Cigar Rights of America

On several occasions I have considered contributing to CRA because like the rest of you, I've had enough. However, their web-site seems to provide more information on what they oppose than what they intend to do about it. To me, it looks as though they excel in the areas of event hosting and news releases, but not much more is getting done. I've stopped prior to donating when an image enters my mind of a contribution being used to buy James Suckling a cigar at the next big get together. My perception could be and I hope is entirely wrong; however I would like to hear about some of the actions they are taking. When our NY retailers are faced with extinction, what is CRA out there doing today to see that this doesn't happen?

Let me reiterate that it is not my intention to dismiss this organization at this point. I only wish gather more information so that I can make an informed decision.

CasaSoho said:

On several occasions I have considered contributing to CRA because like the rest of you, I've had enough. However, their web-site seems to provide more information on what they oppose than what they intend to do about it. To me, it looks as though they excel in the areas of event hosting and news releases, but not much more is getting done. I've stopped prior to donating when an image enters my mind of a contribution being used to buy James Suckling a cigar at the next big get together. My perception could be and I hope is entirely wrong; however I would like to hear about some of the actions they are taking. When our NY retailers are faced with extinction, what is CRA out there doing today to see that this doesn't happen?

Let me reiterate that it is not my intention to dismiss this organization at this point. I only wish gather more information so that I can make an informed decision.

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CRA< read

CigarMan Andy said:

CasaSoho said:

On several occasions I have considered contributing to CRA because like the rest of you, I've had enough. However, their web-site seems to provide more information on what they oppose than what they intend to do about it. To me, it looks as though they excel in the areas of event hosting and news releases, but not much more is getting done. I've stopped prior to donating when an image enters my mind of a contribution being used to buy James Suckling a cigar at the next big get together. My perception could be and I hope is entirely wrong; however I would like to hear about some of the actions they are taking. When our NY retailers are faced with extinction, what is CRA out there doing today to see that this doesn't happen?

Let me reiterate that it is not my intention to dismiss this organization at this point. I only wish gather more information so that I can make an informed decision.

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CRA< read

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Andy,

I have viewed the web-site and this is where my inquiry comes from. There is a lot of information on their mission and principles, which I agree with 100% and had prompted my thought to donate to this cause. However, I find the site is lacking on details of of the efforts they are putting forth and what effect it is having, If you could link me to a particular page I would appreciate it.

Thanks,
Matt

CasaSoho said:

CigarMan Andy said:

CasaSoho said:

On several occasions I have considered contributing to CRA because like the rest of you, I've had enough. However, their web-site seems to provide more information on what they oppose than what they intend to do about it. To me, it looks as though they excel in the areas of event hosting and news releases, but not much more is getting done. I've stopped prior to donating when an image enters my mind of a contribution being used to buy James Suckling a cigar at the next big get together. My perception could be and I hope is entirely wrong; however I would like to hear about some of the actions they are taking. When our NY retailers are faced with extinction, what is CRA out there doing today to see that this doesn't happen?

Let me reiterate that it is not my intention to dismiss this organization at this point. I only wish gather more information so that I can make an informed decision.

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CRA< read

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Andy,

I have viewed the web-site and this is where my inquiry comes from. There is a lot of information on their mission and principles, which I agree with 100% and had prompted my thought to donate to this cause. However, I find the site is lacking on details of of the efforts they are putting forth and what effect it is having, If you could link me to a particular page I would appreciate it.

Thanks,
Matt

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These two links will keep you informed, but what you don't hear about often is that the CRA lobbies congress and legislature. Stories come out as available. When I get the next letter, email, I will send you a copy.

About CRA
News

Hope this helps a little

I think that right now, the biggest influence CRA is having is in its role as a collector and distributor of information. Frankly, I don't have time to scan the docket for my states legislature, let alone the federal one. I get notice every week or so of what's happening, so I can choose to make phone calls if I want to.

They describe themselves as a collective lobbying voice for cigar smokers. To be affective in that role, they need to hold a large number of votes that they can threaten or promise with. I don't think they have anywhere near the numbers they need to be at all effective. If all of the regular contributors to all of the cigar boards online were to sign up they would still not have the necessary numbers(just us computer geeks). This in my opinion is why they are sponsoring events across the country, membership is essential, not for their activism, but the sheer power of numbers.

For the price of a few cigars a year, it's worth it to me to be countable by the policy makers.

Join CRA and be part of our voice.

They are one of the reasons why we are only paying $0.40 maximum SCHIP tax per stick instead of 40.26% (which would work out to $4.03 on a $10.00 stick) and no floor tax (the same tax for cigars already in inventory), which would have crippled the distributors.

Some may say that they didn't really do anything, but look at what could have happened.

surfish.dave said:

Join CRA and be part of our voice.

They are one of the reasons why we are only paying $0.40 maximum SCHIP tax per stick instead of 40.26% (which would work out to $4.03 on a $10.00 stick) and no floor tax (the same tax for cigars already in inventory), which would have crippled the distributors.

Some may say that they didn't really do anything, but look at what could have happened.

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So if they accomplished all this then why would they not show this on their website?

I'm not opposed to them in any way; I'm just like the OP, I want more info on positive activities taking place. Not just a bunch of HERFs.

I agree with the sentiment of this. I want to add to the cause, but I want to know what specific actions the cause is taking. It looks like a cool party setup for after the Big Smoke, but I don't live back east. I sure wouldn't want my membership dollars funding that. It serves me no good from afar and doesn't appear it would help the cause any. And if the party was not funded by my membership dollars, then I'd think it was likely funded by the manufacturers who comprise its board of directors. I'm not inclined to pay to become a member of directed marketing.

I want to believe in this organization. Looks like a very nice website. Informative too. It's just sorely lacking in information of active campaigning for our rights.

mmburtch said:

I think that right now, the biggest influence CRA is having is in its role as a collector and distributor of information. Frankly, I don't have time to scan the docket for my states legislature, let alone the federal one. I get notice every week or so of what's happening, so I can choose to make phone calls if I want to.

They describe themselves as a collective lobbying voice for cigar smokers. To be affective in that role, they need to hold a large number of votes that they can threaten or promise with. I don't think they have anywhere near the numbers they need to be at all effective. If all of the regular contributors to all of the cigar boards online were to sign up they would still not have the necessary numbers(just us computer geeks). This in my opinion is why they are sponsoring events across the country, membership is essential, not for their activism, but the sheer power of numbers.

For the price of a few cigars a year, it's worth it to me to be countable by the policy makers.

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I see your point and I understand it's not fair to expect immediate substantial impact from such a young organization without the necessary base. I hope to see this organization experience continued growth and one day exercise its power through numbers. One of our members was kind enough to pass along a sample of their e-mail correspondence to provide a better idea of what's happening and I was encouraged with their calls to action for members to show up at city council meetings and call into radio stations. However, the below post echos my concern when viewing their web page...

badhangover said:

I agree with the sentiment of this. I want to add to the cause, but I want to know what specific actions the cause is taking. It looks like a cool party setup for after the Big Smoke, but I don't live back east. I sure wouldn't want my membership dollars funding that. It serves me no good from afar and doesn't appear it would help the cause any. And if the party was not funded by my membership dollars, then I'd think it was likely funded by the manufacturers who comprise its board of directors. I'm not inclined to pay to become a member of directed marketing.

I want to believe in this organization. Looks like a very nice website. Informative too. It's just sorely lacking in information of active campaigning for our rights.

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I sent the following letter this morning:

There is a discussion going on, on one of the online cigar forums, about what exactly CRA has done other than throw parties. The point is made, that there is no information on the website listing any political action or lobbying efforts that have or are being undertaken. In my opinion, having the same questions and concerns expressed by two different members of a very active cigar community suggests that there is some confusion as to what CRA is doing, and that confusion is keeping people from joining.

Here is a link to the thread on Cigar Pass. I feel it would be helpful, if a representative or CRA were to be a member of CP, and be able to answer these types of questions. The forum members are the organized cigar community in this country. If the CRA cannot convince them to join together as a lobby, how are they ever going to convince the average guy walking into a cigar shop?

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That is a well put letter. I'd also like to know more before joining up in this. I have thought about often, and will soon be in a position to become involved.

Well put. Let me add, it's not my intent to be insulting (other than that dig at Suckling). I look forward to a response that both clarifies my concerns and brings hope to the entirety of our membership.

I was at Updown Cigar in Chicago the other day. I bought a few cigars and saw a CRA pamphlet. I picked it up and brought it home.

When I got home I opened it up and read it front and back. It spoke a lot of what is happening to our rights and about taxes and such.

But when I was done reading it I had two questions: Ok, so what is CRA doing about it, and how will my $30 a year help?

The answers to these questions cannot be found on the pamphlet. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for any organization that is there to help us out, but like CasaSoho is saying....it seems to me they are doing a poor job of publicizing what it is they actually do to combat these anti-smoking movements.

mmburtch said:

I sent the following letter this morning:

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Good letter, Matt. I'm sure there's a lot more people here besides the two who feel the same. I know I'm in that boat as well, and hope that we get a response from them.

This is a great topic.

I have subscribed, and am looking forward to new information.

Tim

surfish.dave said:

Join CRA and be part of our voice.

They are one of the reasons why we are only paying $0.40 maximum SCHIP tax per stick instead of 40.26% (which would work out to $4.03 on a $10.00 stick) and no floor tax (the same tax for cigars already in inventory), which would have crippled the distributors.

Some may say that they didn't really do anything, but look at what could have happened.

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Dave, I'm not sure I personally agree with your sentiments here. I'm one of the skeptics when it comes to CRA too. THEY were the ones that said to 'be happy' with ONLY a .40 per cigar tax instead of the 40% tax increase. Personally, I don't think they did a thing or were of any influence on the eventual outcome of the final tax implemented. I too received one of the promo leaflets (about joining) in the box of a cigar purchase I made months ago, it asked for money but included no definitive direction on their approach to defend against this unfair new tax. But they do have pretty tee shirts & sales pamphlets :whistling:

Let's cut through the BS....our Government doesn't want to kill the tobacco industry with unaffordable taxes to the end user, they just want to get as close as they can to unaffordable. They want to make more money from these new taxes so they have more to spend on their pet projects. A 40% increase would have effectively crippled the industry. The threat of a 40% was just an opening salvo to make the .40 per stick look more palatable in the end....period.

That was their intension all along, find an increased tax figure that would still allow tobacco users to not break stride in their buying habits and still funnel millions into the US Governments coffers so they have another revenue stream to fund their UNBRIDLED SPENDING....and they hid behind children's health care to do it this time.

It took them awhile...but they found the happy balance between people quiting and people still spending :angry: greedy fuggers.


Also, please keep in mind, the Politicians will be keeping their eye on pre-tax sales figures in comparison to post-tax sales figures for the next year....if they don't see a significant decrease in the post-tax sales rate, they will come back to the well and raise these taxes AGAIN!

I would make a small wager that they already have a formula in place...'if post-tax sales are within X% of the pre-tax sales figures during the next year, we will again raise tobacco taxes by an additional X%.'

Now, at close to $10 for a pack of cigarettes in NYC...that's one to watch. They'll be lines at the Indian Reservation tobaccos shops like the gas lines in the '70s!

Everyone that has posted here has a valid point, that I can't deny. But this is the only organization that I know of (beside XiKar's Defiance Alliance) that is actively persuing OUR rights to smoke what we love and enjoy. Most other organizations (RTDA, etc.) are geared towards the manufacturers.

CRA is a fledgling organization that can only get stronger with increased membership (you gotta start from the bottom and go up, right). As the organization gets stronger, more lobbyists (I hate that word for obvious reasons) will come on board. Although I have no doubt that the gubment has a plan to increase our sin tax even further, CRA is hopefully the start to see that this does not happen.

My feelings are, for $30 a year, give 'em a chance. What do you have to lose? Hell, most of us spend $30 on four cigars. So you give up one cigar every three months, no biggie for me. What I don't want to see is the gubment taxing my freedom to smoke out of existence which, whether you believe it or not, is what they want to do.

We are a minority, gentlemen and ladies, whether you believe it or not. It's high time we get an organization of lobbyists working for us for a change.

My name is surfish.dave and I approve this message.

surfish.dave said:

But this is the only organization that I know of (beside XiKar's Defiance Alliance) that is actively persuing OUR rights to smoke what we love and enjoy.

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And this brings us right back to the first question: What, exactly, are they doing?

surfish.dave said:

Everyone that has posted here has a valid point, that I can't deny. But this is the only organization that I know of (beside XiKar's Defiance Alliance) that is actively persuing OUR rights to smoke what we love and enjoy. Most other organizations (RTDA, etc.) are geared towards the manufacturers.

CRA is a fledgling organization that can only get stronger with increased membership (you gotta start from the bottom and go up, right). As the organization gets stronger, more lobbyists (I hate that word for obvious reasons) will come on board. Although I have no doubt that the gubment has a plan to increase our sin tax even further, CRA is hopefully the start to see that this does not happen.

My feelings are, for $30 a year, give 'em a chance. What do you have to lose? Hell, most of us spend $30 on four cigars. So you give up one cigar every three months, no biggie for me. What I don't want to see is the gubment taxing my freedom to smoke out of existence which, whether you believe it or not, is what they want to do.

We are a minority, gentlemen and ladies, whether you believe it or not. It's high time we get an organization of lobbyists working for us for a change.

My name is surfish.dave and I approve this message.

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Dave, I think you'll find a hard time finding anyone on here that doesn't agree with what you're saying...but I think you're missing the point of this discussion.

No one is arguing whether or not the cause is a just one......I think as avid cigar smokers we would all agree it is.

The question is a simple one, as restated below........What.....are.....they....doing?

tomthirtysix said:

And this brings us right back to the first question: What, exactly, are they doing?

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Actions take more effect when large numbers of groups are involved. The first point on the webpage states help us grow to 100,000 members. I have contributed (and intend to continue) until im shown that there is nothing else anyone can do about it. Even the talk of doing something is more then anyone else is doing right now and I support it.