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My thoughts on recent passes

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#21 emodx

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 08:41 PM


I can remember being horrified if I couldn’t turn a pass the same day it showed up….sadly, in some well known cases, that ethic seems to have gone by the wayside. And, that’s disappointing.

I know for a fact that more than one long time member has communicated to me..”…never again…” and that is the communities loss.
Just my thoughts….B.B.S.


This is one of the reasons I don't host them anymore, but if I did, there would be no "Who wants to join a pass" post, it would be invite only.

I haven't been around as long as some of these other guys, but in my 4+ years or so, this community has taken a turn. Yes, we should expect turnover and with turnover comes change, but back in my early days, posts like these weren't necessary because there seemed to be a different "respect" level for the board, so to speak.

Some of the best passes ever were by invitation only. Some public and some private. But, being invited to the big dance was an honor and those that were invited didn't let the pass down.

On the flip side, what makes the invite only passes successful is the small modest passes that allow junior members cut their teeth. Sure, for those of us that have been smoking a while have a very nice cache of cigars.But sometimes it is in our best interest to start a modest pass in order to weed out the weeds and allow the cash crops to grow.

Even if we as FOG's don't host passes, I am sure there are different ways we can help cultivate the continuation of passes. Perhaps co-hosting passes. Either by having cigars in the mix with a new passer, or by guiding the new pass host, or simply by saying, "Hey, I am not going to be a passer in this one, but if anyone has any questions please feel free to ask me."

As FOG's we can either have ownership of the board, reminisce over the good old days, or bitch about how things suck now. I am all for the first option.

-E

#22 Jonesy

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 09:26 PM



I can remember being horrified if I couldn’t turn a pass the same day it showed up….sadly, in some well known cases, that ethic seems to have gone by the wayside. And, that’s disappointing.

I know for a fact that more than one long time member has communicated to me..”…never again…” and that is the communities loss.
Just my thoughts….B.B.S.


This is one of the reasons I don't host them anymore, but if I did, there would be no "Who wants to join a pass" post, it would be invite only.

I haven't been around as long as some of these other guys, but in my 4+ years or so, this community has taken a turn. Yes, we should expect turnover and with turnover comes change, but back in my early days, posts like these weren't necessary because there seemed to be a different "respect" level for the board, so to speak.

Some of the best passes ever were by invitation only. Some public and some private. But, being invited to the big dance was an honor and those that were invited didn't let the pass down.

On the flip side, what makes the invite only passes successful is the small modest passes that allow junior members cut their teeth. Sure, for those of us that have been smoking a while have a very nice cache of cigars.But sometimes it is in our best interest to start a modest pass in order to weed out the weeds and allow the cash crops to grow.

Even if we as FOG's don't host passes, I am sure there are different ways we can help cultivate the continuation of passes. Perhaps co-hosting passes. Either by having cigars in the mix with a new passer, or by guiding the new pass host, or simply by saying, "Hey, I am not going to be a passer in this one, but if anyone has any questions please feel free to ask me."

As FOG's we can either have ownership of the board, reminisce over the good old days, or bitch about how things suck now. I am all for the first option.

-E

I guess I should have been a little more clear with my statement. As far as a regular pass would be concerned, it would be by invite only. I've hosted two newbie passes and co-hosted another so I know the importance of them for the newer members. If it gets to the point where all are excluded but those by invite, CP might as well change it's name. I agree with your statement in whole though.

As far as your last statement, I think a little of each is needed every now and again. This way when we do reminisce or bitch, those that weren't around during those times, would know what it was like. A little history lesson, so to speak.

#23 BlindedByScience

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 10:47 PM

I will probably run my first pass in a month or two. I intend to call it the "Lead By Example" pass and it will be open to PM invite only. Purpose will be to pick a dozen or so folks that are completely trustworthy, know how to participate in a pass, and to "lead by example".

Maybe, just maybe, if some of the experienced passers show the new guys how it's done, we can enjoy an increase in pass activity. Or not. Dunno....but, I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is..... ;)

#24 Blue Dragon

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 10:22 AM

I will probably run my first pass in a month or two. I intend to call it the "Lead By Example" pass and it will be open to PM invite only. Purpose will be to pick a dozen or so folks that are completely trustworthy, know how to participate in a pass, and to "lead by example".

Maybe, just maybe, if some of the experienced passers show the new guys how it's done, we can enjoy an increase in pass activity. Or not. Dunno....but, I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is..... ;)

Sounds like a good idea. .. If it is truely a "Lead by Example" I think one piece that is missed by many is all of the communication that goes on behind the scenes during a pass. It may be worth considering how to make that communication posted as part of the pass thread, like sub-threads with links, so new individuals can see all of the communication between individuals. .. Maybe a separate thread where PM's could be quoted in a LbE Comm thread, and linked back to the main pass thread. .. Just a thought.

#25 souldog

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 03:05 PM

I like Corys idea...

Can't wait to see the pass happen Tom!

#26 BlindedByScience

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 03:08 PM


I will probably run my first pass in a month or two. I intend to call it the "Lead By Example" pass and it will be open to PM invite only. Purpose will be to pick a dozen or so folks that are completely trustworthy, know how to participate in a pass, and to "lead by example".

Maybe, just maybe, if some of the experienced passers show the new guys how it's done, we can enjoy an increase in pass activity. Or not. Dunno....but, I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is..... ;)

Sounds like a good idea. .. If it is truely a "Lead by Example" I think one piece that is missed by many is all of the communication that goes on behind the scenes during a pass......

Simple answer - in this pass there won't be any "communication behind the scenes". It'll all be out in the open for the forum to see.

#27 Blue Dragon

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 06:12 PM



I will probably run my first pass in a month or two. I intend to call it the "Lead By Example" pass and it will be open to PM invite only. Purpose will be to pick a dozen or so folks that are completely trustworthy, know how to participate in a pass, and to "lead by example".

Maybe, just maybe, if some of the experienced passers show the new guys how it's done, we can enjoy an increase in pass activity. Or not. Dunno....but, I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is..... ;)

Sounds like a good idea. .. If it is truely a "Lead by Example" I think one piece that is missed by many is all of the communication that goes on behind the scenes during a pass......

Simple answer - in this pass there won't be any "communication behind the scenes". It'll all be out in the open for the forum to see.

Cool; I'd just list it as one of the pass rules. My thought on the adjacent thread was to help cut down the clutter within the main thread. It's a great idea, and I hope people follow it, but I'd hate for them to get bogged down with side communication and have a tough time following the pass. ... Just a thought. And since it is your pass, you can choose to play how you wish. ... Hope to see you on Sunday night!

#28 Tall Paul

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Posted 07 September 2011 - 04:44 AM

At the rate this is going with you guys wanting to hand pick your pass participants by PM invite only new guys are never going to get a chance at this based on the rules. If you are a new member here and your join date is after May 2011 it is really going to be hard to convince some that they are worthy of joining a pass especially when your not even asking. Sounds like you are just going to send out invites to the members you know are worthy.

If this is the case then how would a new guy be able to finally get my feet wet in this grand evnt called Cigar Pass.

Just a thought,
Paul

#29 jfields

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Posted 07 September 2011 - 07:55 AM

What is being said is that for right now we need to take a step back and do a few invite only passes to let the new guys see how it's done and what is expected of the pass membership.

Unfortunately, it's one of those cases where a few bad apples ruin it for the rest of you making it difficult to get your feet wet. I'm sure someone will host an invite, or newbie pass at some point. Just don't expect it at the moment. :)

#30 Bsneed51

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Posted 07 September 2011 - 07:58 AM

At the rate this is going with you guys wanting to hand pick your pass participants by PM invite only new guys are never going to get a chance at this based on the rules. If you are a new member here and your join date is after May 2011 it is really going to be hard to convince some that they are worthy of joining a pass especially when your not even asking. Sounds like you are just going to send out invites to the members you know are worthy.

If this is the case then how would a new guy be able to finally get my feet wet in this grand evnt called Cigar Pass.

Just a thought,
Paul


The easiest way to earn yourself an invite into a pass is to prove yourself to be a trustworthy guy through your daily interaction on the board. This is meant as no offense to you, but if I'm putting hundreds or thousands of dollars of my cigars in someone else's hands, I need to know ahead of time that they are trustworthy, not likely to mess something up, and able to care for the package in a timely manner. If you've been a solid guy on the board for a while, who the board seems to trust, then you have a shot of getting an invite.

Read some of the recent pass threads, and look at when there seems to be issue in the pass and who the person is that the issue arises with. 95 times out of 100, I'll almost guarantee you it's someone in their first pass who doesn't understand all the rules, and doesn't communicate well enough to find out if they are doing things right. I would rather have someone flat out say to me "Hey, I would like to do your pass but I don't full understand how this works. Will you help me when my turn comes?" then to have someone act like they know it all and then drop the ball when it's their turn.

#31 Audi_kraut

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Posted 07 September 2011 - 08:14 AM

If this is the case then how would a new guy be able to finally get my feet wet in this grand evnt called Cigar Pass.

Just a thought,
Paul


There is more than one way to build rapport with the members of this community. Granted posting is largely the way we interact, I'd recommend going out to the CP herfs and actually meeting the members. Personally, I really want to make a trip to the Quad state herf next time around. Putting faces to names, even screen names goes a long way. Having a FOG who can vouch for you or even walk you through your first pass is a huge help, as I learned. More importantly, the invite only passes that the FOGs hold aren't for the faint of heart (your inventory better be up to snuff).

I like the idea of a newbie pass and hope to hold one some day, or maybe have the torch passed to me. But there really shouldn't be any rush to participate in a pass. Community and camaraderie first IMO.


yes.. I did come here to make new friend :p and thoroughly enjoy the face I get when I tell my wife that I hang out with people I met over the internet.

edit* Bsneed beat me to it...

"Hey, I would like to do your pass but I don't full understand how this works. Will you help me when my turn comes?" then to have someone act like they know it all and then drop the ball when it's their turn.


Edited by Audi_kraut, 07 September 2011 - 08:16 AM.


#32 broblues

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Posted 07 September 2011 - 09:50 AM

Guys, I’ve thought about this for some time and have hesitated to post this, but my thoughts are the time is now.

What is a pass, anyway? It’s first and foremost, trust. Trust as in, I’m sending you hundreds, maybe thousands of dollars of smokes and I want you to be a responsible, mature, stand up guy and treat this box of sticks like you’d treat them if they were yours. That means you don’t leave town before it arrives, you don't leave it on the porch, you don’t put the box away and get to it a week later, you don’t “lose it”, you don’t send it out without DC’s and clear address verification of where it’s going, you don’t send it out without checking the humidity and making the adjustments required. You DO communicate and post your P’s and T’s promptly. You make your P’s and T’s responsibility after checking with a couple sources for value, you turn that pass as quickly as is humanly possible…..in short, you’re a good brother and steward of the package that’s entrusted to you. I can remember being horrified if I couldn’t turn a pass the same day it showed up….sadly, in some well known cases, that ethic seems to have gone by the wayside. And, that’s disappointing.

I know for a fact that more than one long time member has communicated to me..”…never again…” and that is the communities loss. Passes are how we share sticks, share knowledge, share the good stuff and generally have a great time. It has turned into an ordeal, a hassle, a babysitting job that some of us aren’t into, anymore. And, that’s sad. Unfortunate, for a forum based on the pass as a venue for getting distant folks involved. Unfortunate, for the wonderful opportunity of us all pulling together around our common love, the leaf.

I have no interest in calling out specific folks, busting chops, kicking any asses, or starting another round of forum drama. I would just like folks to think about what an honor it is to be accepted into a pass, and what responsibilities that entails. If you’re not up to it, don’t throw you hat into the ring. Pretty simple. There are many examples of great passes and train wreck passes here in these forums. If you have any questions, the answers are there for you, both good and bad. All you have to do is ask…you won’t fail if you ask questions and are prompt, and responsible. Passes aren’t the time to show off, they are times to take and put value for value, rarity for rarity, CC for CC and NC for NC….period. It just ain’t rocket science. They are a great opportunity to have fun, make some new friends, try some sticks you haven’t had before, and share our common passion. Please don’t wreck it for everyone else.

Just my thoughts….B.B.S.


Being fairly new here, I have to say that I am a little leary of getting involved in a pass. So much of what I've read has been about horror stories. I really would love to get involved in passes with some of the guys here, but as B.B.S. has stated, in seemingly more and more passes, integrity comes into question. So, until I get to know the brothers here better, and they get to know me, I will sit on the sidelines, and hope the stories get better. ???

#33 Jonesy

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Posted 07 September 2011 - 12:06 PM

A passers participation is solely at the discretion of the host. Each host has the right to set up a pass and its' requirements how they see fit. The way I look at it is that if it's not a newbie pass, I would want each one of my passers to participate in at least two passes before I allow them in. Then I will look at how you handled yourself in those passes to determine whether or not I'll allow you in my pass.

As far as you new guys go, don't fret just yet over what's being discussed because the only way you can really learn is to participate in a newbie pass or watch a pass like B.B.S.'s where he'll only have experienced passers that are trustworthy to a T. Watching can gain you the insight to be able to successfully navigate through a newbie pass. I know there hasn't been much for you new guys to sign up for so I may revive the "Getting Your Feet Wet Pass" series sometime early next year for those of you that want a chance to learn how to properly participate in a pass. One of my stipulations may be that you must follow this upcoming pass to watch how it's done amongst the experienced guys.

#34 Franco593

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Posted 07 September 2011 - 12:12 PM

Looking forward to seeing you guys set a good example on how it's supposed to be done.

Great idea Tom...have fun with it. :thumbs:

#35 Tall Paul

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Posted 07 September 2011 - 02:19 PM


At the rate this is going with you guys wanting to hand pick your pass participants by PM invite only new guys are never going to get a chance at this based on the rules. If you are a new member here and your join date is after May 2011 it is really going to be hard to convince some that they are worthy of joining a pass especially when your not even asking. Sounds like you are just going to send out invites to the members you know are worthy.

If this is the case then how would a new guy be able to finally get my feet wet in this grand evnt called Cigar Pass.

Just a thought,
Paul


The easiest way to earn yourself an invite into a pass is to prove yourself to be a trustworthy guy through your daily interaction on the board. This is meant as no offense to you, but if I'm putting hundreds or thousands of dollars of my cigars in someone else's hands, I need to know ahead of time that they are trustworthy, not likely to mess something up, and able to care for the package in a timely manner. If you've been a solid guy on the board for a while, who the board seems to trust, then you have a shot of getting an invite.

Read some of the recent pass threads, and look at when there seems to be issue in the pass and who the person is that the issue arises with. 95 times out of 100, I'll almost guarantee you it's someone in their first pass who doesn't understand all the rules, and doesn't communicate well enough to find out if they are doing things right. I would rather have someone flat out say to me "Hey, I would like to do your pass but I don't full understand how this works. Will you help me when my turn comes?" then to have someone act like they know it all and then drop the ball when it's their turn.


If this is the case then how would a new guy be able to finally get my feet wet in this grand evnt called Cigar Pass.

Just a thought,
Paul


There is more than one way to build rapport with the members of this community. Granted posting is largely the way we interact, I'd recommend going out to the CP herfs and actually meeting the members. Personally, I really want to make a trip to the Quad state herf next time around. Putting faces to names, even screen names goes a long way. Having a FOG who can vouch for you or even walk you through your first pass is a huge help, as I learned. More importantly, the invite only passes that the FOGs hold aren't for the faint of heart (your inventory better be up to snuff).

I like the idea of a newbie pass and hope to hold one some day, or maybe have the torch passed to me. But there really shouldn't be any rush to participate in a pass. Community and camaraderie first IMO.


yes.. I did come here to make new friend :p and thoroughly enjoy the face I get when I tell my wife that I hang out with people I met over the internet.

edit* Bsneed beat me to it...

"Hey, I would like to do your pass but I don't full understand how this works. Will you help me when my turn comes?" then to have someone act like they know it all and then drop the ball when it's their turn.



Audi and Bsneed
I clearly understand your points about how to build a relationship on the boards other than passes that is not what I ment by my statement. I belive there are a few new guys here over that past couple months that seem to be fitting in well. Audi you and I started here just a month apart. My meaning on it is all the established members that have held passes for new guys seems like they are not liking the idea anymore. I can clearly understand fustration as to what has happened to recent passes and I have read most that have taken place and still following some like "Jays..." Reading these has helped me to undertand how a pass works and what has gone wrong. I belive in learning by doing. You didnt learn to ride a bike by reading a book right. I think the same goes here. As for the sticks you send out being hundreds and thousands of dollars this would obviuosly not be a pass for a new guy. I would understand clearly on a FOG holding a pass for members he picked out due to the extreme value of the sticks. I am simply stating it would be great to see one of the guys that has held passes before step up and hold a new guy pass. One that is not of extreme value where a guy like myself whos most expensive stick at the moment is a $13 value. Audi you participated in Jays pass so saying not to rush into one is hard to stand by no being here only a few months like myself? I am in no rush at all but if there was a newbie pass I would love to be part of it. BBS pass would not be a pass for a guy like me anyway. Exact reason I did not try to join Jays pass! Bsneed you say the main problem is always a new guy but the most recent passes I have read mainly Jays was not a new guys fault. Not looking for a back and forth here just stating one new guys opinon that it would be great to see some new guy passes being held.

A passers participation is solely at the discretion of the host. Each host has the right to set up a pass and its' requirements how they see fit. The way I look at it is that if it's not a newbie pass, I would want each one of my passers to participate in at least two passes before I allow them in. Then I will look at how you handled yourself in those passes to determine whether or not I'll allow you in my pass.

As far as you new guys go, don't fret just yet over what's being discussed because the only way you can really learn is to participate in a newbie pass or watch a pass like B.B.S.'s where he'll only have experienced passers that are trustworthy to a T. Watching can gain you the insight to be able to successfully navigate through a newbie pass. I know there hasn't been much for you new guys to sign up for so I may revive the "Getting Your Feet Wet Pass" series sometime early next year for those of you that want a chance to learn how to properly participate in a pass. One of my stipulations may be that you must follow this upcoming pass to watch how it's done amongst the experienced guys.


Jonesy
This is exactly what I ment just hoping there are some guys out there that are willing to give us new guys a chance still. I will keep my eye out for your "Getting your feet wet pass" hope to maybe a part of it when it comes around.

Thanks guys
Paul

Edited by Tall Paul, 07 September 2011 - 02:22 PM.


#36 grateful1

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Posted 07 September 2011 - 02:24 PM

I will probably run my first pass in a month or two. I intend to call it the "Lead By Example" pass and it will be open to PM invite only. Purpose will be to pick a dozen or so folks that are completely trustworthy, know how to participate in a pass, and to "lead by example".

Maybe, just maybe, if some of the experienced passers show the new guys how it's done, we can enjoy an increase in pass activity. Or not. Dunno....but, I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is..... ;)


Ooohhhh...pick me!


Arrrrgh!
;)

------------------------------------

Fella's....keep it simple.

If you are running a pass, make sure you know who is in it and they understand how to play along.
If you have a problem...call them out.

What's really changed?


(...other than phil's pass getting hi-jacked just 'because' it can be!)

#37 Bsneed51

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Posted 07 September 2011 - 02:29 PM

TP,
The F up in Jay's pass was not a new member of CP, but he was a first time pass participant. That is what I meant. He didn't seem to understand the rules or concept, but bulled forward with no communication and didn't ask for help. When I participated in my first few passes I asked members I respected and trusted for help.

Passes can be fun. They can also be stressful and a good way to sully your name. When a pass runs smooth its a great experience. When it doesn't it can sour you to the whole idea. I would also tell you new guys that I know many a person that couldn't wait to get in a pass, did it once, and will never do another one.

#38 BlindedByScience

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Posted 07 September 2011 - 02:35 PM

Guys, the other thing to consider is that it's the wrong time of year for a pass. It's a hundred frikkin' degress outside, and this is the Pacific Northwest...!! Not a great idea to ship sticks in this weather....

"Pass Season" dosen't really kick in for a couple months...be patient.

Ooohhhh...pick me!


Arrrrgh!
;)

....don't worry, Gary. I have something "special" for you in mind..... :p

#39 broblues

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Posted 07 September 2011 - 02:37 PM

That's a shame isn't it? Considering that's what this site is about. :blush:

#40 Audi_kraut

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Posted 07 September 2011 - 02:52 PM

Audi you participated in Jays pass so saying not to rush into one is hard to stand by no being here only a few months like myself? I am in no rush at all but if there was a newbie pass I would love to be part of it. BBS pass would not be a pass for a guy like me anyway. Exact reason I did not try to join Jays pass! Bsneed you say the main problem is always a new guy but the most recent passes I have read mainly Jays was not a new guys fault. Not looking for a back and forth here just stating one new guys opinon that it would be great to see some new guy passes being held.

Thanks guys
Paul


My statements are easy to stand by if you look at them as lessons learned. I rushed into that pass and learned that a lot goes into a pass from the host and that my stash was scarce compared to some of the sticks in the pass. I was fortunate enough to have picked up a number of sticks from members on this board just prior to that pass arriving and even then a few of the P/T's that I had proposed were questionable (not to mention the ones that were completely shot down before posting). By no means am I stating that I'm some shining example, just letting you know about my experience, the gamble Jay took on me, and my experience.

Heck, when I met with Jake he even stated that if I keep on the road I'm on there is a good chance I'd get burnt out.

I apologize if I sounded like I was on a soap-box, by no means do I consider myself a leg ahead of anyone here.




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