Mold Plume debate

Discussion in 'General Cigar Discussion' started by bluue13, Jul 26, 2011.

  1. DapperDan

    DapperDan New Member

    34
    0
    0
    That is straight up MOLD! Even with the bad pic quality I could spot that a mile away. Bloom is not generally that pronounced and in giant clumps like that. I say find a new B&M and wave audios to that one. Shop owners always favor for "bloom" because they don't want to admit that they have no idea what they are doing. The first thing I thought when I first saw bloom on my sticks was "holy s**t I have mold, my sticks are ruined" which quickly turned to "maybe its not mold" If the white spots on your sticks make you second guess what it really is, it is probably bloom and not mold. Like stated above it should be easily wiped off and leave no trace on your sticks now, if your B&M's walk in has that tell tale "smell" that something might be "off" it probably is. A walk in should smell like fine cigars without even the slightest hint of "mold"
     
  2. BlindedByScience

    BlindedByScience Proud Father of a brave U.S. Marine

    8,049
    269
    83
    Guys, for the love of all things, this really is lots simpler than you are all trying to make it.

    Bloom or plume or WTF ever you want to call it is due to the oils in the cigar seeping through the wrapper and crystallizing on the wrapper. It typically takes years for this process to occur and many cigars wont do this at all. If I dug every cigar I have in my cabinet out and went through them all (including some ISOM's from the 60's) my guess is that I might, and I do repeat might, find one or two that have plume. Maybe. Possibly. It's really uncommon,which makes a cigar that has it rare and interesting.

    Mold is 99 times out 100 three dimensional...plume is not. Mold will usually wipe off with a moist cloth....plume will usually not but I have seen thin layers of crystallized oils that were affected by wiping. Mold shows up in (usually) hairy little spots...plume show up as a hard to see sheen, a thin film on the wrapper.

    In the years that I've been smoking, each and every time someone posts pics and says "...is this mold or plume..." it has been without a doubt mold. Every time. If you find spots on your cigars and are asking yourself "...gee, is this mold or plume..." let me help you out: It's mold. I have yet to walk into a B&M and find cigars with plume on them, but I sure have seen some furry boxes of moldy cigars that the owner then proudly said were "nicely aged and covered with plume" and I walked right out, never to return, every time.

    This is all pretty cut and dry. What to do about them is probably more open to opinion.

    Wikipedia tells us that:

    The important wording in there is that mold typically grows in multicellular filaments. Mold may show up as a spot here or there, but the chances are quite good that even when dealing with surface spots, the growth has penetrated the wrapper and is well into the cigar. Tobacco is easily penetrated by these types of fungal infections. If you see mold on the foot of the cigar, you're done. Period. The very core of the cigar has been permeated and you're pretty much screwed. Yes, you can sometimes wipe surface spots off with a damp rag (I've used distilled water in past efforts) but you have to ask yourself what's inside the cigar that you can't see. A tiny spot is one thing; a wrapper that has hairy blotches all over it is probably toast. It's a matter of degree but usually I don't bother. I have tried to "repair" a cigar with mold spots on it in the past and the result is like smoking a well used pair of gym socks. Eeeccch....no thank you.

    Now, this whole business of dilute bleach wiping a cigar. Chlorine has highest electron affinity and the third highest electronegativity of all the elements, which is a hoity toity way to say it's one hell of a powerful oxidizer and has a particular affinity for organic materials. That's why it's such a great disinfectant. Now, sure, a capful of bleach in a gallon of water is probably drinkable. Most literature that I could find on storing water recommended two to three drops per liter, so a capful per gallon might be a little strong but is in the ballpark.. But there are a couple of things to consider here. Most bleach is formulated for laundry use, and as such, often times has more in it than Chlorine in it. This will vary from product to product but it's worth noting. But, if you put bleach in water I can promise you that you'll be able to taste it. Yes, Chlorine is very volatile and will out gas quickly, but what did it do to the fragile tobacco leaves until it did? I mean, if it's powerful enough to kill the surface mold on contact, wouldn't you think it would also be powerful to at least change the wrapper somewhat? You know, the part of the cigar that is the majority of the taste of the cigar? No thank you.

    My $00.02 is that if you really want to wipe your cigar wrapper, a little distilled water should do the trick. Then, promptly smoke the darn thing. Even if you clean it up on the outside, you have no way to know how deeply impinged the mold is into the body of the cigar. I'm as cheap as the next guy, but when it comes to cigars with any amount of mold at all, they get pitched. Period.

    JMHO, YMMV, AFIK, OMG BBQ, etc......B.B.S.
     
  3. bluue13

    bluue13 Well-Known Member

    2,061
    117
    63
    Great post. Like I said in my first post I knew in my gut it was mold and I wanted to share the experience I had. For whatever reason there is always that little inkling of doubt when someone who supposedly knows so much about cigars tells you otherwise, esp if its a shop owner.

    In any case I've found a new shop. Thanks everyone for weighing in.
     
  4. grateful1

    grateful1 Oh My!

    18,014
    60
    48

    LMAO...they got you to type all that crap out!

    Whatever happened to 'search is your friend'!



    :sign:
     
  5. tomthirtysix

    tomthirtysix Wishing I was as cool as Phil

    6,339
    48
    48
    You think I'm being an ass. You're not the first, probably won't be the last. You're probably correct, too.

    Some might think posting a wish list asking for one off cigars without ever posting an Intro is acting like an ass, too. Wonder if those people are correct.
     
  6. Dapp

    Dapp New Member

    15
    0
    0
    I agree. Well said
     
  7. DapperDan

    DapperDan New Member

    34
    0
    0
    I will have to agree to disagree with blind. I have bought many a cigar, placed them in my humidor only to find that in 3-4 short weeks (in the cigar world that is short) some of them had bloom, plume...NOT MOLD, lol. Anyway the point being bloom will arise when you have "ideal" conditions in your humidor but on the flip side blind is right, bloom is rare and most cigars or cigar smokers for that fact will never experience it. I have had less than 20 cigars reach bloom in my 14 years of smoking, when it happens it is beautiful but should be treated as a rare occasion.
     
  8. Shamrocker

    Shamrocker Sheik Yerbouti

    1,591
    0
    0
    I'm no expert on mold, other than I know it's bad for cigars, good for some cheese, and I don't want it growing in my basement. I'm also no chemist but if you're proposing using roughly 1/3 oz bleach for 128 oz water and ever so lightly dampening a cloth, will that even be enough bleach to do anything to the mold?
     
  9. emoshun

    emoshun SoCal Herfin'

    2,480
    23
    38
    Exactly what I was thinking when I did my Fuente dissection.

    -Jimmy
     
  10. MrAnderson41

    MrAnderson41 Cool Story 'Bro!

    822
    25
    28
    Thanks for posting the link Jimmy. :thumbs: I didn't get a chance to read that thread the first time around.

    I've ran into mold on a couple occasions on the order of what the cigar you dissected had and every time I read a thread like this I start to get worried that maybe I shouldn't have smoked it. Good to know that a tiny spot or two of mold on the wrapper, while not desirable, shouldn't ruin a cigar.
     
  11. jnknzz

    jnknzz Shankopotamus

    949
    0
    0
    I've always wondered how any kind of retailer can get away with selling mold on a consumable product? ??? These shops are pushing guys to smoke mold...'for 20 years'! :laugh: But i guess at fault is the uninformed consumer (due diligence)?

    5 minutes of research...FTMFW!


    Anejos never keep their cedar around here. At least 1/3 will have mold under the wrap.



    *I've only come across 3 plumed cigars in the last 4 years (all from the late '90's).
     
  12. bluue13

    bluue13 Well-Known Member

    2,061
    117
    63

    I would have to personally and respectfully disagree with this statement here. For me, I have read and researched plenty on the mold/plume topic, but when you go in to buy a product from someone who is supposed to know better than you (they own the shop after all) well for me...no matter how much I've read it just makes me second guess what I know. Again just my feelings personally and they are probably due to my limited experience with the hobby.

    Just one man's opinion of course!
     
  13. Joebiech

    Joebiech Too ugly for a picture :P

    423
    1
    18
    Honestly I find it kind of disheartening. Every B&M I have gone into that has mold has always passed it off as plume. I know that many will say to simply avoid those establishments, but if I did that then I would have no more stores to visit. I also find if you question them about the issue, they get highly defensive and aggro. Other times they will be the ones to point out the mold and passing it off as plume while explaining how super amazing fantastic their moldy cigar is. Maybe I am just unlucky with shops in this area. :(
     
  14. CRQuarto

    CRQuarto Brrraaaiiinnnsss.....

    1,844
    0
    0
    I figure that just because someone owns a shop, doesn't mean they know what they are talking about. It's just like when you go to a restaurant and the food sucks, but the owner or chef thinks otherwise. Anyone with enough money can open a cigar shop, but not all of them know, or care to know, much about their product. I'm just glad we have vendors here that are awesome.
     
  15. PJ the Comic

    PJ the Comic Official Illusione Whore

    1,168
    0
    0
    It also appears to me that many stores are taught that mold is plume by thier suppliers. I see the phone call going like this;
    Store "Hey the shipment we got today, when we opened it there were white spots all over the sticks?"
    Factory "No that's just plume. Don't worry about it they will be great cigars.
    Store "But I thought plume only formed on older cigars?"
    Factory "No we have had plume on cigars only a few months old. Those boxes you just got are at least a few months old."

    Problem solved, factory does not have to replace stock that was shipped wet and developed mold during shipping.

    Now the store owner disseminates bad information he got from a trusted source, the factory. All in an effort to not have to replace cigars that were poorly cared for. Couple that information with the typically over humidified store and now the B&M has many, many boxes of cigars with "plume" just waiting for a sucker to be pitched the line of bull.

    PJ
     
  16. MadMonk

    MadMonk Well-Known Member

    5,119
    535
    113
    I have seen the Sales reps telling shop owners that mold is plume.
    As previously stated, keeps the factory from having to replace them.
    Don't know if the factory puts the pressure on the reps to do this, or if the rep is just a con man.

    I have only had one shop, in my 30 yrs of smoking, show concern, and ask me how I could tell, and what they should do. I did make sure to tell the owner that the rep would try to tell him it was plume, and that he should not accept anything but a replacement of the shipment. Sure as hell, the rep told him it was plume! Wish my Doctor could diagnose stuff over the phone like that!
     
  17. CRQuarto

    CRQuarto Brrraaaiiinnnsss.....

    1,844
    0
    0

    Yeah, I've become tired of the debate/battle, and I either walk out, or just order from the vendors here. If I want to smoke at a lounge, I just pay the cutting fee and drop a bit in the tip jar. :(
     
  18. jnknzz

    jnknzz Shankopotamus

    949
    0
    0
    This would work if we were talking about dry/soggy cigars. Instead, think more like a dry-aged steak that you're paying $$$ for is really just old as fook. :D You, not an expert in the area, take the owners word that it's been properly dry-aged and that brown, fuzzy color is 'extra-goodness'. You consume, knowing none the better.

    Places like that ^^^ are usually closed, either from the county or word-of-mouth. There are those of us doing our homework on the subject, but not enough to drive out the skeezy shop owners. Why not 'tobacco shop' inspections? ??? An owner can't keep mold off his stock, he can't sell his stock.

    I mean, this kind of thing is regulated in so many areas concerning the public's health. I would think there would be some kind of health issue with smoking mold...


    I completely understand the need for companys/reps to push these as 'perfectly fine' so they don't have to eat the loss. What the fuck ever happened to ethics? Especially in a hobby/industry that encompasses the complete opposite.

    /rant
     
  19. BlindedByScience

    BlindedByScience Proud Father of a brave U.S. Marine

    8,049
    269
    83
    ...this. The reason it goes on is what you mentioned, plus the fact that the unfortunate truth is most folks don't know the difference. What a combination....
     
  20. moki

    moki el Presidente

    9,414
    0
    0
    There is no debate. That is mold.

    EDIT to add link -> http://www.vitolas.net/displayimage.php?pos=-601
     

Share This Page