The Empire Strikes Back...the pass

[bully1875]

Stick & Pass list has been updated.

We can keep this issue open for discussion if anyone else feel's to continue with it. Just let me know..

 

[Jonesy]

By no means have I been offended by any of this--I simply wanted to tease out the issue a little.

After a bit more thought, I guess my main concern was with the precedent it sets. Not in the sense that we'll all suddenly feel obligated to nearly double up the prices of our takes, but rather that totally blowing your takes out of the water on three of your four exchanges is so unremarkable, pedestrian, and perfectly typical that it is not at all worthy of any discussion or debate.

I know that the peculiarities which made for difficult matching on the desired sticks is at the root of all this, so I acknowledge that while unlikely (and probably compounded by the fact that I'm still new to the game), it would be really frustrating for me if I were the last person to receive the pass and all I had to take from were $40/$50/$60+ cigars.

Let me expand on this issue as I'm certain we went over it in my newbie pass you were in. In most passes you are taught to make your puts equal to or greater (not meaning double up the value) than your take. This is a general rule we all use. When you start to factor in rarity, you will normally always have to go up in value on your put because not always are you going to reach it in rarity factor. As far as when it comes to making a put for a CFCF Opus stick that now has a MSRP of around ~$45, you're hard pressed to find another cigar that has a MSRP that's near it so you get as close as you can without going under. Naturally 99 out of 100 times a pass is going to get greater in value during the course of the pass....you just have to be prepared for that.

Hope this helps.

 

[The Green Monkey]

I didn't expect that it would hit that point, I just thought I'd clarify what it was that caught my attention. Maybe such broad overshooting is more commonplace than I had assumed--after all, this is only my fourth pass so it seemed unusual to me having never seen it before...

It's too bad this has never been discussed before

Was it discussed before in this pass? I must have missed it somehow--would you be so kind as to point me in the right direction?

I acknowledged in my initial post on the topic that I'm sure this has come up before, but that I didn't think that previous passes were all that good of a barometer on how to proceed with since every pass has different hosts, different rules, different people, etc.--just look at the CC for NC aspect...

 

[Jonesy]

I didn't expect that it would hit that point, I just thought I'd clarify what it was that caught my attention. Maybe such broad overshooting is more commonplace than I had assumed--after all, this is only my fourth pass so it seemed unusual to me having never seen it before...

It's too bad this has never been discussed before

Was it discussed before in this pass? I must have missed it somehow--would you be so kind as to point me in the right direction?

I acknowledged in my initial post on the topic that I'm sure this has come up before, but that I didn't think that previous passes were all that good of a barometer on how to proceed with since every pass has different hosts, different rules, different people, etc.--just look at the CC for NC aspect...

Most passes use the same general rules. Very few go with the CC/NC trades because of the problems it can produce.

 

[The Green Monkey]

I understand that the pass will necessarily have to increase in overall value from start to finish--it was simply the scale (3 of 4 exchanges with an average bump of $12) that caught my eye. If everyone doubled up on 3/4 of their puts, we'd have a hairy situation.

I don't mean to seem like I'm still questioning any of this or that I'm not picking up on it--I get it--I'm simply explaining (and perhaps belaboring the point) where I was coming from initially.

 

[bully1875]

I understand that the pass will necessarily have to increase in overall value from start to finish--it was simply the scale (3 of 4 exchanges with an average bump of $12) that caught my eye. If everyone doubled up on 3/4 of their puts, we'd have a hairy situation.

I don't mean to seem like I'm still questioning any of this or that I'm not picking up on it--I get it--I'm simply explaining (and perhaps belaboring the point) where I was coming from initially.

It's a good thing that you bring it up. I really don't want any unanswered questions. BTW I am still a newb myself. I look up to everyone else here that have done their own passes and from my previous passes I have been apart of. I have learned a great deal in my short time here at CP, and in that time I have come across some of the most generous, trustworthy and knowledgeable BOTL/SOTL I have ever incountered. With that being said the information here that Brian, Ed and everyone else has brought up truley is a valuable lesson. I knew getting into this pass that the price of each cigar would go up.. For that reason I have added lower $$ sticks and I also know that it is somewhat easy to come up with a CC that has a decent MSRP to trade for a NC with a higher MSRP thus giving people the opportunity to take sticks they normally wouldnt ever get their hands on (ie: DAGA SG)...

If there are still unanswered questions/concerns please keep them coming. Im sure I will have some help answering them from those that have already given their input..

Thanks again..

 

[ironpeddler]

By no means have I been offended by any of this--I simply wanted to tease out the issue a little.

After a bit more thought, I guess my main concern was with the precedent it sets. Not in the sense that we'll all suddenly feel obligated to nearly double up the prices of our takes, but rather that totally blowing your takes out of the water on three of your four exchanges is so unremarkable, pedestrian, and perfectly typical that it is not at all worthy of any discussion or debate.

I know that the peculiarities which made for difficult matching on the desired sticks is at the root of all this, so I acknowledge that while unlikely (and probably compounded by the fact that I'm still new to the game), it would be really frustrating for me if I were the last person to receive the pass and all I had to take from were $40/$50/$60+ cigars.

I hear you Steve, but when you think about it...this has more to do with our participation than what the P&Ts are valued at later on in the Pass.

When the Pass Host initially lists the cigars in the Pass, we have to ask ourselves, 'can we participate (value wise) as this Pass progresses?', because this kind of trading is almost impossible to to avoid...based on previous Passes. Cigars are always traded UP and is unavoidable, it's the nature of every Pass. Remember our Newbie Pass with Brian?...the first person to get the Pass was Danny (DesertRat) and he was over putting the Casa Fuentes for Opus & Anejo. Brian went on the explain how this happens sometimes based on availability and geographic location of the participant.

What I'm trying to say is that we have to do our due diligence and go through the initial cigar list, project a bit of an upgrade and see if there is a diverse enough selection for us to participate price wise later on down the road.

 

[Jonesy]

I understand that the pass will necessarily have to increase in overall value from start to finish--it was simply the scale (3 of 4 exchanges with an average bump of $12) that caught my eye. If everyone doubled up on 3/4 of their puts, we'd have a hairy situation.

I don't mean to seem like I'm still questioning any of this or that I'm not picking up on it--I get it--I'm simply explaining (and perhaps belaboring the point) where I was coming from initially.

This is true, but when you're looking at the cigars taken versus what's being put, it's understandable, but we're looking at 3 cigars that have an average price of $26.....the example you give of bumping up value by $12 gives you an average of $38.....if people can't handle a trade for a $38 cigar, they more than likely aren't going to be able to trade for a $26. Your concerns would be a little more valid if guys were taking $7 with $17 cigars....then we'd have a problem. Once you hit a certain threshold with high end cigars, your options are limited on taking them, thus the bump in values. It can also be attributed to a persons generosity. Maybe they're wanting to put some cigars in that haven't been in the pass yet so others that can't get them have the chance to try them out, maybe they "owe" the pass host, maybe they just wanted to do it. We're talking about three cigars here that got priced out...there's plenty more to choose from if you can't pull a trade on one of these three.

If everyone doubled up on 3/4 of their puts, we'd have a hairy situation.

He didn't double up, he went up 1/3 ... one you really can't take into effect because of the rarity and limited production of the Frank, a trade that's damn near impossible because of a $45 MSRP, and a $26 cigar for a $20 cigar....you work with what you have, sometimes you just can't be right on top of MSRP on each trade.

 

[bully1875]

Well put Gary & Brian...

 

[insight]

Doesn't anyone recall that thread recently where Anthony got called out for being overly generous with his puts? :sign:

Yeah that went well, lets do that again.

 

[The Green Monkey]

Well put Gary & Brian...

I agree 100%.

Thanks, all.

 

[The Green Monkey]

Just got through reading the thread that was obliquely referred to above (and which I had read at the time, but obviously hadn't cataloged in my noodle) as well as another helpful one linked therein (and which is stickied in the Open Passes folder...)

By no means did I think of or intend to insinuate any one-upsmanship or untoward giving (whatever the hell that is) by raising the issue. As someone still very new to cigars and to passes, I simply hadn't yet been in a pass where it came up and was merely wondering about things from a practical standpoint--nothing more, nothing less. I hope my bringing it up wasn't interpreted as anything else.

 

[Gonz]

Just got through reading the thread that was obliquely referred to above (and which I had read at the time, but obviously hadn't cataloged in my noodle) as well as another helpful one linked therein (and which is stickied in the Open Passes folder...)

By no means did I think of or intend to insinuate any one-upsmanship or untoward giving (whatever the hell that is) by raising the issue. As someone still very new to cigars and to passes, I simply hadn't yet been in a pass where it came up and was merely wondering about things from a practical standpoint--nothing more, nothing less. I hope my bringing it up wasn't interpreted as anything else.

Actually, at first I thought it was a roundabout way to get Gary to post some midget porn, but then I thought better and just figured you just had an honest question.

:laugh:

 

[jlada]

Screw you all I'm taking the cheapest stick I can find and loading 'er up with Behikes.

:sign:


Pass arrived. Just woke up. I'll get to inspecting and whatnot and report back - hopefully before I head off to work tonight.

 

[jlada]

I did a quick run through. Appears to be in order. Full inspection when I get off of work tomorrow.

 

[jlada]

Ok, so I just got out of work. Box, pretty good condition. Cigars, couple issues:

#34 Ashton VSG Wizard has a very large wrapper chunk missing, no loose tobacco in the bag ???
#54 Tatuaje Grand Cojonu has pretty extensive wrapper cracks.

Unfortunately, I cannot replace either of these cigars with one of my own. I'm still trying to fix my damned camera, if I can get the thing to turn on, I'll snap a few pics in a bit.

Also, the AF Opus El Escorpion is not from the Opus 22 2008 box. It has no second band and no coffin. I'm pretty confused. I had no idea this cigar was available anywhere else but the Opus 22 set. I'm going to PM Jake to see where he got it to establish provenance. By all means, I don't doubt it's a real Opus, but I was somewhat looking forward to having the matched pair from the Opus 22 box.

Anyway, after all is said and done, I'll make up my mind within the next few hours whether I want the El Esorpion or not. If I don't, I'll get up a couple different trades.

Edit: Pics of the damage.

VSG Damage 1
VSG Damage 2
Cojonu Damage 1
Cojonu Damage 2

 

[bully1875]

I have updated the stick list with USPS's take's..

Any chance you can take a pic of the El Escorpion?

 

[jlada]

I have updated the stick list with USPS's take's..

Any chance you can take a pic of the El Escorpion?

I'll make sure I take care of you and put a couple nice sticks for those. No sense keeping them in to get damaged to the point of oblivion.

El Escorpion, with mine for comparison:

Pic 1
Pic 2

 

[bully1875]

I have updated the stick list with USPS's take's..

Any chance you can take a pic of the El Escorpion?

I'll make sure I take care of you and put a couple nice sticks for those. No sense keeping them in to get damaged to the point of oblivion.

El Escorpion, with mine for comparison:

Pic 1
Pic 2

That could be from some type of dinner I suppose. But in my 15 seconds of research I don't see that it was released anywhere else.

 

[BigJake6904]

That could be from some type of dinner I suppose. But in my 15 seconds of research I don't see that it was released anywhere else.

Ahh, but it was! That's why I didn't say it was from the CFCF box. There were sales of these in a sampler (there was maybe 100 available....if even that) as a fund raiser for CFCF Karate over on CigarFamily. 3 cigars, $130, which is the exact same cost/stick of those in the CFCF box.

Hope that clears it up. And Jeff, I sent you the pm as well....sorry you couldn't get the cool box...the Fuente's didn't sell them with them.