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Cigar Pass Put/Take Rules Discussion

Gonz

Gonz

Ultra Runner
Joined
Mar 18, 2005
Messages
4,827
I've always used and participated by the old Cuban for Cuban, Non-cuban for non-cuban rule when it comes to puts and takes in cigar passes. However recently there's been a few passes that have not used this ruling, and allowed CC for NC and NC for CC. I'd like to get some opinions as to how people feel about this, either good or bad. I'm personally not sure how I feel about it. Besides the legality and morality that comes into play with Cuban cigars, they're still just tobacco rolled up that is from a particular country of origin. We don't frown on trading Nicaraguan puros for Dominican ones, why should it be any different when they're from Cuba?

What do you all feel are the pros and cons of allowing any cigar to be traded for any other cigar regardless of where it was manufactured?

Or has this discussion already taken place a while back and I was absent that day?
 
I'm a newbe, but I feel If rarity and cost match It shouldn't matter. I'm still learning
 
Personally I like the Cuban for Cuban, Non-cuban for non-cuban rule.
But it is really up the the person instigating the pass to make up the rules.
If they choose "non standard" rules for their pass, so be it.

that's my 2 cents.
 
I've only participated in a couple of passes, with only one allowing NCs for CCs. Personally, I don't have a problem with it. It's all up to the host, IMO. As junkman said, if that's the host's choice, so be it.
 
I think that if this is stated as part of the pass rules then hey who am I to cry out against it. I do think it can actually give some who are unsure about CC a chance to grab one and give it a try.

Jim
 
I don't see anything wrong with it as long as it's how the host wants the pass to run. I personally wouldn't do it in a pass I ran as I would want to keep a mixture of smokes. But hey, why not have a pass where you could only trade same blend for same blend! :laugh: :whistling: Wouldn't that be fun?
 
I think that when you have people with a large enough collection it does not pose as big of a problem. My NC collection is much larger then my CC collection. I think the NC for CC rule helps when people have less of one or the other. The way I see it is, if someone wants to do a CC for a CC they will one way or another.

Ed
 
The only reason I like the ISOM for ISOM, NC for NC rule is because it promotes (well, moreso forces) there to be a variety.

Let's say a pass starts with no "NC for NC & ISOM for ISOM rule" and it has X total cigars.
Let's say Y is the number of NC cigars, and Z is the number of ISOM.

In my opinion, there would be a tendency for the number of NC to increase the number of ISOMs to decrease. Not everyone in the US that joins a pass has many CC, for obvious reasons. If someone that doesn't have many CC's saw the opportunity to give up a premium NC to get a CC. It's the "prestige" and "ooh-ahhh" behind the CC that would cause this.

Just my $0.02.
 
I sort of like the CC for CC, NC for NC thing but I realize that some folks who wish to try CC may only be able to by offering an NC. On the other hand, maybe that is part of the point: that people with Cubans (who presumably know at least something about them) would be in a better position to trade them back and forth in a pass.

On the Pro side I'd say is that as long as the details of the pass are made clear up front, then why not?

On the Con side I'd say that I can foresee all sorts of potential problems arising regarding fair trades. Is a Padron 1964 Torpedo a fair trade for a Monte No. 2? Retail on the Padron is higher than the Monte No. 2 so one would think that the Padron is actually too valuable to use as the put. I dunno. What CC would you put for a rare Fuente like a Sand Shark or a Rising X? Limited or Regional Editions?

Just some food for thought.

- Tim
 
I'd be on the side of CC to CC and NC to NC pass rules. IMHO the pass starter should cover the basics up front and not deviate mid pass.

Would I trade a vintage say 70s or 80s CC for a AF Siglo 13? Maybe but they just don't match up. What value can you put on a 1990s OR Trini Fundador to match up with an 2000 OR Shark? Too many variables to match up for my tastes. Like I said passers establishes the rules for his pass, within the rules of cigar values.
 
I am sure it is apparent for those that have seen my passes that I am indifferent to the CC vs NC issue. I don't think it should bind trades in passes with experienced passers. To me if the value and rarity are pretty close it is all good. The caveat is I would be very hesitant to allow the current rules I use for passes (when they haven't been stolen by pirates) in a pass with people I don't know well or whom are fairly new. When you are dealing with folks that don't have much experience the risk, confusion and frustration all increase.
 
As everyone else said, it is ultimately up to the pass organizer. As Greg said, some keep it CC for CC, and NC for NC to keep a mixture. I have participated in a pass where NC for CC was allowed, and the pass creator, who originally put 7 or 8 CCs into the pass, received the box with none. It really all goes back to what the organizer approves.
 
I also like the CC for CC, and NC for NC rule. As stated above, it makes sure that the variety stays in tact. Otherwise, as jlada said, the tendency would be that the # of NC's would raise, while the # of CC's would decrease...generally speaking.
 
These are some great thoughts and reasons, keep 'em coming!
 
You should have done this in a poll Andy.

I like to open my options, and enjoy being in passes where you can do a NC for a Cuban cigar. I don't feel so limited. Saying that.......I'm just as happy to be in a pass where it's C for C, and NC for NC.
 
One thing I would say is I haven't seen removing the rule affect variety much at all honestly.
 
insight said:
I am sure it is apparent for those that have seen my passes that I am indifferent to the CC vs NC issue. I don't think it should bind trades in passes with experienced passers. To me if the value and rarity are pretty close it is all good. The caveat is I would be very hesitant to allow the current rules I use for passes (when they haven't been stolen by pirates) in a pass with people I don't know well or whom are fairly new. When you are dealing with folks that don't have much experience the risk, confusion and frustration all increase.
Click to expand...


The problem with that thought is...new folks tend to not even know the ropes on some non-cuban cigars.

It's not so much about cigars, as it is about the fun.

A rule of thumb, 'leave it better than you found it' and definatly not worse(eh, um...pirates!)

What about our international players....the exchange rates screw things up even more...so we talk in dollars...but that could skew a prices on even a non-cuban by 10's of dollars. Not to mention they can get cuban products legally.

Know your players and set the rules....whatever they are.
 
Some key points that have resonated with me are:

A potential disturbance in the balance of the pass, although it hasn't been decidedly demonstrated yet

A question of rarity and value

The idea that perhaps on high-end passes getting rid of the rule would allow easier trading of extremely hard to find and rare cigars.
 
Out of the handful of passes I've been in, I think only Phil's (kind of) current pass is the only one that allowed NC for CC. Personally, I like it that way. Of course, as Phil said, it's much easier when the people in your pass are people you know, as opposed to an open pass where you don't necessarily know everyone.

Some sort of balance in the putting and taking should be observed by the passers, though. I saw one person saw a pass that started with some CC ended up with none by the end. When I did my P/T for Phil's pass, I actually P: NC T: CC for one cigar, and then P: CC T: NC for another cigar, to try and keep the balance somewhat.

Tim and Anthony bring up interesting points about trading rare cigars with these rules. But I think something like that happens with very rare and/or aged cigars regardless of the country of origin.
 
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