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Grab Bag Sales

Thanks for bringing this up. Definatly worth the conversation. Will read up that thread when I get a chance.
 
I cant see throwing out the whole orchard for only a few bad apples... This can be a lot of fun if handled correctly...
 
Let's discuss.
 
I think with such a small number of grab bags within a single sale, it's not a big deal and any buyer/dealer issues can be easily handled.  Case in point would be the newbie sampler (which I am WAY happy with), since it's a grab bag of 1 and it's personalized.
 
But at the same time, condoning too many grab bag sales (especially large scale grab bags) would not be in the best interest of CP.  It looks like value interpretation was the main issue and as the number of grab bags increase, interpretations will vary greatly.  If CP decides to condone grab bag sales, we should enact some basic rules for a grab bag and some way to mediate unsolvable disputes.  The pass it forward pass self-mediates by posting the pictures of the bag you receive but it follows the same spirit of a grab bag.  Some ideas would be:
 
1) Limit the number of bags per sale (1-5 bags)
2) List the number of cigars per bag
3) List the average value of each bag
4) List the minimum value/price paid of the cheapest stick in the entire sale
 
 
Oooooor...the simpler route is to just list what you want to sell.  If your "grab bag" was worth what people think it is, they will gladly pay you for it.  If you want to surprise someone, a hitchhiker stowaway that you don't list will get the job done.
 
Eric
 
CigSid said:
I cant see throwing out the whole orchard for only a few bad apples... This can be a lot of fun if handled correctly...
 
Let's discuss.
Click to expand...
 
Agreed.  If someone screws up, we'll deal with it.  No reason not to allow GB's overall, IMHO.
 
Just my perspective.  I've done a lot of blind 5'er trades/buys.  But I am careful with whom I get involved with. 
 
While it's "buyer beware" I also understand the point here is to look out for the community.
 
So I kind of take these on a case-by-case scenario, and if something happens, we handle it. 
 
Knowing Bill well, I don't have a problem with this one, if anything it'll be Bill who rips himself off :laugh:
 
Brickhouse said:
Just my perspective.  I've done a lot of blind 5'er trades/buys.  But I am careful with whom I get involved with. 
 
While it's "buyer beware" I also understand the point here is to look out for the community.
 
So I kind of take these on a case-by-case scenario, and if something happens, we handle it. 
 
Knowing Bill well, I don't have a problem with this one, if anything it'll be Bill who rips himself off :laugh:
Click to expand...
You know me too well... :laugh:
 
Brickhouse said:
Just my perspective.  I've done a lot of blind 5'er trades/buys.  But I am careful with whom I get involved with. 
 
While it's "buyer beware" I also understand the point here is to look out for the community.
 
So I kind of take these on a case-by-case scenario, and if something happens, we handle it. 
 
Knowing Bill well, I don't have a problem with this one, if anything it'll be Bill who rips himself off :laugh:
Click to expand...
 
On the mark, Wyatt....in both cases..... :thumbs:
 
Good points made, and I agree that blind trades and sales shouldn't be banned altogether.  We do currently have several going as described by Setharsis.  I think the best rule of thumb is let the buyer have some idea of what they can expect to get and give them no less.  As long as problems are dealt with as adults then the issues can be contained and resolved.
 
CigSid said:
 
Just my perspective.  I've done a lot of blind 5'er trades/buys.  But I am careful with whom I get involved with. 
 
While it's "buyer beware" I also understand the point here is to look out for the community.
 
So I kind of take these on a case-by-case scenario, and if something happens, we handle it. 
 
Knowing Bill well, I don't have a problem with this one, if anything it'll be Bill who rips himself off :laugh:
Click to expand...
You know me too well... :laugh:
 
Click to expand...
I still think Doc said it best: "Shut up and give him your money."
 
Gary, we've had trades go very, very bad.  Do we stop trading?  No, but bad guys are dealt with on a case by case basis.
 
We've had passes go very, very bad.  Do we stop passes?  No, but bad guys are dealt with on a case by case basis.
 
See the pattern here?
 
Just because one 'grab bag' deal was scrutinized, doesn't mean that they should be forbidden.  You may recall that not every one in Atuck's GB trade was unhappy.
 
Seems to be over reacting to me......
 
I'd say add no ghurka and no general cigar or Altadis type products. Defenitly no acids, but what do I know. Thoughts?
 
BlindedByScience said:
Gary, we've had trades go very, very bad.  Do we stop trading?  No, but bad guys are dealt with on a case by case basis.
 
We've had passes go very, very bad.  Do we stop passes?  No, but bad guys are dealt with on a case by case basis.
 
See the pattern here?
 
Just because one 'grab bag' deal was scrutinized, doesn't mean that they should be forbidden.  You may recall that not every one in Atuck's GB trade was unhappy.
 
Seems to be over reacting to me......
Click to expand...
Respectfully, in my opinion it is important to distinguish between atuck's blind grab bag method, and samplers that are simply unlisted but chosen carefully by the person making the offer. Some people on this thread may not be familiar with the scenario in question, in which a large stock of mixed singles of widely varying value and quality was broken up blindly into fivers with literally no discrimination whatsoever. I think the comparison some are making between the noob sampler trade and blind trades is not apt in this case. I agree with Gary, that generally it is best to either lay out the trade openly or, if for some reason that cannot be done, to use judgment and discretion in assembling a sampler that will satisfy the criteria being advertised. Otherwise don't make any representation whatsoever. As you recall atuck indicated that each fiver should average close to $50, and when many did not, a number of people felt ripped off.
 
BlindedByScience said:
Gary, we've had trades go very, very bad.  Do we stop trading?  No, but bad guys are dealt with on a case by case basis.
 
We've had passes go very, very bad.  Do we stop passes?  No, but bad guys are dealt with on a case by case basis.
 
See the pattern here?
 
Just because one 'grab bag' deal was scrutinized, doesn't mean that they should be forbidden.  You may recall that not every one in Atuck's GB trade was unhappy.
 
Seems to be over reacting to me......
Click to expand...
 
All of these (for the most part) have been requested to be stopped - unless Rod gave the ok.
 
Why is this up for discussion? 

Simply remove the 'expectation' and poof - there's a sale. 

If folks want to set up grab bags...join the NST. 
 
Juanote said:
 
Gary, we've had trades go very, very bad.  Do we stop trading?  No, but bad guys are dealt with on a case by case basis.
 
We've had passes go very, very bad.  Do we stop passes?  No, but bad guys are dealt with on a case by case basis.
 
See the pattern here?
 
Just because one 'grab bag' deal was scrutinized, doesn't mean that they should be forbidden.  You may recall that not every one in Atuck's GB trade was unhappy.
 
Seems to be over reacting to me......
Click to expand...
Respectfully, in my opinion it is important to distinguish between atuck's blind grab bag method, and samplers that are simply unlisted but chosen carefully by the person making the offer. Some people on this thread may not be familiar with the scenario in question, in which a large stock of mixed singles of widely varying value and quality was broken up blindly into fivers with literally no discrimination whatsoever. I think the comparison some are making between the noob sampler trade and blind trades is not apt in this case. I agree with Gary, that generally it is best to either lay out the trade openly or, if for some reason that cannot be done, to use judgment and discretion in assembling a sampler that will satisfy the criteria being advertised. Otherwise don't make any representation whatsoever. As you recall atuck indicated that each fiver should average close to $50, and when many did not, a number of people felt ripped off.
 
Click to expand...
 
Can't disagree with any of that.  Yes, Atuck's mess is a poor example.
 
I suppose the only way to solve this is to ask Rod to weigh in, and that will be that.
 
BlindedByScience said:
 
I cant see throwing out the whole orchard for only a few bad apples... This can be a lot of fun if handled correctly...
 
Let's discuss.
Click to expand...
 
Agreed.  If someone screws up, we'll deal with it.  No reason not to allow GB's overall, IMHO.
 
Click to expand...
 
I'll echo these statements. 
 
Rod said:
 
 


I cant see throwing out the whole orchard for only a few bad apples... This can be a lot of fun if handled correctly...
 
Let's discuss.
Click to expand...
 
Agreed.  If someone screws up, we'll deal with it.  No reason not to allow GB's overall, IMHO.
 
Click to expand...
 
I'll echo these statements. 
 


 
 
Times they are a changing.
 
There you have it.
 
Thank you Rod for your input in this matter.  While I do like the idea of grab bag or blind purchases I do think those against it have reasons with lots of merit.  It is important though to understand that when doing a blind purchase, you are buying the sellers reputation first and cigars second.  A seller with a reputation for quality would quickly lose it if they sent 100 yard gars for $50 unless it were so stated in the sale post even if the value exceeded the sale price.  With reputation being the currency of the board, that is a lot to lose for a small amount of financial gain.  It is similar to someone that gains a reputation of holding passes to better their own humidor.  They will quickly find themselves hosting a pass with no participants.  In the end, it is up to the seller to insure that whoever is on the receiving end doesn't feel like they were taken advantage of.
 
Over the years, I've traded thousands of dollars of products with many members here.  Rules are in place that control sales, and are quite effective.  The converse is that if someone is a dirtbag, there are no rules that will prevent someone from getting ripped off....once.  This forum values integrity and reputation above all else....and I don't see anyone willing to burn their rep over a few cigars.  We don't tolerate "drive by" sellers, and the reasons for that are obvious.
 
Just like passes, just like sales and trades.....if someone screws up, they'll be handled and the board will make the other party whole.  That's how it's been for long before I joined, seems to work pretty well.
 
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