60 replies to this topic

[BlindedByScience]

Guys, I’ve thought about this for some time and have hesitated to post this, but my thoughts are the time is now.

What is a pass, anyway? It’s first and foremost, trust. Trust as in, I’m sending you hundreds, maybe thousands of dollars of smokes and I want you to be a responsible, mature, stand up guy and treat this box of sticks like you’d treat them if they were yours. That means you don’t leave town before it arrives, you don't leave it on the porch, you don’t put the box away and get to it a week later, you don’t “lose it”, you don’t send it out without DC’s and clear address verification of where it’s going, you don’t send it out without checking the humidity and making the adjustments required. You DO communicate and post your P’s and T’s promptly. You make your P’s and T’s responsibility after checking with a couple sources for value, you turn that pass as quickly as is humanly possible…..in short, you’re a good brother and steward of the package that’s entrusted to you. I can remember being horrified if I couldn’t turn a pass the same day it showed up….sadly, in some well known cases, that ethic seems to have gone by the wayside. And, that’s disappointing.

I know for a fact that more than one long time member has communicated to me..”…never again…” and that is the communities loss. Passes are how we share sticks, share knowledge, share the good stuff and generally have a great time. It has turned into an ordeal, a hassle, a babysitting job that some of us aren’t into, anymore. And, that’s sad. Unfortunate, for a forum based on the pass as a venue for getting distant folks involved. Unfortunate, for the wonderful opportunity of us all pulling together around our common love, the leaf.

I have no interest in calling out specific folks, busting chops, kicking any asses, or starting another round of forum drama. I would just like folks to think about what an honor it is to be accepted into a pass, and what responsibilities that entails. If you’re not up to it, don’t throw you hat into the ring. Pretty simple. There are many examples of great passes and train wreck passes here in these forums. If you have any questions, the answers are there for you, both good and bad. All you have to do is ask…you won’t fail if you ask questions and are prompt, and responsible. Passes aren’t the time to show off, they are times to take and put value for value, rarity for rarity, CC for CC and NC for NC….period. It just ain’t rocket science. They are a great opportunity to have fun, make some new friends, try some sticks you haven’t had before, and share our common passion. Please don’t wreck it for everyone else.

Just my thoughts….B.B.S.

[Jonesy]

I can remember being horrified if I couldn’t turn a pass the same day it showed up….sadly, in some well known cases, that ethic seems to have gone by the wayside. And, that’s disappointing.

I know for a fact that more than one long time member has communicated to me..”…never again…” and that is the communities loss.
Just my thoughts….B.B.S.

This is one of the reasons I don't host them anymore, but if I did, there would be no "Who wants to join a pass" post, it would be invite only.

I haven't been around as long as some of these other guys, but in my 4+ years or so, this community has taken a turn. Yes, we should expect turnover and with turnover comes change, but back in my early days, posts like these weren't necessary because there seemed to be a different "respect" level for the board, so to speak.

[JHolmes763]

I agree that participating in a pass is an honor and you shouldn't sign up unless you're dedicated to it. I kinda see a chicken and egg scenario starting, though. Seems to be quite a few new guys that want to get their feet wet, learn what to do and how to do it (or what not to do) and get that happy feeling from participating, but no one wants to start a pass for the reasons you stated (or will keep it private)...

[tomthirtysix]

Pretty much dead on, Tom. There are some things that have happened with recent passes, that I sit and think to myself, "What the *HELL* was that person thinking?" With the amount of disrespect that is shown by some passers, I'm surprised more hosts haven't just lost their minds.

[BlindedByScience]

I agree that participating in a pass is an honor and you shouldn't sign up unless you're dedicated to it. I kinda see a chicken and egg scenario starting, though. Seems to be quite a few new guys that want to get their feet wet, learn what to do and how to do it (or what not to do) and get that happy feeling from participating, but no one wants to start a pass for the reasons you stated (or will keep it private)...

I dont have an answer, John. Maybe you should start a new guy pass and see how it goes.

[2K6TBSS]

Thanks for the post Tom. Now I see why there have not been many passes started in the short time that I have been here. I can understand the hesitation of sending out a large quantity (and value) of cigars to people that won't take the proper care of the contents.

I hope to be able to have to opportunity to participate in a pass in the future.

[Audi_kraut]

I can't comment on how things have changed or how the forum/passes used to be run, so I'll take your word for it.

But as one of the very FNGs whom recently participated in a pass, I can say that the information is out there. So much can be learned by simple searching and reading, but you can't force anyone. From what I have seen though, the FOGs seem to do a good job of picking out the weeds. But even then, I get the vibe that the gardeners use to be less tolerant.

Thanks for posting this BBS, I'm sure many people have been biting their tongues.

edit* spelling

Edited by Audi_kraut, 28 August 2011 - 11:07 PM.

[JHolmes763]

I dont have an answer, John. Maybe you should start a new guy pass and see how it goes.

I wish I was in a position to do so, but the move to Europe and my "stock" consisting of less than a dozen cigars complicates things. I'm not a part of the solution and I definitely don't want to be a part of the problem... just voicing an agreeing opinion.

[Jonesy]

From what I have seen though, the FOGs seem to do a good job of picking out the weeds. But even then, I get the vibe that the gardeners use to be less tolerant.

No, it's not that the gardeners used to be less tolerant, it's that the garden was taken care of by a community in whole with each taking care of it as their own with due diligence. Some have left, some have passed, some just peek in from time to time, but the atmosphere has changed. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but some people just treat this community like all's it is, is an internet site where anything can be said or done. You have to earn your way around here and now some come through thinking they can make it their own to do what they please without putting in the time.

[BigSteve]

Hey BBS !! Thank you for the beautiful post ! It's too bad that some see the site as possibly taking a turn for the worse but let me tell you one thing. I've just come to CigarPass after years of putting up with true internet BS on another cigar forum site. I have to say that being new here hasn't allowed for a fair perspective on the changes here. However, the present CigarPass community is so much more friendly than other places. I mean, it's suppose to be people having fun and learning from each other. How the sites turn SO far away from that is a shame. I've made my mistakes here as a newbie and the tolerance shown me has been exceptional !! My timing here allowed me to go to the Quad Stae Herf and that only fortified my feelings about the people here. Truly willing to take me in as a BOTL and nurture my membership. OUTSTANDING !! I can't wait to participate in a pass at some point and hopefully the few that screw things up don't completely ruin a good thing. My 2 cents ............................

[BlindedByScience]

@BigSteve - I don't for a second think the forums are "taking a turn for the worse".....just needs a little course correction.....

There are without question some of the most knowledgable folks in the industry, right here in these pages. And, some great people choose to hang out as well. It's the frendships I've made over the years that keep me and many others coming back to the site.

I missed the QSH for the last couple of years, but I will be back again. Glad you had a great time.

[tone-ny]

Tom spot on, thanks for putting it out there for people to read and try to understand. We are Cigar Pass after all, but we've gotten away from the Pass part of late.

[insight]

I am debating canceling what was going to be the final 'lesson pass'. Would be the fifth year but after the bullshit I have had to deal with over the last few passes I am really pretty jaded on the idea.

[Tall Paul]

As a newbie here I wish all you FOGs didn't feel this waybut after all the extensive reading i have done over the past 3+ months i feel your fustration. It sucks that some just are out here doing what you say BBS. I made a mistake when I started here but have done my best to correct it. I wish there was someone out there to hold a Newbie Pass to give us legit new guys a chance. I love this site as whole from cigars, news, brew and friends...

Thanks for the post,
Paul

[Smokin'Sims]

I can remember being horrified if I couldn’t turn a pass the same day it showed up….sadly, in some well known cases, that ethic seems to have gone by the wayside. And, that’s disappointing.

I know for a fact that more than one long time member has communicated to me..”…never again…” and that is the communities loss.
Just my thoughts….B.B.S.

This is one of the reasons I don't host them anymore, but if I did, there would be no "Who wants to join a pass" post, it would be invite only.

My first past was hosted by Brian. I remember not being sure if my involvement in CP was enough and if my "stock" was up to standards. It was a fun pass. I understand his point of view for not hosting anymore and feel that it is a loss for new members.

[MX]

I dont have an answer, John. Maybe you should start a new guy pass and see how it goes.

I wish I was in a position to do so, but the move to Europe and my "stock" consisting of less than a dozen cigars complicates things. I'm not a part of the solution and I definitely don't want to be a part of the problem... just voicing an agreeing opinion.

I willbe hosting a welcome to NATO pass soon, actually not a pass, just going to run into John's new office and fart then run out, throwing cigars at him all the while.....

BBS you are really right on with your comments, I have been lucky to have been part of a few passes, most virtually, due to my location, but I have watched, read and learned so much from keeping up with passes that i was not even part of. Hell I even offended a well respected member of the board by the way I worded and asked a question, and for that i am very sorry. I hope that passes do not fall away completely, it is a huge part of helping BOTLs become Brothers with each other.

Phil, your last pass was a train wreck, I need to PM you on some of my thoughts about why, if you care to hear.....

Uber-Newb...out

T

[souldog]

I am debating canceling what was going to be the final 'lesson pass'. Would be the fifth year but after the bullshit I have had to deal with over the last few passes I am really pretty jaded on the idea.

You keep saying that, but I don't know man. There are some things that you could do differently. I'm no authority on passes, but yeah...there are things that could change.

Edited by souldog, 29 August 2011 - 11:11 PM.

[insight]

You have no idea what you are talking about

[souldog]

You have no idea what you are talking about

Fair enough Phil, but do know that you're my buddy, okay? I like you and I respect you.

[nfulton]

This is kind of a sad thread. When I first started here in '06 the passes were constantly crisscrossing the country. There were hiccups here and there, but for the most part things went pretty smoothly. My first pass was hosted by ggiese and was a strict, to the rules kind of pass. It was a riot. Over time I was part of several more passes and even ran a few. Though it was quite a bit of work, I really enjoyed doing it, and it allowed me to get to know some of the mugs that grace these parts. After seeing this thread I perused back over some of the pass threads to see what had brought CP to the point that caused BBS to start this thread. And I do see. What I saw more than anything is people failing to realize that running a pass take a lot of time, effort, and trust. When one receives a pass it is a one day commitment with a few posts and a modicum of thought. Then a quick trip to the PO and one is done to enjoy the contests and the banter for the rest of the pass. Not so for the person running the pass. They have to check, prod, approve, and keep an eye on it every day. They run contests with prizes that come free from their humidors. They have to check the thread constantly to keep questions answered and P&T's approved to keep it moving at a proper tempo. It is an everyday thing for what ends up being months in some cases.

What I see is a lot of people taking advantage of how much work people put into these. The occasional broken cigar happens, but when someone fails to keep it moving, doesn't post puts and takes in a timely manner, or at all, or screws up the list or the paperwork, or posts ludicrous puts and takes, that puts STRESS on the person who started the pass. As a passer I would expect the same respect from all of the passees that I gave them by putting things together and working hard to keep it going. I see a serious lack of that. I see people signing up because they want to be in the pass, but they don't want to put forth the effort that signing up implies. That is indeed sad.

Having said that, I returned to CP after my hiatus to enjoy the passes, the BS, and all of the fun that always came with CP. When my 9 months of participating are up and I can run a pass again I fully intend to. I am not going to let a few bad apples screw up the fun I've had on CP. And thank you for the thread, BBS. It is important to keep these things on the surface and open for discussion.