to work...

Edited by souldog, 06 May 2010 - 06:12 PM.

[robbiex0r]

Hello to all who are following this discussion. My name is Patrick and I work at Capitol Cigars. First I want to apologize for the behavior of that particular employee, and I am glad you attempted to bring it to our attention. This matter was just now brought to my attention and I can tell you all that the kind of behavior reportedly displayed by this employee is in no way how we intend our valued customers to be treated. I don't know the whole story, but I can tell you all that we will investigate this further and that this employee will be made to understand that this type of behavior will not be tolerated. I am sorry, wkoti, that you had to endure the treatment you were given. We strive to create an inviting and friendly atmosphere, so this situation is definitely outside the norm. Please come in to our store and speak with either myself, or the other Patrick that works here and we can discuss this matter further.
I would also like to respond to the "mold" issue. I have been on the supply side of the premium cigar industry for 9 years and have had the good fortune to learn from some of the true masters in the production, care, and enjoyment of cigars. While it is possible that the cigars in question may have had mold growing on them, it is more likely that these cigars did, in fact, have plume forming on them. It has been my experience that mold and plume can be nearly indistinguishable from each other, even under close inspection with a magnifying glass. However, one way to be 100% sure you have plume and not mold is to carefully (so as not to damage the cigar) wipe the substance in question from the surface of the cigar - if it wipes away cleanly and leaves no trace behind it is plume; if it leaves a pit behind it is mold. Mold feeds off the tobacco, so it extends "roots" into the leaf, which is what leaves the telltale pit behind when it's wiped away. Plume forms harmlessly on the surface of the tobacco, so it of course leaves no damage behind when you wipe it off. It's been my experience that the method I just described is the ONLY sure way to determine if you have plume versus mold.
When I heard about this issue, the first thing I did was go into the humidor to see if I could locate the offending cigars. Now, I am not entirely sure I had the same cigars because the Rocky Patel Edge Toros I looked at (we don't have Churchills) were not located near the humidifier as was indicated in one of the posts. These Toros, however, also had a substance on them that one might think was mold. Upon close inspection, however, I determined that substance was in fact plume. I'm not saying that the cigars that started this whole mess were not moldy, but I can assure everyone that we monitor our cigars closely and if we were to find mold we would remove those cigars promptly and increase our diligence to make sure no other cigars develop the same problem. We would never try to sell moldy cigars by convincing our customers they have plume. We have not had a mold issue in our humidor and, as I said, work diligently to prevent it.
Contrary to what many believe, plume can form quite rapidly. Given the right combination of environment, some tobaccos will plume in a matter of months, if not weeks. I have seen cigars come from a box that just been shipped from the manufacturer with a significant amount of plume already formed on them. So it's not impossible that these cigars could have been pluming despite being boxed in November of 2009. One thing you haven't considered is that those cigars likely aged on a shelf in the factory for several months before being boxed. It's not the boxing date that's crucial here, it's the date the cigars were actually made.
Nonetheless, the issue was poorly handled by this particular employee and for that I am truly sorry! The main reason we welcome your cigar club to our store is the fact that many of you are new to this wonderful world of smoking fine cigars and the reason you were coming to us was to learn more about it. It is unconscionable to us that one of us would disparage one of your group for lack of experience. In fact, we have looked forward to and enjoyed having you all in the store and hoped to further our relationship. My hope is that this isolated incident will not sour that relationship. Come back to the store when you have the time and we will resolve this situation. It sounds as if it's already been blown way out of proportion already, but this by no means represents what we are about here at Capitol.

oh. thank you. thank you so much for this.

[Salukis63]

Wish I could view those photos souldog.... my comp here won't open them...

[Devil Doc]

Denvercigar guy, I suspect I've been smoking and collecting cigars longer than you've been alive. I can assure you and my friends here that you're full of shit.

Doc.

[wkoti]

Thank you Capitol cigars, I appreciate the response and I will be more than happy to get together with you and discuss this further. I'm sending a PM your way so we can get this handled properly and politely.

WKOTI

[tomthirtysix]

Weeks? That's rich.

[dataz722]

$20 says that was the jackass professor. How else would he have known about it being talked about on here unless he googles the company name on a daily basis. I might be a noob but I think I would side with the knowledge of the people on here that don't have a stake in any of this instead of someone that supposedly works for the company and could benefit from it.

[jayro75]

Did he really just try to convince us that cigars form plume in a matter of weeks?

[ironpeddler]

Contrary to what many believe, plume can form quite rapidly. Given the right combination of environment, some tobaccos will plume in a matter of months, if not weeks.

I have to admit that I have never seen plume like that on my aged cigars. The plume I have experienced was smaller, almost crystalline in nature with each spot more uniform in size....and formed much later than a few months or weeks after I bought them. In all my 35+ years of smoking cigars I thought fuzzy, hairy looking phenomenon like that was considered mold.

That's what I love about the world of cigars, you can learn something new every day.... ....thanks denvercigarguy, I think?