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#1 pappascigars

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Posted 24 October 2008 - 12:22 AM

We have samples coming in very soon, I am going to give away freebies to those who help us get some retailers intersted. Here is what you do have your local B&M call me and say they heard that Kevin Pappas is coming out with a cigar and they woudl be intersted in finding out more about it, then you also need to tell them your name and you PM me that you did this and you get a freebie, Fair enough,, also we cannot guarantee all shops will be elgible to carry them, they are going to be limited production and limited supply so that those who do carry them have enough to cater to their customers, once the line grows into the 5 toher blends we are working on and beyond we will reach out to moe retialers but for now it will be a few retailers probably between 25 to 40 at the most. So get a word in and see if you can get a freebie out of it and cary them in your shop, you might even get a cigar event out of it for the shop. It was my idea to get these into retailers as at firs they were only going to be sold in resorts, I changed the prospectus and now we will be doing only a vey few resorts and mostly B&M's.

Thanks and God Bless

Marc

Kevin Pappas Signature Cigars
623 551 2641
cigar@bandoffive.com

#2 Rebel Herfer

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Posted 24 October 2008 - 12:44 AM

Sounds like a good enough marketing plan. But before I request a cigar from my B&M, putting my rep on the line, I want to know a bit more about it please. What types of tobacco, the vitola, the maker, etc. Please share this with us. We always like to hear about new cigars here at CP. :) I for one rarely request that my B&Ms carry a cigar I haven't smoked yet.

#3 pappascigars

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Posted 24 October 2008 - 02:51 AM

Not really asking that you recommend the product or ask them to carry it, I am asking that you ask them to contact us and let them know about us, that we exist, or you heard about us, I wouldnt ask that you recommend something you know nothing about. I am offering up freebies to those willing to at least say HEY heard about this new cigar,, why dont you find out about it,,saves me maybe missing them in a phone call, B&M's are weird, some are real nice, some are wacked, some you would think are castro himself, and some are just plain stupid, I have to say that because it is true, I know of one and of course no names but he has one of the best marekting setups but most his cigars taste horrible simply becasue he wont store them right, that in my opinon is stupid. Adn what is even funnier is his patrons dont know the difference, ,, I take that back there are two B&M's like that. Storage will make or break a cigar,, that is a fact.

The first blend (nounos - greek for "godfather of night") we are coming out with is a strong powerful cigar, much like the old cuban cigar of the 60's, I cannot give out details on the manufacturer, but it has Nicraguan Filler, and Ecuadoran Binder and Wrapper I beleive, we had this blend as prototypes but there was a small change made going into production. But i am still pretty sure the regions are the same, a cigar with the same blend sold for like $20 a few years aog, this is close to the same blend but a slight change which we have not been able to tell the difference, so there you go, strong, powerful, Nic Filler, ECU wrapper, I would ssay is the best I can do till we actually get the order in from the factory and be able to tell you exact which tobacco they used, we will be able to do that once the production is set and the samples are done, we were pretty pikcy about gettgn a powerful belnd for this first of five blends, the next 4 blends will be just as unique as this blend.

And as far as the maker we are not sure if we are going to be telling that or not as we may use more than one maker for our lines, so it serves all best to keep that out of it, if a person dont try a cigar based on who makes it , there are probably a lot of good cigars out there they are missing out on. I can tell you the maker for this line is well known and one of the top names in the business, we have complete trust in his work.

Thanks,
Marc

#4 Diesel Grinch

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Posted 24 October 2008 - 08:40 AM

Sounds like a nice offer, but I would recommend sending a few packs out to some of our better reviewing members and see what they say about your cigar. If the others say they like the cigar I don't mind dropping your name at my B&M for nothing. Plus what MSRP?

DG

#5 pappascigars

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Posted 24 October 2008 - 10:27 AM

Fair enough, can you help me do some homework and let me in on some of the most I guess you would day senior members here or the ones that speak out, I can live with that, the sticks shoudl come out about the 8 to 10 dollar range, depends on the retailer and how they amrekt, our SRP is going to be $8.75 and less, but remember all stats have to add their tobacco tax to that, CA is the worst at about 35%, I know AZ has only like a 7 or 8 cent per cigar. So I think you can say a $9 to $10 cigar, and we are told that that is about 50% lower than expected. We are doing some creative buying methods to help keep cost down. I knwo most think that is high for a cigar, but when you have a Graycliff at $18 to $25 that is nto a $20 cigar in my opinon, and Opus and ESG sell for $20, I think we are in the perfect range.

#6 souldog

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Posted 24 October 2008 - 11:04 AM

the sticks shoudl come out about the 8 to 10 dollar range, depends on the retailer and how they amrekt, our SRP is going to be $8.75 and less,


You sure about that Marc?? Because here, you stated your cigar is going to be less than $15, but more than $10:

we made a great deal on this tobacco which is currently used in some $20 cigars and this cigar will be in the $10 price range maybe a little more, but surely less than $15.


Or did you start a new thread because members were calling you out on the client you represent, and the thread wasn't going the way you wanted it to go??

Original Pappas Cigar Thread

Also, here's that "third person" Kevin told you about:

But hey besides the money laundering, he [Kevin Pappas] was selling criminals confidential info so they could use said info for reduced prision terms.

Linky

Speaking of money laundering...

Don't worry Marc I am sure Kevin will stand by your side if things don't go so well, just look at his past history with his father and various associates.

Editted to add " Looks Like I am the Third"


Where is CoventryCat when you need him?? Your spelling is driving me nuts...

#7 NullSmurf

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Posted 24 October 2008 - 11:44 AM

Fair enough, can you help me do some homework and let me in on some of the most I guess you would day senior members here or the ones that speak out, I can live with that, the sticks shoudl come out about the 8 to 10 dollar range, depends on the retailer and how they amrekt, our SRP is going to be $8.75 and less, but remember all stats have to add their tobacco tax to that, CA is the worst at about 35%, I know AZ has only like a 7 or 8 cent per cigar. So I think you can say a $9 to $10 cigar, and we are told that that is about 50% lower than expected. We are doing some creative buying methods to help keep cost down. I knwo most think that is high for a cigar, but when you have a Graycliff at $18 to $25 that is nto a $20 cigar in my opinon, and Opus and ESG sell for $20, I think we are in the perfect range.



Fair enough. I will recommend three.

Kinantz Sample review here

Syrlinus Sample review here

Blindedbyscience Sample review here

Edit: Every manufacturer I've met have been good, honorable men. Studying Pappas for even a short time indicates to me that he is neither. Guys, hope you get some free cigars from this. I think my money will be better spent.

Edited by NullSmurf, 24 October 2008 - 12:02 PM.


#8 tomthirtysix

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Posted 24 October 2008 - 12:18 PM

Edit: Every manufacturer I've met have been good, honorable men. Studying Pappas for even a short time indicates to me that he is neither. Guys, hope you get some free cigars from this. I think my money will be better spent.



But he's not the manufacturer, Bruce. The manufacturer is some top secret person, who made $20 cigars 20 years ago. But you cannot know who this person is. :laugh:

#9 ironpeddler

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Posted 25 October 2008 - 12:21 AM

I've read every single word you've written here and in the original post and I have to make a few suggestions.....I'm not being critical, just making a few suggestions.

1) You need to write in a manor by which you express some amount of sincerity, really. Your 'machine gun style' of writing is hurting my eyes and insulting my intelligence. Put your attitude away and try talking to us, not at us.

2) PLEASE use the spell check and some type of literary structure. If you're stating to be a cigar professional, then write like one....correct? You're a 47 year old man with an education, put it to use.

3) Your idea of having the members here ask our B&M to "just make a call to you" is not marketing genius, it sounds more like a scam...sounds like you're using us, thinking we're a bunch of idiots. If you spent 2 or 3 hours just reading some of the posts here, you would have approached this place completely different...I hope!

Here at CP there are doctors, (too many) lawyers, technology professionals, engineers in many fields, entrepreneurs of all walks of life, law enforcement personal, members of our armed forces representing all branches, firemen, teachers, college professors, PHD professionals....some very smart folks and I think you underestimated your audience my friend. You coming across like this guy Kevin did in his "previous life"...like you can't be trusted.

Now the most important point. You have come to a cigar based Internet Forum and have only a vague idea of the cigar you are representing. Did you really think you could throw out a few semi-facts and garner some interest with the people I just described?

The construction of cigars are discussed here daily. We toss around ideas about how wrapper leaf effects the taste of cigars consisting of the same binders and fillers. How the yearly weather conditions effect crop production and resulting taste of the cigars produced from them. Does the first release of a cigar taste the same as the second release? What happens when a manufacturer gets too big, too fast and does the quality control of their products suffer from this growth? Which cigars are effected by this lack of attention? What part of the cigar is suffering from this rushed production? Does one cigar taste like another but have a different band on it to stretch marketing? EVERY DAY THESE ARE TOPICS HERE AT CIGAR PASS!

And you come here with your, "don't worry about what we put in it, you'll like because I say you will" attitude...sorry, but that dog won't hunt here. Saying it's a "strong cigar" like some $20 stick made a while back is pure baloney! Sorry, but this is all true.

We already have some very successful cigar creators posting here on a consistent basis that share their insight and knowledge, their hopes and dreams of what their vision of their product means to them....and hopefully to us a fellow cigar lovers. Good, honest, sincere people. If you took the time to read and study this place, you would have seen that straight up in a short amount of time. If posting on these forums was part of your marketing strategy, you should have MADE THE TIME to do this...not saying to yourself that you were too busy to do so.

We are your customers...you want OUR money...earn it!




I'm tired and going to bed now...geez, it took me almost an hour to write this thing! Hope I made sense.

#10 Rebel Herfer

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Posted 25 October 2008 - 01:59 AM

I, like Brutha Breedy, should have stepped away from the keyboard, but I don't listen well after a night of herfin' n drinkin'. I did edit quite a bit, probably not enough. So lay out the landing strip 'cause I'm letting it fly.
I can't believe a Dr. Phil talking fugger like me is doing this, but I've had it up to my Cuban Triple Cap lately with the ignorance, incompetence, "my Woowoo hurts" BS, and FU attitude of some of the very recent, newly registered members. This thread’s author appears to be a case in point.
I posted a sincere reply to Marc to illicit some genuine information about his product. (Unfortunately I did this before reading his other thread that Jon referenced, my bad.) You gave me attitude Marc - rude. You went on to further insult our collective intelligence with your inexcusable use of pi$$ poor grammar, spelling, punctuation, and general posting style. I can't believe you hold a job that requires written communication with the public. Furthermore, it amazes me that you would ask, in one of your first posts, people you do not know, to do YOUR job by shilling for your mystery cigar.
Your evasiveness engenders you no allies here. So far you've drawn a goose egg based on responses. I am no punk thug who thinks it cool to hang with self-professed criminals. I just like to smoke damn good cigars with my Friends! Knock off the political rants – nuff said! The way you talk about cigars & the industry in general makes me question how long you have been in the industry & how long you will be in it.
For the record, Gary is correct – It does matter who makes the cigar and the type of tobacco used.
Yes, I use I because I speak for myself, but I concur with several of my BOTL/SOTLs in this thread and the other.
Name dropping is boorish and shallow; is this how I am supposed to perceive your cigar as well? If so, no thanks! You can keep your super secret, "I could tell you but I'd have to kill you" cigar. In fact, based on your rude & ignorant schlepping of your wares, I wouldn't even want to smoke any cigar with you. You get out that which you put in.
Wake up, smell the CP Coffee (the real deal), write a proper apology, read the rules (twice), rethink your approach to my brethren & me, and move forward. Otherwise your stay here will be short lived and you can pound sand!

Post Jack of my own post:

What the heck is a knuckle cigar? In my 20 plus years of cigar smoking I have not heard the term used. I may be wrong or hanging out with the wrong crowd. Some knuckle references are good and some are downright scary!

Examples of a BAD knuckle:

Posted Image

& a worse knuckle (or is that Moose)

Posted Image

#11 BlindedByScience

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Posted 25 October 2008 - 02:12 AM

I've read every single word you've written here and in the original post and I have to make a few suggestions.....I'm not being critical, just making a few suggestions.

1) You need to write in a manor by which you express some amount of sincerity, really. Your 'machine gun style' of writing is hurting my eyes and insulting my intelligence. Put your attitude away and try talking to us, not at us.

2) PLEASE use the spell check and some type of literary structure. If you're stating to be a cigar professional, then write like one....correct? You're a 47 year old man with an education, put it to use.

3) Your idea of having the members here ask our B&M to "just make a call to you" is not marketing genius, it sounds more like a scam...sounds like you're using us, thinking we're a bunch of idiots. If you spent 2 or 3 hours just reading some of the posts here, you would have approached this place completely different...I hope!

Here at CP there are doctors, (too many) lawyers, technology professionals, engineers in many fields, entrepreneurs of all walks of life, law enforcement personal, members of our armed forces representing all branches, firemen, teachers, college professors, PHD professionals....some very smart folks and I think you underestimated your audience my friend. You coming across like this guy Kevin did in his "previous life"...like you can't be trusted.

Now the most important point. You have come to a cigar based Internet Forum and have only a vague idea of the cigar you are representing. Did you really think you could throw out a few semi-facts and garner some interest with the people I just described?

The construction of cigars are discussed here daily. We toss around ideas about how wrapper leaf effects the taste of cigars consisting of the same binders and fillers. How the yearly weather conditions effect crop production and resulting taste of the cigars produced from them. Does the first release of a cigar taste the same as the second release? What happens when a manufacturer gets too big, too fast and does the quality control of their products suffer from this growth? Which cigars are effected by this lack of attention? What part of the cigar is suffering from this rushed production? Does one cigar taste like another but have a different band on it to stretch marketing? EVERY DAY THESE ARE TOPICS HERE AT CIGAR PASS!

And you come here with your, "don't worry about what we put in it, you'll like because I say you will" attitude...sorry, but that dog won't hunt here. Saying it's a "strong cigar" like some $20 stick made a while back is pure baloney! Sorry, but this is all true.

We already have some very successful cigar creators posting here on a consistent basis that share their insight and knowledge, their hopes and dreams of what their vision of their product means to them....and hopefully to us a fellow cigar lovers. Good, honest, sincere people. If you took the time to read and study this place, you would have seen that straight up in a short amount of time. If posting on these forums was part of your marketing strategy, you should have MADE THE TIME to do this...not saying to yourself that you were too busy to do so.

We are your customers...you want OUR money...earn it!




I'm tired and going to bed now...geez, it took me almost an hour to write this thing! Hope I made sense.

It could not have been said better. Bravo, ironpeddler......Bravo...!!

And.....I concur 109%.

B.B.S.

#12 JHolmes763

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Posted 25 October 2008 - 02:22 AM

Hope I made sense.


You made complete sense and presented everything in a professional manner that should be taken to heart by any cigar professional. You contributed to the discussion.

If you don't like the background of the manufacterer, show your support (or lack thereof) with your wallet.

#13 ironpeddler

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Posted 25 October 2008 - 11:25 AM

It could not have been said better. Bravo, ironpeddler......Bravo...!!

And.....I concur 109%.

B.B.S.

LMFAO!...good one Tom...sharp as a tack my boy...sharp as a tack! :laugh:

#14 Kingantz

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Posted 25 October 2008 - 12:01 PM

I've read every single word you've written here and in the original post and I have to make a few suggestions.....I'm not being critical, just making a few suggestions.

1) You need to write in a manor by which you express some amount of sincerity, really. Your 'machine gun style' of writing is hurting my eyes and insulting my intelligence. Put your attitude away and try talking to us, not at us.

2) PLEASE use the spell check and some type of literary structure. If you're stating to be a cigar professional, then write like one....correct? You're a 47 year old man with an education, put it to use.

3) Your idea of having the members here ask our B&M to "just make a call to you" is not marketing genius, it sounds more like a scam...sounds like you're using us, thinking we're a bunch of idiots. If you spent 2 or 3 hours just reading some of the posts here, you would have approached this place completely different...I hope!

Here at CP there are doctors, (too many) lawyers, technology professionals, engineers in many fields, entrepreneurs of all walks of life, law enforcement personal, members of our armed forces representing all branches, firemen, teachers, college professors, PHD professionals....some very smart folks and I think you underestimated your audience my friend. You coming across like this guy Kevin did in his "previous life"...like you can't be trusted.

Now the most important point. You have come to a cigar based Internet Forum and have only a vague idea of the cigar you are representing. Did you really think you could throw out a few semi-facts and garner some interest with the people I just described?

The construction of cigars are discussed here daily. We toss around ideas about how wrapper leaf effects the taste of cigars consisting of the same binders and fillers. How the yearly weather conditions effect crop production and resulting taste of the cigars produced from them. Does the first release of a cigar taste the same as the second release? What happens when a manufacturer gets too big, too fast and does the quality control of their products suffer from this growth? Which cigars are effected by this lack of attention? What part of the cigar is suffering from this rushed production? Does one cigar taste like another but have a different band on it to stretch marketing? EVERY DAY THESE ARE TOPICS HERE AT CIGAR PASS!

And you come here with your, "don't worry about what we put in it, you'll like because I say you will" attitude...sorry, but that dog won't hunt here. Saying it's a "strong cigar" like some $20 stick made a while back is pure baloney! Sorry, but this is all true.

We already have some very successful cigar creators posting here on a consistent basis that share their insight and knowledge, their hopes and dreams of what their vision of their product means to them....and hopefully to us a fellow cigar lovers. Good, honest, sincere people. If you took the time to read and study this place, you would have seen that straight up in a short amount of time. If posting on these forums was part of your marketing strategy, you should have MADE THE TIME to do this...not saying to yourself that you were too busy to do so.

We are your customers...you want OUR money...earn it!




I'm tired and going to bed now...geez, it took me almost an hour to write this thing! Hope I made sense.


Excellent post Gary! Very excellent post!

#15 pappascigars

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Posted 25 October 2008 - 05:49 PM

Tough Group, I think I was warned of that, obviously political frustration.

Anyway, here is the makeup of the cigar, the reason I was not sure was that we had a blend that we approved and we were told there would be some slight changes, for the better I presume and it looks it, so for those who know the aspects of the different types of seeds used and the tobacco here you go,

Wrapper
Ecuador Sumatra Rosado Oscuro
Binder
Ecuador Habano
Fillers
Ecuador Sumatra Ligero, Nicaragua Habano, Ecuador Criollo98

For those not familiar the Criollo98 Seed is one of the most sought after tobacco's used nowadays, it is a hybrid seed from two cuban seeds that is considered a first generation, it is known for it's quality to produce a Cuban taste no matter where it is grown, it derives from the original criollo tobacco that origin comes from the evolution of cigar tobacco when Columbus started the trade with Cuba, so in concept it derives from the original old world cigar taste, that had a huge following until the Corojo taste came into effect and that was short lived as it lost its strength and flavor and it's Blue Modl problems, the Criollo98 is blue mold resistant.

Once we have finsihed our marketing material I will post it, for those who have an interest.

#16 BlindedByScience

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Posted 25 October 2008 - 06:45 PM

Tough Group, I think I was warned of that, obviously political frustration.


Keep it up, funny guy, and I'm sure you can piss off everyone who isn't pissed already.

As far as being a "tough group", I guess some folks would find it that way. How you can take that away from ironpeddler's post is interesting, in and of itself.

B.B.S.


It could not have been said better. Bravo, ironpeddler......Bravo...!!

And.....I concur 109%.

B.B.S.

LMFAO!...good one Tom...sharp as a tack my boy...sharp as a tack! :laugh:

Simple answer....that means I REALLY concur..... :laugh:

#17 pappascigars

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Posted 25 October 2008 - 07:24 PM

Posted Image

#18 ironpeddler

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Posted 25 October 2008 - 08:10 PM

Tough Group, I think I was warned of that, obviously political frustration.


Marc,

No political frustration at all, just an honest attempt to give you some good, solid advice about CP. But, your repeated attempts at trying to attribute our comments to other factors tells all of us here you don't understand what is trying to be accomplished....teaching YOU. We know the deal...Columbus' contribution to the infantsy of the cigar industry, cross pollinated Cuban seeds, and blue mold. Trying to draw parallels of Columbus to organized crime was a bit of a stretch and sounded more like Hollywood than telling us about your cigar. Stop looking at the whole marketing campaign of Kevin Pappas and concentrate on just the cigars when you post here.

I know what you're trying to do in getting your cigars to market, but doing like a "street punk" is not the way. 'The Sopranos' brand had Madison Avenue Image Consultants and Wall Street Marketing Firms driving them...not a wise cracking, street guy throwing out pot shots at people trying to help him. Act like a professional and you will get the respect you deserve in return. By reaching out to the CP membership, you may just pick up an idea or two that could help your cause in getting these cigars to market successfully....some of us have been at this longer than you, believe it or not!

The cigar stats you posted look very interesting. I know you are protecting the manufacturer, but I hope the construction lives up to the hard work you've done in blending them. I'm sure you know this already, but a fancy band, uniquely shaped box, Glamour Shot photos, and a ton of hype does not make for a good cigar.

Good Luck....I look forward to your sample reviews from the CP Community.


PS: Also, when you write a post, hit the 'Preview Post" button and read it over first before hitting 'Add Reply', you'll quickly see the mis-spelled words and it gives you a chance to clean it up....also keep in mind Marc, when people do a Google search on your brand once it comes out to market, these threads will come up as reading material for the researcher....so tread lightly my friend, tread lightly.



It could not have been said better. Bravo, ironpeddler......Bravo...!!

And.....I concur 109%.

B.B.S.

LMFAO!...good one Tom...sharp as a tack my boy...sharp as a tack! :laugh:

Simple answer....that means I REALLY concur..... :laugh:


I thought you were referring to the Macanudo 1968 thread when we were throwing out percentages of agreement! :laugh:

#19 souldog

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Posted 25 October 2008 - 08:15 PM

Tough Group, I think I was warned of that, obviously political frustration.


Give me a break... I had a nice long response for you, but I am done wasting my breath on a man who won't take criticism. At least Gary seems to still want to help you.


Again, have fun "shilling" your cigars. :rolleyes:

#20 pappascigars

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Posted 25 October 2008 - 11:24 PM

Tough Group, I think I was warned of that, obviously political frustration.


Marc,

Trying to draw parallels of Columbus to organized crime was a bit of a stretch and sounded more like Hollywood than telling us about your cigar.



Sorry but I cannot resist a challenge like that, no cigar info here, but it is the person that is most repsonsible for cigars in Cuba and it's first known export , or the first mention of the cigar trade in history I beleive.

When one studies the past they begin to understand the future. Some inteliictual said something to that effect. A far fetched idea would be that Christopher Columbus was a saint. Not being sarcastic just going with the facts here.


In 1473 Columbus began his apprenticeship as business agent for the important Centurione, Di Negro and Spinola families of Genoa

Important families they were, I believe it was the Spinola family that started civil unrest when they decided to change the laws for civiliazation into a dictatorship, I think there was like a 150 year war or something

His initial 1492 voyage came at a critical time of growing national imperialism and economic competition between developing nation states seeking wealth from the establishment of trade routes and colonies. In this sociopolitical climate, Columbus's far-fetched scheme won the attention of Queen Isabella of Spain.

I think that statement speaks for itself.

About half of the financing was to come from private Italian investors, whom Columbus had already lined up. Financially broke after the Granada campaign, the monarchs left it to the royal treasurer to shift funds among various royal accounts on behalf of the enterprise. Columbus was to be made "Admiral of the Seas" and would receive a portion of all profits. The terms were unusually generous, but as his son later wrote, the monarchs did not really expect him to return.

I don't know what you would consider this but I beleive in today's society they call it money laundering and extortion.

According to the contract that Columbus made with King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella, if Columbus discovered any new islands or mainland, he would receive many high rewards. In terms of power, he would be given the rank of Admiral of the Ocean Sea and appointed Viceroy and Governor of all the new lands. He had the right to nominate three persons, from whom the sovereigns would choose one, for any office in the new lands. He would be entitled to 10 percent of all the revenues from the new lands in perpetuity; this part was denied to him in the contract, although it was one of his demands. Additionally, he would also have the option of buying one-eighth interest in any commercial venture with the new lands and receive one-eighth of the profits.

He was smart enough not to trust the royalty families but he forgot one thing, he who is law makes the laws.

Columbus was later arrested in 1500 and supplanted from these posts.

Now I am sure he must have done something to piss off royalty, he got no rights to nothing and ended up in jail.

August 3, 1492, Columbus departed from Palos de la Frontera with three ships; one larger carrack, Santa María, nicknamed Gallega (the Galician), and two smaller caravels, Pinta (the Painted) and Santa Clara, nicknamed Niña after her owner Juan Niño of Moguer.[14] They were property of Juan de la Cosa and the Pinzón brothers (Martin Alonzo and Vicente Yáñez), but the monarchs forced the Palos inhabitants to contribute to the expedition.

Extortion ??

"I could conquer the whole of them with 50 men, and govern them as I pleased."

His trip to the Bahamas !!

Before returning to Spain, Columbus also kidnapped some ten to twenty-five natives and took them back with him. Only seven or eight of the native Indians arrived in Spain alive, but they made quite an impression on Seville.

Kidnapping ??

This is the one that I remember from the 7th grade,,

During his second voyage, Columbus and his men instituted a policy in Hispaniola which has been referred to by numerous historians as genocide. The native Taino people of the island were systematically enslaved and murdered. Hundreds were rounded up and shipped to Europe to be sold; many died en route. For the rest of the population, Columbus demanded that all Taino under his control should bring the Spaniards gold. Those that didn't were to have their hands cut off.

And in the end,,

During Columbus's stint as governor and viceroy, he had been accused of governing tyrannically. "Even those who loved him [Columbus] had to admit the atrocities that had taken place.
As a result of these testimonies and without being allowed a word in his own defense, Columbus upon his return, had manacles placed on his arms and chains on his feet and was cast into prison to await return to Spain. He was 53 years old.


On October 1, 1500, Columbus and his two brothers, likewise in chains, were sent back to Spain. Once in Cádiz, a grieving Columbus wrote to a friend at court:

It is now seventeen years since I came to serve these princes with the Enterprise of the Indies. They made me pass eight of them in discussion, and at the end rejected it as a thing of jest. Nevertheless I persisted therein... Over there I have placed under their sovereignty more land than there is in Africa and Europe, and more than 1,700 islands... In seven years I, by the divine will, made that conquest. At a time when I was entitled to expect rewards and retirement, I was incontinently arrested and sent home loaded with chains... The accusation was brought out of malice on the basis of charges made by civilians who had revolted and wished to take possession on the land.... I beg your graces, with the zeal of faithful Christians in whom their Highnesses have confidence, to read all my papers, and to consider how I, who came from so far to serve these princes... now at the end of my days have been despoiled of my honor and my property without cause, wherein is neither justice nor mercy.[32]

According to testimony of 23 witnesses during his trial, Columbus regularly used barbaric acts of torture to govern Hispaniola.[26]

Columbus and his brothers lingered in jail for six weeks before the busy King Ferdinand ordered their release. Not long thereafter, the king and queen summoned the Columbus brothers to their presence at the Alhambra palace in Granada. There the royal couple heard the brothers' pleas; restored their freedom and their wealth; and, after much persuasion, agreed to fund Columbus's fourth voyage. But the door was firmly shut on Christopher Columbus's role as governor. From that point forward, Nicolás de Ovando y Cáceres was to be the new governor of the West Indies.





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