Miami Cubano said:
The point here is not about legalities, but rather ethics.
I see the difference here, MC, and agree with you that I didn't take that into account when making my analogy.
AVB: I'm addressing your post out of order because my reply makes more sense this way, at least in my possibly skewed mind.
It is illicit, you didn't pay any tax on it either so by your own reasoning you should have a problem buying and/or reselling the product without having ethics enter into the picture at all.
Good point. I should note that I'm still not going to buy tax stamps for the cigars in my humi or the whisky in my cupboard (all of which were purchased out of state). :whistling: I suppose I should have said "illicit enough to bother me" or "illicit in a manner which I personally find grave" or something. :laugh: I thought it was clear from my earlier post that I didn't consider this to be a real issue, but maybe it was not.
I didn't say anything about buying the beer nor did I compare it to cigars. Your argument is fallacious in that it is allowed to buy and sell Cuban cigars for most of the world and the product is available. This beer is not available for the world and is requested by the manufacturer it not be resold. Not the same as cigars at all. I'm sure the legal folks here could explain that the intended use as stated implies some responsibility for the buyer.
I fail to see what difference it makes that it is legal for the rest of the world to buy ISOMs. I admit that the analogy was poor, but I think more for MC's reasons. The fact that Canadians can buy ISOMs does not make it less illegal for me to do so. And the intended use (i.e. personal consumption) arguably creates an issue, but only between the brewery and the original buyer. I say arguably because intended use (which applies more to product liability) isn't really the issue, it's more of a contract situation. I'll admit I did not have any firsthand information on the resale policy of Westvleteren, but in looking at their website it states: "Every customer promises not to sell the beer to others." So, when someone does resell the beer, they break that promise (i.e. breach their contract with the brewery).
Keeping that in mind, were I to buy the beer from someone other than the brewery, now that I know they had to promise not to sell it, this creates more of an ethical quandary. Whether I would go through with this depends on the particulars, then. Do I think it would be unethical to pay $450 for a case? Yes. On the opposite end, if my father/sibling/cousin/best friend visited the brewery and offered to sell me some of the beer he brought back for precisely what he paid, do I think that would be unethical? No. I admit that this is technically a violation of the promise not to resell, but the way I see it the spirit of the promise is still upheld: the monks sell their product in limited quantities at a very low price, in keeping with their traditions and (I presume) sharing the joy they find in their product with others. No one is making a profit on the backs of the monks in this second example, and I don't see it as much of a problem.
Now, most situations fall somewhere in between these two examples (and most are probably closer to the first). The real ethical questions arise when more is charged than was paid to the brewery, but not outrageously more. Is it fair to charge for the costs of transporting the beer here? I think so. Is it fair to charge an additional markup (i.e. profit)? Uhm, I think this is the rub. The brewery could clearly charge more for its beer. It doesn't because (a) it doesn't need the extra money, and (b) (again presumption on my part) the monks want to share the joy they find in their product with others, including (and possibly especially) those who cannot afford to pay extravagant prices. So if someone resells the beer for a profit, they are violating the spirit in which it was brewed.
With all that said, I would be perfectly willing to participate in a group buy of the beer on the above terms (i.e. there is no profiteering going on). The commitment made by the monks that brew the beer is beyond admirable and it should not be dishonored by helping someone make money off of their work.
P.S. That reply ended up being a lot more work than I expected to put in when I started! Thanks for making me think you guys. I manage to get through many days without doing any of that.
