Have you tried these yet? I had one the other day at my B&M. They are a little beyond my price point but I had to try one. I am a Camacho "nut" ! I love most of their cigars. I have a couple or more of every year of Liberty except the 2004 and 2008. The 2008 started off slow but really got good about 2 inches in. I got to save for at least 2 more and let them rest a whlie.