The Evil Dr. Moki's Group Blind Taste Test #2

moki said:

tsmckenney said:

Hmmm. I'll have to revisit this cigar. I love the Cameroon characteristics, but it just didn't have any bite.

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Yeah people who like stronger cigars may not enjoy this cigar... Stanford wasn't a fan of very powerful smokes. It does have some very nice medium bodied flavors, though... and is very smooth and well made. Try the Cuesta-Rey SGs for a little more oomf.

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The Pyramid like this is good. I havn't had one in some time. I gave them a rest as they are not as strong as I'm use too! :laugh:

moki said:

The observant will note that once again, the reviews are all over the map in terms of ratings, flavors tasted, etc. This doesn't reflect on anyone's acumen in reviewing cigars, but rather just the natural variance in personal tasting/enjoyment. Did everyone smoke the same cigar? Yes they did.

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I gotta wonder if Grapes got a bad one. The bad stuff he was tasting in there is 180-degrees different than what I was tasting. I'm gonna hook him up after I get a box.

This just goes to show....I aint gotta clue!! :laugh: I knew it was cameroon, but never would've guessed Cuesta Rey. I've only had one (Torp) a while back and remember it was pretty good. Just too mild for my palate.

Very nice curveball, Andrew.

This cigar just doesn't "do it" for me. I've smoked through a dozen and they just don't appeal to me. *shrugs* I'll keep my Olivas .

Very interesting! I've never had one of the Stanford's Cameroon Reserves but the Centro Fino Sungrowns were a regular in my rotation about a year and a half ago. I think it may be time to revisit them. Great job btw guys.... much braver souls than I!

moki said:

The observant will note that once again, the reviews are all over the map in terms of ratings, flavors tasted, etc. This doesn't reflect on anyone's acumen in reviewing cigars, but rather just the natural variance in personal tasting/enjoyment. Did everyone smoke the same cigar? Yes they did.

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I don't know Andrew. If you look at what Nimrod highlighted below, it looks like a pretty common theme amongst all of us on the flavors, and profile for the most part. Even if not all of us liked it.

I thought about this Cameroon Reserve as my guess for a minute, but instead of going with my gut, I decided you might throw us a curve with a premium cigar. Even after I told myself "just because you like it, doesn't mean it's a premium. Just think, I sometimes smoke these and the pyramides while tooling around in the garage.

Nimrod said:

moki said:

Cigar #3 review

ELittle said:
Review: toasty nutty flavor.
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insight said:
Review: First third: mild, with a subtle, woody flavor. Nosing the cigar is totally effortless, I can't even tell the smoke is there.
Second third: There is a nuttiness to the smoke and it becomes less wispy and more creamy.
Final third: pronounced leathery finish
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Kingantz said:
Review: medium brown wrapper
Beginning 1/3
making a few starter puffs there’s just not much smoke coming through. What does come through is mild and has a nice toasted nut flavor to it....faint touch of cinnamon spice.
Middle 1/3
The burn continues to be sharp...has a good, nutty sweet flavor...slight amount of cinnamon spice on the back of the throat.
Final 1/3
still mild with toasted nut and sweet honey flavors. I find that the spice on the back of the throat does pick up a notch

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bfisher88 said:
Review: Very smooth nutty flavors.
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enerjay said:
Review: EARTH,WOODY flavor and real mild. Pine and grassy flavor is what I picking up. Really white ash hint of gray.
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Napa_Smokes said:
Review:
First 1/3: I get a lot of toasted nuts and coffee off the start of this cigar.
Second 1/3:little cocoa flavor has been added and a sharpness to the cigar...more difficult to get a lot of smoke out of.
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jfields said:
Review: 1st Third: slight sweet and creamy taste. ...with some wood and nut flavors.
2nd Third: Wrapper explodes revealing a very thin fragile wrapper. Smooth and mild smoke... creamy, nutty, woody, and very earthy. All despite the draw not being up to par
3rd third: (8) I'm guessing from the ever present sweetness that the wrapper is Cameroon. ... The flavor and spice pick it up a notch. I notice a little black pepper and leather mixed in with everything else at this point.
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BlindedByScience said:
Review: Summary: ...very mild, very smooth cigar.
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Seanholio said:
Review: ...nutty, slightly chocolaty flavor, with nearly-subliminal hints of berry underneath.
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Cigar #3 is actually a...

Cuesta-Rey Stanford's Cameroon Reserve Churchill No.1 (2008) - price*: $5.70

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Cameroons is my favorite wrapper on a cigar. I have been searching and trying all different Cameroon cigars out there.
This one was definitely good. I liked it so much, in the Pass I am currently in, I traded for one.

Are they mild? Yes. I normally have these early in the morning with not much in my stomach.
The characteristics I would describe a Cameroon is almost exactly what people said above.
toasty nutty flavor, woody flavor, nuttiness, leathery, sharp and spice.

A couple of the reviewers mentioned the almost non-existence smoke coming through the cigar when they puff.
Why is that? I have no idea, but Cameroons do not seem to have the ability to make billows and billows of smoke.

To date the Cameroon that had the biggest bite IMO was the CAO L'Anniv.

Edit: One other note is the thin and fragile wrapper. These crack easy. Might think about getting wet before lighting.

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This really surprised me. Ive smoked centro fino SGs before, but never this camaroon. I really enjoyed it and will probably pick up a few.

jfields said:

I don't know Andrew. If you look at what Nimrod highlighted below, it looks like a pretty common theme amongst all of us on the flavors, and profile for the most part. Even if not all of us liked it.

I thought about this Cameroon Reserve as my guess for a minute, but instead of going with my gut, I decided you might throw us a curve with a premium cigar. Even after I told myself "just because you like it, doesn't mean it's a premium. Just think, I sometimes smoke these and the pyramides while tooling around in the garage.

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Yeah, good point, a decent number of the flavors tasted were similar... but the reviews varied pretty widely in terms of whether they liked it or not, whether it was mild or medium, etc.

Regardless, I guess my point was that consensus when it comes to taste is essentially impossible amongst a reasonable sample size.

Cigar #4 review



ELittle said:

Rating: First 1/3rd: 8/10 - Middle 1/3rd: 7/10 - Last 1/3rd: 7/10 - Overall: 7.3/10

Price: $11.00

Review: This cigar has a veiny and oily wrapper. The draw is great. It starts off about medium in strength, with nice creamy notes and a slightly sweet flavor I can't place. The burn is nice and sharp for the first third.

In the second third the flavors are getting more complex and mingling with each other. It's still about mild to medium in strength and is very good.

The final third is just as good as the last third. A nutty taste has developed for me as well as a little more spice. An acrid taste I thought was present went away almost as soon as I noticed it and the rest of the cigar was good.

Overall an excellent cigar!

I think this is an $11 stick.

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insight said:

Rating: First 1/3rd: 6/10 - Middle 1/3rd: 8/10 - Last 1/3rd: 8/10 - Overall: 7.3/10

Price: $10.00

Review: First third: Starts off a bit sweet, with caramel flavor and a medium body. It seems well aged to me, with pronounced flavor less the harshness of youth. The burn is really fubar, however, with it tunneling on different sides multiple times. Without the burn issues mandating touch ups and screwing with the flavor a bit, the first third would have gotten a higher score.

Second third: The transition into the middle of the cigar brings an earth, floral flavor that is very enjoyable. There isn't much variation but just as it moves into the home stretch there is a sudden albeit brief chocolate flavor.

Final Third: I would call the theme of the final third sort of a mocha flavor, which is a bit different. The cocoa element is not sweet but rich, like a heavy cacao dark chocolate and the coffee flavor is very light. There is a pleasant tobacco finish without so much lingering that it becomes annyoing. At the very end some bitterness creeps in but I never let the cigar heat up to the point it was detracting. Like #3, I enjoyed this cigar quite a bit.

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Kingantz said:

Rating: First 1/3rd: 6/10 - Middle 1/3rd: 6/10 - Last 1/3rd: 6/10 - Overall: 6/10

Price: $11.00

Review: What a picture perfect day! 60ish temps, slight breeze, blue sky with a few lazy clouds floating past. I’m hoping that stick No. 4 is a good one to spend the afternoon with. Let’s find out, shall we? The wrapper is a nice medium brown with not much by way of oils showing, and I notice a lot of small black specks of “tooth”. Construction is good, the leaf smooth with small veins intertwining throughout. There’s a slight give when squeezing, and I find a few soft spots, however nothing too serious. It has a decent enough weight, maybe a tad bit on the light side, with very nice bunching in the foot. I’m not getting much smell from the foot, however once the cap was punched, the draw, which had almost a perfect resistance, tasted of buttery cocoa.

Beginning 1/3
The wife and baby girl came out to enjoy the beautiful day, so I held off on the lighting to have some family fun time. However, they’ve now gone back in, and I’m ready to put fire to the foot and see what this cigar will do. I use my trusty Zippo with the Z-Plus and torch the foot, starting in the center and working my way outwards in a circular motion every so slowly. I stop, blow on the embers, and watch to make sure there’s glowing reddish-orange engulfing the entire foot. If not, I quickly do a touch up torch and blow again. Once lit, I take a couple puffs to get the smoke flowing good, tasting and smelling as I do to get my an initial thought on what is to come. Ah here we go! First draw, and there is a perfect amount white pepper spice that hits the back of the throat. The smoke itself is a nice mild-medium body, very creamy and light on the palate. However, exhaling through both the mouth and nose, I’m not detecting much by way of flavor. It’s as if the cigar has reached its peak and has past it, like a flavor was there but now gone. Not sure if that makes much sense. Alas, no taste and no finish to my palate. Yet, somehow I’m finding the smoke quite satisfying. This is intensely strange to say the least. The burn is sharp with a medium gray ash forming that holds strong, and tooth mottled throughout.

Middle 1/3
Towards the middle, I’m getting a very light nuttiness in the creamy, almost buttery mild-medium bodied smoke. There’s still a nice white pepper spice on the back of the throat, and basically nothing as far as finish. The burn continues to be sharp with a strong, medium gray ash, and a very good draw.

Final 1/3
Finishing up, the final third smoked a bit hot, and I got a flavor of straightforward charred tobacco on the palate. The spice was still there and the smoke a mild to medium body. There was a very short finish coming through, not all too unpleasant. The burn was perfect all the way to the end.

Summary: I have to say that although there wasn’t much real flavor in the smoke, I still did enjoy it. The mild to medium bodied smoke was very light and that of sweet, creamy butter on the palate. Not to mention a perfect amount of spice. It had an exceptional burn with a strong, medium gray ash. Not bad at all

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bfisher88 said:

Rating: First 1/3rd: 3/10 - Middle 1/3rd: 2/10 - Last 1/3rd: 2/10 - Overall: 2.3/10

Price: $4.50

Review: I did not care for this cigar at all. Even though it had a very nice draw and burn. The flavors were just too bitter for me. Every once in a while I would get a few puffs and want to throw the cigar out because the taste was so sweet and bitter I almost couldn't stand it. Really don't have any idea on what this could be but I did not enjoy it at all.

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enerjay said:

Rating: First 1/3rd: 8/10 - Middle 1/3rd: 8/10 - Last 1/3rd: 8/10 - Overall: 8/10

Price: $7.00

Review: First 1/3rd: 8 EIGHT this cigar was very smooth, Floral and sweet to start. good looking stick with nice even burn.

Middle 1/3rd: 8 EIGHT. Still with a nice even burn Floral drifted away leaving a nice creamy taste.

Final 1/3rd: 8 EIGHT. Very smooth on the finish creamy flavor still holding with maybe a hint of coffee.

Summary: Pretty nice smoke. I could give this cigar to anyone. Very nice draw even burn nothing to strong or harsh.
Creamy flavor was present all the way with a finish of coffee perhaps. I smoke it right to the end.

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Napa_Smokes said:

Rating: n/a - did not submit review

Price: n/a - did not submit review

Review: n/a - did not submit review

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jfields said:

Rating: First 1/3rd: 4/10 - Middle 1/3rd: 4/10 - Last 1/3rd: 4/10 - Overall: 4/10

Price: $4.50

Review: Hard to say what I am tasting. Flavors are really muted and almost non existent. Seems like this cigar is either way past it's peak (just guessing from appearance of wrapper with no oils), or not much effort put into it's production. It does however, leave a somewhat pleasant taste sensation on the tounge after draws. Even if the finish is very short..........4

2nd: Same as the first third. A one dimensional flavor coming through. I'm thinking it's a little leather, and that's about it. Not unpleasant, but not my cup of tea either..........4

3rd: Nothing much has changed. The leather is a little more pronounced and that's about it. With about an inch and a half left, I chucked it since my throat was starting to really burn.......Blech!!!............4

Summary: A very boring smoke that I'd be surprised to find was still very young. I might smoke one if someone handed it to me just to be polite, but that's it. I'll be shocked if this is some sought after smoke.


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grateful1 said:

Rating: First 1/3rd: 8/10 - Middle 1/3rd: 3/10 - Last 1/3rd: 4/10 - Overall: 5/10

Price: $12.00

Review: Started like a champ...finished in the can. This wanted to be great, I'm not sure why it died out.

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BlindedByScience said:

Rating: First 1/3rd: 6/10 - Middle 1/3rd: 5/10 - Last 1/3rd: 4/10 - Overall: 5/10

Price: $6.00

Review: I have to preface this by saying this is my first cigar in a week due to a roaring head cold; hope I can still taste and smell....
Pre-cut aromas are very straightforward tobacco – no hints of other flavors. Clean cut – pre light shows the draw to be just about perfect. Some cocoa and chocolate tastes are apparent before the flame hits the foot. This cigar started off very plain, some nice simple and very basic tastes, but went downhill as it progressed. Second third was more and more bland….nothing good or bad enough to note. By the back third, it was getting a little bitter and maybe a bit hot on the tongue. An “OK” cigar…..I nubbed it hoping for some improvements but that didn’t happen. It was decent, but I wouldn’t seek out another. Maybe it was due to my leftover cold symptoms…not sure.

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Seanholio said:

Rating: First 1/3rd: 7/10 - Middle 1/3rd: 5/10 - Last 1/3rd: 3/10 - Overall: 5/10

Price: $12.00

Review: The cigar started off with a nice acidic vinegar taste that I really enjoyed, mellowing into a sweetness that was very pleasant. Great amounts of creamy smoke were very enjoyable.

After about 2", things began to flatten out, as the sweet began to fade and the taste began to neutralize to just smoky.

At the beginning of the first third, all I tasted was hot ash. I dumped it with 2 inches remaining.

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Lowest rating: bfisher88 2.3/10
Highest rating: enerjay 8/10
Average rating: 5.4/10

Lowest price: bfisher88/jfields $4.50
Highest price: grateful1 $12.00
Average price: $8.66

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Cigar #4 is actually a...



AF 858 Natural (2008) - price*: $3.72

Commentary: I must confess, I put this cigar in here hoping that everyone would rave about how good it is... because it is the humble (and inexpensive) AF 858 Natural. It's not aged at all, but rather right out of the box from 2008 (I ordered this box just for the test).

Sadly, that didn't happen... though we did have ELittle, Enerjay, and Insight really enjoying this cigar. Once again I will refrain from saying who thought it was an aged Cuban cigar.

Then on the other end of things, we have bfisher88 and grateful1 who absolutely hated this cigar... and some people in the middle who thought it was "okay". I'm hoping that one cigar in this review, we'll have everyone loving or everyone hating, but at this rate, consensus seems unlikely!

Several people stated that the cigar started quite nicely, but the finish was rough... perhaps a bit of age would bring them around? Meanwhile several people (interestingly enough, the people such as Insight, KingAntz, and ELittle who seemed to like this cigar) thought the cigar was well aged.

Did everyone smoke the same cigar? Yes they did (well, except for Napa_Smokes...). Great job guys... now onto #5!

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* Denotes the price I paid for this cigar, not necessarily the MSRP

moki said:

Napa_Smokes said:

Rating: n/a - did not submit review

Price: n/a - did not submit review

Review: n/a - did not submit review

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Incredibly thought provoking review, Grapes. Thanks!

Now THAT was a very interesting review! I don't think I've smoked an 858 natural before this one. Very good question, if age would help bring out any more flavor.

Elittle says "oily wrapper".

Which is different to what
Kingantz says "not much by way of oils showing" and
jfields says "no oils".

And when I look at the pic of the cigar I see mold. :sign: Edit: ( j/k. no mold)

I am curious as to why Elittle would see oil and others would see something different.
If Elittle saw no oils would he rate the cigar lower?
Interesting questions to ponder.

Edit: sarcasm. No mold. and clarify

moki said:

I'm hoping that one cigar in this review, we'll have everyone loving or everyone hating, but at this rate, consensus seems unlikely!

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I would really like to see a cigar that everyone agrees on one way or the other. It's hard to find a 'crowd pleaser', but if this round produces one I'll buy a box!

Nimrod said:

And when I look at the pic of the cigar I see mold.

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No, you don't see mold. I took the picture, that was absolutely not mold. Cigar rollers use a pectin-like substance to "glue" the wrapper down, especially when applying the cap. This is just a little leftover smudge of that.

I've had an 858 Natural before, and it was disappointing as well. I'm glad I have had a consistent experience with them. That first 1/2" was amazing, and then it steadily fell downhill. Like Gary said, the cigar really wanted to be great, but just couldn't get there.

I wouldn't be surprised if some of the variance isn't just in tastes but in product as well. With a $3 smoke my expectations for consistency are much lower than for a $10 smoke. That being said this is the single best surprise I have gotten during a blind review ever. I never smoked the natural 858s although I have enjoyed the maduro and the sungrown. I will ABSOLUTELY pick up a box of these.

Nimrod said:

And when I look at the pic of the cigar I see mold.

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...naah, Moki-san was in the last throngs of the same head cold I had and he "ahh-chood" just before the pic was taken.... :laugh:

That was my first 858. Interesting stuff, fellow reviewers...... About the same price as a Padron 2K. Might have to put a few away.....

Cheers, guys - B.B.S.

I'll admit I smoke mainly more expensive sticks. But the 858 maduro is a stick I always keep in stock. I've liked them for several years and as my tastes evolved to better cigars, I never outgrew this particular cigar. I enjoy them, and think they are a great deal.

Surprise! I've had a few of these at a HERF last year and found them to be decent for what they are. Nothing spectacular, but decent.

The sore throat I mentioned at the end of my review, turned into a nasty cold the next morning. I'm wondering if this might have skewed my impression of this cigar a bit.

moki said:

Nimrod said:

And when I look at the pic of the cigar I see mold.

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No, you don't see mold. I took the picture, that was absolutely not mold. Cigar rollers use a pectin-like substance to "glue" the wrapper down, especially when applying the cap. This is just a little leftover smudge of that.

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In my experience, AF Short Stories always seem to be lousy with this stuff. It's almost as though they've got snails rolling them or something.

This sure is a fun thread to follow. My appreciation to everyone involved!