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Mold Vs. Plume..I really like these forums


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#1 rx2man

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 06:47 PM

Finally got my last humidor a few days ago and got it seasoned properly (I hope) so it was time to arrange cigars by wrapper type and strength. Was taking off tube tops on the Romeo Y Julieta Limitidas. On 2 of them I noticed mold or plume. found this post

"This is what I've learned from many years in the biz. Plume can begin to form in as little as 2 months. mold can set in, in as little as 2 days. Now one of the ways to help determine if you got plume or mold is mold will almost always grow right back after wiped off. So if you have the time wipe off the stick and put in a bag or whatever by ITSELF and in a few days if it is back then you have mold my friend. Also mold will not come off very easily.(most of the time). Where as plume will rub right off. Mold also will stain the wrapper. So if you wipe it off and there is a light or dark spot where the (stuff) was then you have mold."

The stuff rubbed right off and no stain on the cedar wrapper. I am going to put them in a separate bag though and hope it does not return.

from the description "Romeo y Julieta Edicion Limitada cigars are blended with a core of vintage Nicaraguan & Dominican longfillers"

does that mean its old enough to Plume???, I now wish I had not wipped it off.

and from part of the same reply

"Bloom or plume or WTF ever you want to call it is due to the oils in the cigar seeping through the wrapper and crystallizing on the wrapper. It typically takes years for this process to occur and many cigars wont do this at all. If I dug every cigar I have in my cabinet out and went through them all (including some ISOM's from the 60's) my guess is that I might, and I do repeat might, find one or two that have plume. Maybe. Possibly. It's really uncommon,which makes a cigar that has it rare and interesting.

Mold is 99 times out 100 three dimensional...plume is not. Mold will usually wipe off with a moist cloth....plume will usually not but I have seen thin layers of crystallized oils that were affected by wiping. Mold shows up in (usually) hairy little spots...plume show up as a hard to see sheen, a thin film on the wrapper.

In the years that I've been smoking, each and every time someone posts pics and says "...is this mold or plume..." it has been without a doubt mold. Every time. If you find spots on your cigars and are asking yourself "...gee, is this mold or plume..." let me help you out: It's mold. I have yet to walk into a B&M and find cigars with plume on them, but I sure have seen some furry boxes of moldy cigars that the owner then proudly said were "nicely aged and covered with plume" and I walked right out, never to return, every time."

Now I am guessing its mold. I am not sure which 2 cigars they were. I think I know but will have to pull a row to make sure What a PIA.

Edited by rx2man, 28 January 2012 - 07:01 PM.


#2 rx2man

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 07:36 PM

to summarize this whole thing I should not have wipped them off, if it is mold they get trashed if it was plume I should have left them alone.

#3 MilesMingusMonk

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 08:24 PM

Finally got my last humidor a few days ago and got it seasoned properly (I hope) so it was time to arrange cigars by wrapper type and strength. Was taking off tube tops on the Romeo Y Julieta Limitidas. On 2 of them I noticed mold or plume. found this post

"This is what I've learned from many years in the biz. Plume can begin to form in as little as 2 months. mold can set in, in as little as 2 days. Now one of the ways to help determine if you got plume or mold is mold will almost always grow right back after wiped off. So if you have the time wipe off the stick and put in a bag or whatever by ITSELF and in a few days if it is back then you have mold my friend. Also mold will not come off very easily.(most of the time). Where as plume will rub right off. Mold also will stain the wrapper. So if you wipe it off and there is a light or dark spot where the (stuff) was then you have mold."

The stuff rubbed right off and no stain on the cedar wrapper. I am going to put them in a separate bag though and hope it does not return.

from the description "Romeo y Julieta Edicion Limitada cigars are blended with a core of vintage Nicaraguan & Dominican longfillers"

does that mean its old enough to Plume???, I now wish I had not wipped it off.

and from part of the same reply

"Bloom or plume or WTF ever you want to call it is due to the oils in the cigar seeping through the wrapper and crystallizing on the wrapper. It typically takes years for this process to occur and many cigars wont do this at all. If I dug every cigar I have in my cabinet out and went through them all (including some ISOM's from the 60's) my guess is that I might, and I do repeat might, find one or two that have plume. Maybe. Possibly. It's really uncommon,which makes a cigar that has it rare and interesting.

Mold is 99 times out 100 three dimensional...plume is not. Mold will usually wipe off with a moist cloth....plume will usually not but I have seen thin layers of crystallized oils that were affected by wiping. Mold shows up in (usually) hairy little spots...plume show up as a hard to see sheen, a thin film on the wrapper.

In the years that I've been smoking, each and every time someone posts pics and says "...is this mold or plume..." it has been without a doubt mold. Every time. If you find spots on your cigars and are asking yourself "...gee, is this mold or plume..." let me help you out: It's mold. I have yet to walk into a B&M and find cigars with plume on them, but I sure have seen some furry boxes of moldy cigars that the owner then proudly said were "nicely aged and covered with plume" and I walked right out, never to return, every time."


Now I am guessing its mold. I am not sure which 2 cigars they were. I think I know but will have to pull a row to make sure What a PIA.




Some friendly advice. :thumbs:

Make sure you give proper credit and link to the original post or thread, especially in the case of Dapp the Cigar Bleacher. :laugh: Also, read this thread.





This is what I've learned from many years in the biz. Plume can begin to form in as little as 2 months. mold can set in, in as little as 2 days. Now one of the ways to help determine if you got plume or mold is mold will almost always grow right back after wiped off. So if you have the time wipe off the stick and put in a bag or whatever by ITSELF and in a few days if it is back then you have mold my friend. Also mold will not come off very easily.(most of the time). Where as plume will rub right off. Mold also will stain the wrapper. So if you wipe it off and there is a light or dark spot where the (stuff) was then you have mold. Now don't forget as long as the mold isn't on the foot, the cigar can be saved. Now I understand most people will just throw it away understandably, but if you have something rare or very expensive then you might want to read on. If the mold is only on the wrapper and not the foot you must first remove it from the rest of your stuff. Now gently wipe down the stick with something dry. Do your best to remove all visible mold. place the stick in a dry box(empty cigar box) with a humipak. Make sure you put the humipak or beads,gels any kind of sterile humidification device as to ensure the stick doesn't dry out. let it sit in the box for about two weeks, if the mold doesn't reappear then you in the clear. If however it does reappear then at this point repeat the same steps but this time take a micro fiber cloth and LIGHTLY moisten it with water treated with a VERY SMALL amount of bleach.About one cap for every gallon. Then take the cloth and gently wipe down the cigar. Now be sure to use a LIGHTLY moistened cloth. You don't want to wash the cigar, just remove the mold and kill the spores. Then place in the dry box again for another two weeks. This has always worked for me. I would suggest trying this on some cheapy sticks just so you can get the moisture lvl right on the cloth. And get the feel for what your doing. Now back to the topic..... Mold, when it grows, has a structure to it. If you have a magnifying glass you can see how the mold grows in shafts with pollups at the tip. Like a bunch of lolly pops strung together. Or even hair like. Plume on the other hand is more of a powder like substance. It is just the oils of the tobacco moving there way to the surface and then crystallizing on the wrapper. Its is usually more uniform then what I can see in the, pic but I have seen plume form in small areas like that. But again if you wipe it off and it leaves a stain on the wrapper then there is no question that you have mold. I hope this helps those in need. And if anyone can add or correct anything I put up please do.



Link to original post by Dapp






That is straight up MOLD! Even with the bad pic quality I could spot that a mile away. Bloom is not generally that pronounced and in giant clumps like that......If the white spots on your sticks make you second guess what it really is, it is probably bloom and not mold......

Guys, for the love of all things, this really is lots simpler than you are all trying to make it.

Bloom or plume or WTF ever you want to call it is due to the oils in the cigar seeping through the wrapper and crystallizing on the wrapper. It typically takes years for this process to occur and many cigars wont do this at all. If I dug every cigar I have in my cabinet out and went through them all (including some ISOM's from the 60's) my guess is that I might, and I do repeat might, find one or two that have plume. Maybe. Possibly. It's really uncommon,which makes a cigar that has it rare and interesting.

Mold is 99 times out 100 three dimensional...plume is not. Mold will usually wipe off with a moist cloth....plume will usually not but I have seen thin layers of crystallized oils that were affected by wiping. Mold shows up in (usually) hairy little spots...plume show up as a hard to see sheen, a thin film on the wrapper.

In the years that I've been smoking, each and every time someone posts pics and says "...is this mold or plume..." it has been without a doubt mold. Every time. If you find spots on your cigars and are asking yourself "...gee, is this mold or plume..." let me help you out: It's mold. I have yet to walk into a B&M and find cigars with plume on them, but I sure have seen some furry boxes of moldy cigars that the owner then proudly said were "nicely aged and covered with plume" and I walked right out, never to return, every time.

This is all pretty cut and dry. What to do about them is probably more open to opinion.

Wikipedia tells us that:

Molds....are fungi that grow in the form of multicellular filaments called hyphae.[1] Molds are considered to be microbes but microscopic fungi that grow as single cells are called yeasts. A connected network of these tubular branching hyphae has multiple, genetically identical nuclei and is considered a single organism, referred to as a colony.


The important wording in there is that mold typically grows in multicellular filaments. Mold may show up as a spot here or there, but the chances are quite good that even when dealing with surface spots, the growth has penetrated the wrapper and is well into the cigar. Tobacco is easily penetrated by these types of fungal infections. If you see mold on the foot of the cigar, you're done. Period. The very core of the cigar has been permeated and you're pretty much screwed. Yes, you can sometimes wipe surface spots off with a damp rag (I've used distilled water in past efforts) but you have to ask yourself what's inside the cigar that you can't see. A tiny spot is one thing; a wrapper that has hairy blotches all over it is probably toast. It's a matter of degree but usually I don't bother. I have tried to "repair" a cigar with mold spots on it in the past and the result is like smoking a well used pair of gym socks. Eeeccch....no thank you.

Now, this whole business of dilute bleach wiping a cigar. Chlorine has highest electron affinity and the third highest electronegativity of all the elements, which is a hoity toity way to say it's one hell of a powerful oxidizer and has a particular affinity for organic materials. That's why it's such a great disinfectant. Now, sure, a capful of bleach in a gallon of water is probably drinkable. Most literature that I could find on storing water recommended two to three drops per liter, so a capful per gallon might be a little strong but is in the ballpark.. But there are a couple of things to consider here. Most bleach is formulated for laundry use, and as such, often times has more in it than Chlorine in it. This will vary from product to product but it's worth noting. But, if you put bleach in water I can promise you that you'll be able to taste it. Yes, Chlorine is very volatile and will out gas quickly, but what did it do to the fragile tobacco leaves until it did? I mean, if it's powerful enough to kill the surface mold on contact, wouldn't you think it would also be powerful to at least change the wrapper somewhat? You know, the part of the cigar that is the majority of the taste of the cigar? No thank you.

My $00.02 is that if you really want to wipe your cigar wrapper, a little distilled water should do the trick. Then, promptly smoke the darn thing. Even if you clean it up on the outside, you have no way to know how deeply impinged the mold is into the body of the cigar. I'm as cheap as the next guy, but when it comes to cigars with any amount of mold at all, they get pitched. Period.

JMHO, YMMV, AFIK, OMG BBQ, etc......B.B.S.



Link to original post by BBS

#4 rx2man

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 08:55 PM

Thank you for pointing out the spelling issues and possibly grammar as well. I was not a writing major (obviously) but will strive to use proper spelling and etiguette from now on. Can I send posts to you prior to submitting them to be critiqued.....just kidding

#5 grateful1

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 09:41 PM

Thank you for pointing out the spelling issues and possibly grammar as well. I was not a writing major (obviously) but will strive to use proper spelling and etiguette from now on. Can I send posts to you prior to submitting them to be critiqued.....just kidding


Nah, send them to Devil Doc....he loves this stuff!

#6 mmburtch

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 10:30 PM

The stuff rubbed right off and no stain on the cedar wrapper.


Just to be clear, if it's on the cedar wrap it is definitely not plume. Just for the sake of clarification: You know you're not supposed to smoke the cedar, right?

#7 BlindedByScience

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 10:34 PM

The stuff rubbed right off and no stain on the cedar wrapper.

Just for the sake of clarification: You know you're not supposed to smoke the cedar, right?


....you're not....??.... :0

#8 YellowSmoke

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 10:45 PM


The stuff rubbed right off and no stain on the cedar wrapper.

Just for the sake of clarification: You know you're not supposed to smoke the cedar, right?


....you're not....??.... :0


You guys need to stop messing with me, I am getting confused...

#9 rx2man

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 11:02 PM

The stuff rubbed right off and no stain on the cedar wrapper.


Just to be clear, if it's on the cedar wrap it is definitely not plume. Just for the sake of clarification: You know you're not supposed to smoke the cedar, right?


Yes no smoking the cedar part. Well thats that then white mold. Oh well, white mold wont kill you and it wiped off so I got 2 cigars to smoke sooner than later!!!!!

#10 rx2man

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 02:12 PM

The stuff rubbed right off and no stain on the cedar wrapper.


Just to be clear, if it's on the cedar wrap it is definitely not plume. Just for the sake of clarification: You know you're not supposed to smoke the cedar, right?



mmburtch, I think you are demonstrating a extremely narrow minded approach to the cedar wrapper. :D It obviously comes down to personal preference as can seen in the following post. Links below for source credibility.. The cedar wrapper on or off has been discussed at great length, the pros and cons on cigarafficiando.

http://forums.cigaraficionado.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/9426054/m/6227096422

and someone obviously enjoying the wrapper on

http://www.flickr.com/photos/stirling_sd/336910883/


MilesMingusMonk, :0 per your advise I performed a complete spell check prior to posting so as not to offend our more educated forum members. :p In all seriousness I come here to relax and discuss cigars and spelling is not really important to me. I do realize though that others are here to relax as well and spelling and grammer issues could distract from that relaxation. So i will pay better attention.

Edited by rx2man, 29 January 2012 - 06:47 PM.


#11 mmburtch

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 07:47 PM

MilesMingusMonk, :0 per your advise I performed a complete spell check prior to posting so as not to offend our more educated forum members. :p In all seriousness I come here to relax and discuss cigars and spelling is not really important to me. I do realize though that others are here to relax as well and spelling and grammer issues could distract from that relaxation. So i will pay better attention.


The pre-edit version of this was hysterical. I nearly fell out of my chair. Fortunately, the chair and my ass have formed a symbiotic relationship.

#12 DePasta

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 08:41 PM

You are right MMbuttrch.....MilesMucusMonk was much better......wish I had saved it..... :whistling:

Edited by DePasta, 29 January 2012 - 08:41 PM.


#13 rx2man

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 09:35 PM

Dannnnng, once edited it does not exist. I am glad people have a sense of humor around here, thought I might get banned and I did not even talk about sources for that which we shall not talk about......

#14 DePasta

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 09:49 PM

Dannnnng, once edited it does not exist. I am glad people have a sense of humor around here, thought I might get banned and I did not even talk about sources for that which we shall not talk about......


I read that in this guys voice... I don't know why I just did....Posted Image

#15 coopsdeloops

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 03:48 PM

So this is from a box of Queen B's I bought a month ago (too young for plume? Could have been sitting at the store for a while?). It's only on the body and not on the foot, and is white and rubbed right off (plume?) but was under cedar (mold?). You guys have utterly confused me on this topic.

Posted Image
Posted Image
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#16 bluue13

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 03:55 PM

Mold. From what I've come to understand, and please correct me if I'm wrong anyone, plume will appear much more uniformly and almost like a haze around the whole stick. The fact that its under the cedar leads me in the direction of mold.

#17 Devil Doc

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 04:00 PM

I've been smoking cigars for 40 yrs. It's almost never, ever plume.

Doc

#18 BlindedByScience

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 04:09 PM

Some smart guy posted the following:

In the years that I've been smoking, each and every time someone posts pics and says "...is this mold or plume..." it has been without a doubt mold. Every time. If you find spots on your cigars and are asking yourself "...gee, is this mold or plume..." let me help you out: It's mold.

...yep.

#19 maduro89

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 04:49 PM

Has it ever been plume.. sad day.. :(

#20 Setharsis

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 08:30 PM

Has it ever been plume.. sad day.. :(


Actually, that's a good question. Does anyone have a picture of plume? I've searched on here but I just find a bunch of fuzzy sticks.




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