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SCHIP Update

The problem with compromising one something like this is that we lose something. I suppose it's better than paying unreasonable taxes but it is frustrating....
 
LibertyToad said:
The problem with compromising one something like this is that we lose something. I suppose it's better than paying unreasonable taxes but it is frustrating....
Click to expand...


The problem IMHO is not the taxes, but the sector they are choosing to tax, and the dog wagging that they are hiding behind. Taxing cigars to pay for a child's insurance in beyond ridiculous. There are much more appropriate areas to tax if needed. How about pulling funding from all the companies that market products for kids, food products sold to children during Saturday mornings, there have got to be better sources for the monies they need. And while we are at it, let's keep SCHIP for kids, and not families.

In my eyes the

" We are going to tax big evil tobacco to help save the helpless little children"

Is just a bit underhanded.

But then again, what do I know.......

Tim
 
MX said:
" We are going to tax big evil tobacco to help save the helpless little children"
Click to expand...

You got it MOSTLY right. Try "We are going to tax ANYBODY to help save ANYBODY". That is ridiculous. Taxes are stealing no matter how you look at it. The government has it's collective gun to the taxpayers head and if you step out of line you suffer very severe consequence.

Ery
 
Considering that even a layman can see how ridiculous this tax is, I wonder if it really has anything to do with the AMOUNT of money they can raise, but rather being able to "SAY" that they did two things. Whacked Evil Tobacco, and helped sick children/families. Political ammo.

If they really are dumb enough to fail seeing how counterproductive this is, at so many levels, we are in deep doodoo with that caliber of legislators.
 
We're a minority - a not very popular minority. It makes those who don't think past the initial emotion of the topic get all warm and fuzzy and look at the legislators who have climbed up on those soap boxes as knights in shining armor - and another vote in the ballot box: chaching. I believe the politician who are for this are for it for very cynical reasons that have nothing to do with anything productive for the well being of the nation.

Sux to be us.
 
Crap like this program makes me wonder what the hell I was thinking when I joined the Army to defend this great nation. I paid a high price for the freedoms I enjoy and here they are going to strip the last thing that keeps me sane while I fight my losing battle to being in a wheel chair. I get screwed enough by the VA and now crap like this.

It will pass because all the bandwagoners that want smoking gone will vote for it. B&M shops will close down because of it. People will start quitting smoking as the burden of price will be so unbearable. Then as the program guarantees the money, they will have to target other areas of your life to make up for the lost revenue. If you own a home or car, the taxes will increase significantly. The next step will be to either increase taxes on alcohol or renter's tax. Since they don't have to pay taxes on their apartment. Finally you will see GPS's in vehicles so they can start taxing the miles you drive on the road.

This crap makes me want to move to a different country. As the VA has to pay for my medical care no matter where I am at in the world. I guess that little benefit is a huge plus. Grrrrrrr!!!!
 
<political post considered, and rejected>

However, within the scope of the topic, if you voted for liberals, you voted for SCHIP.
 
Mr Peat said:
Crap like this program makes me wonder what the hell I was thinking when I joined the Army to defend this great nation. I paid a high price for the freedoms I enjoy and here they are going to strip the last thing that keeps me sane while I fight my losing battle to being in a wheel chair. I get screwed enough by the VA and now crap like this.

It will pass because all the bandwagoners that want smoking gone will vote for it. B&M shops will close down because of it. People will start quitting smoking as the burden of price will be so unbearable. Then as the program guarantees the money, they will have to target other areas of your life to make up for the lost revenue. If you own a home or car, the taxes will increase significantly. The next step will be to either increase taxes on alcohol or renter's tax. Since they don't have to pay taxes on their apartment. Finally you will see GPS's in vehicles so they can start taxing the miles you drive on the road.

This crap makes me want to move to a different country. As the VA has to pay for my medical care no matter where I am at in the world. I guess that little benefit is a huge plus. Grrrrrrr!!!!
Click to expand...


Hey I live in an other part of the world, and believe me its the same everywhere!

Rene
 
THIS JUST IN!!!

SCHIP Legislation Introduced Including
40-cent Cap on Premium Cigars International Premium Cigar & Pipe Retailers Association (IPCPR)


Bill Looks for Easy Passage Through House of Representatives--House May Vote as Early as Thursday

January 13, 2009 - The latest version of the State Children's Health Insurance Program (SCHIP), HR2, has been officially introduced in House Ways & Means Committee. The industry compromise on the revised tax rate on large cigars has been incorporated into HR2. The new tax rate will be 52.4% with a maximum tax cap on any one cigar at 40 cents per cigar.

In previous versions of SCHIP legislation, the tax cap rate held at $3 per cigar. Your trade association and its federal lobbyists, working in conjunction with the Cigar Association of America, our industry came together to agressively challenge the distasterous, proposed $3 tax cap, and get the substantially reduced to the more sustainable 40-cent tax cap.

The IPCPR also recognizes the work of the associate members of your association, who were a key component in educating to Congress on our industry. Thank you to our retail members and their customers for supporting our aggressive grassroots efforts.

While HR2 looks to breeze through the House, it may have a slower journey through the Senate, though we do not expect any direct changes to the tax cap rate.

SCHIP Legislation Details

The new tax rates are effective April 1, 2009;

The cigarette tax rate goes from $.39 per pack to $1.00 per pack;
The tax on snuff goes from $.585 per pound to $1.50 per pound;
The tax on pipe tobacco goes from $1.0969 per pound to $2.8126 per pound;
The tax on RYO goes from $1.0969 per pound to $24.62 per pound (not a typo).
Additionally the definition of RYO has been expanded to include cigar wrappers to address the "blunt wraps" issue;
The tax change to small cigars (cigars weighing less the three (3) pounds per thousand will be phased in over five (5) years at the following rates per year:
2009 & 2010 - $.25 per pack
2011 & 2012 - $.50 per pack
2013 & 2014 - $.75 per pack
2015 and beyond - $1.00 per pack

We were successful in continuing to have the floor tax NOT apply to large cigars; however it does pertain to any other tobacco products.
The International Premium Cigar & Pipe Retailers Association (IPCPR) is a not-for-profit trade association organized as the advocate for the independent retail tobacconist and recognized as the "Voice of Authority and Reason" on premium tobacco related issues.

International Premium Cigar & Pipe Retailers Association (IPCPR)
Chris McCalla
Legislative Director
 
"We were successful in continuing to have the floor tax NOT apply to large cigars"....

That means no Tax on cigars we smoke?...larger ring sizes?
 
ironpeddler said:
"We were successful in continuing to have the floor tax NOT apply to large cigars"....

That means no Tax on cigars we smoke?...larger ring sizes?
Click to expand...

I think the 'floor tax' segment was a tax on inventory shops already had. That was going to be a huge part of the problem. If I'm reading it correctly, the tax (if passed) will only be on new orders, instead of both new and existing stock.
 
Edit: Copyrighted material removed by author.
 
tomthirtysix said:
ironpeddler said:
"We were successful in continuing to have the floor tax NOT apply to large cigars"....

That means no Tax on cigars we smoke?...larger ring sizes?
Click to expand...

I think the 'floor tax' segment was a tax on inventory shops already had. That was going to be a huge part of the problem. If I'm reading it correctly, the tax (if passed) will only be on new orders, instead of both new and existing stock.
Click to expand...
Correct!!!
 
Cigahs said:
THIS JUST IN!!!

SCHIP Legislation Introduced Including
40-cent Cap on Premium Cigars International Premium Cigar & Pipe Retailers Association (IPCPR)


Bill Looks for Easy Passage Through House of Representatives--House May Vote as Early as Thursday

January 13, 2009 - The latest version of the State Children's Health Insurance Program (SCHIP), HR2, has been officially introduced in House Ways & Means Committee. The industry compromise on the revised tax rate on large cigars has been incorporated into HR2. The new tax rate will be 52.4% with a maximum tax cap on any one cigar at 40 cents per cigar.

In previous versions of SCHIP legislation, the tax cap rate held at $3 per cigar. Your trade association and its federal lobbyists, working in conjunction with the Cigar Association of America, our industry came together to agressively challenge the distasterous, proposed $3 tax cap, and get the substantially reduced to the more sustainable 40-cent tax cap.

The IPCPR also recognizes the work of the associate members of your association, who were a key component in educating to Congress on our industry. Thank you to our retail members and their customers for supporting our aggressive grassroots efforts.

While HR2 looks to breeze through the House, it may have a slower journey through the Senate, though we do not expect any direct changes to the tax cap rate.

SCHIP Legislation Details

The new tax rates are effective April 1, 2009;

The cigarette tax rate goes from $.39 per pack to $1.00 per pack;
The tax on snuff goes from $.585 per pound to $1.50 per pound;
The tax on pipe tobacco goes from $1.0969 per pound to $2.8126 per pound;
The tax on RYO goes from $1.0969 per pound to $24.62 per pound (not a typo).
Additionally the definition of RYO has been expanded to include cigar wrappers to address the "blunt wraps" issue;
The tax change to small cigars (cigars weighing less the three (3) pounds per thousand will be phased in over five (5) years at the following rates per year:
2009 & 2010 - $.25 per pack
2011 & 2012 - $.50 per pack
2013 & 2014 - $.75 per pack
2015 and beyond - $1.00 per pack

We were successful in continuing to have the floor tax NOT apply to large cigars; however it does pertain to any other tobacco products.
The International Premium Cigar & Pipe Retailers Association (IPCPR) is a not-for-profit trade association organized as the advocate for the independent retail tobacconist and recognized as the "Voice of Authority and Reason" on premium tobacco related issues.

International Premium Cigar & Pipe Retailers Association (IPCPR)
Chris McCalla
Legislative Director
Click to expand...



I just got the same email.
 
NullSmurf said:
<political post considered, and rejected>

However, within the scope of the topic, if you voted for liberals, you voted for SCHIP.
Click to expand...

Bruce, don't forget there are a lot of Minnesotans on this board who will sigh and grimace upon reading your post. Our Republican Governor, Tim Pawlenty, who some might remember as the guy that McCain probably should have chosen as running mate, has signed every single piece of anti-tobacco legislation to pass over his desk. He also reminds us every so often that he will continue to sign anything anti-tobacco that is placed in front of him.

Pawlenty is not the exception, he is the rule.

I, personally, believe that we have been fighting the wrong battle from day one. As long as we fight as 'Tobacco', we are doomed. If we fight for equality apart from 'Cigarettes', we have a chance.

Take this 'Third-Hand' smoke that has been discussed so often in the media. They talk of all these contaminents left behind by cigarettes, mainly because of the additives in cigarettes. There was a post here that addressed it, and everyone thought "Great, more bullshit." Maybe it is, but it isn't something we should even be addressing. Cigars and pipe tobacco don't have those additives.

We need to break out from the Tobacco Umbrella. Let cigarette smokers fight their own losing battle. All the stats are on them. Not us.
 
No offense taken, Mick. Notice that I didn't reference party, but rather inclination. That does include Republicans as well as Democrats. Much as I'd like to continue a civil discussion on this, lets leave it alone. I shouldn't have posted.
 
I guess pipe smoking is set to become a little less affordable.

What's the over/under on when the taxes collected no longer meet the funding needed for this program?
 
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