Holt's announces Padilla's demise?

[Devil Doc]

Wilkey,
Upon further reflection I'm fairly certain that there's something else at play here. I don't deny that some bad blood between Holt's and Padilla probably prompted this copy and the subsequent discontinuing of Holt's carrying Ernesto's line. Exactly what happened, I couldn't say, but Holt's has a decided slant towards anything manufactured by Fuente or Pepin, so it's entirely understandable that they would choose to support Pepin over Padilla. They are very quick to indicate whether or not a particular marca was rolled in either of these two factories, as this somehow indicates automatic higher quality over other brands. Take their current catalog, for example. 32 of the 82 pages are devoted to either Fuente or Pepin rolled cigars. Jorge Padron and Litto Gomez come in a distant 3rd at 4-5 pages each. I haven't been smoking for 30 years, but in the 12 that I have been I've never seen a vendor slam a manufacturer this way in print.

That's a very well-stated observation and I tend to agree. I would hazard that the enmity between Padron and Lew Rothman of JR Cigars would fall into the same class of relationship. However, JRC has never been quite so bald on their commerce site about attacking Padron products directly. The high concentration of Fuente and Pepin products has not gone unnoticed, not even by me. But then again, JR's catalog is heavy with the major Altadis brands (e.g., Romeo y Julieta, H. Upmann) and it does get tedious.

It also seems to me that the advertising copy in the Holt's catalog has started reaching further and further into hyperbole, teeming with all sorts of crazy, excessive descriptors. For example, in their October 2007 catalog (what I have next to me right now) you can find the following: mystifyingly dark, super-extensive natural fermentation, mouthwatering sweetness, scrumptious bouquet, enchantingly rich, profound complexity, like freshly brewed Kona coffee, mind-boggling blend, mouthwatering flavor, lavish notes of earth, oak, and chestnuts, cigar for the ages, bodacious blend, burns in outstanding fashion, rich meaty character, butternut-brown Corojo wrapper, wood, earth, cocoa, and mixed nuts (I wonder what kinds of nuts are in the mix. Cashews? Filberts? What, what?), wholesome hints (as opposed to what, perverted hints?) of oak, apricot, and cayenne pepper, assorted peppers (I can tell bell peppers from chiles, but what other peppers could they be talking about?), fresh cinnamon (I have never smelled cinnamon bark recently peeled off of a cinnamon or cassia tree but I presume it doesn't taste like the stuff in my Lawry's spice jar), pear, hickory, and tapioca (good god, they actually wrote tapioca!), hodgepodge of spices, aroma of earth and woodcuttings (wtf are woodcuttings?), and on and on and on.

What I have not done is an analysis of descriptors used correlated to brands or producers. It's not impossible that this is all part of a subtle attempt to shape the perceptions and expectations of these brands. For example, how many times do you need to read or hear that a cigar is "creamy" before you convince yourself that it is indeed "creamy?"

The Holt's I visited for the first time in the early '70's, is not the Holt's of today. Back in those days it was staffed by gray haired gentlemen in white shirts, black trousers and ties, who actually new something about tobacco, and took pride in their trade. It may have been a gentleman's business back then; I was really too young to know. There's a bunch of sharks in the business today,not much different than the antique business, where wolves in sheep's clothing abound.

Now that I think about it, the practice of telling customers mold is plume, price gouging, contrived rarity etc., only started after the publication of CA and the cigar boom. Those events are responsible for many of the ills in the business today. You can disagree with me, but I was there and the apologists for that publication will never change my mind.

Doc.

When cigars made the flip over from a way of life, to an accoutrement of an aspirational, acquisitive lifestyle, that is when it all went to hell in a hand basket.Wilkey

And, whose responsible for that? CA perhaps?

Doc.

 

[Ginseng]

wow those are some descriptions, what ever happened to earthy (dirt lol) or just good tasting blended TOBACCO.

Honestly, I wish I knew.

As a person with moderate (average) tasting ability, I cannot help but roll my eyes when I see stuff like this.

The thing that irks me about flowery descriptive language such as this is:

1) You should only use a given descriptor if you have actually had a meaningful experience with said sensory stimuli.
I've eaten a lot of chocolate chip cookies in my life and I have a fair amount of leather items and so I know and am familiar with what these two things smell like. If you've never smelled or tasted raw cashews, then by god, how can you say something smells or tastes like raw cashews?

If and only if condition 1 is satisfied, then...

2) You should use descriptors that are likely to make sense to your intended audience.
If a cigar presents aroma notes that are, to me, reminiscent of chocolate chip cookies or leather, then knowing that these are probably also familiar to the majority of CigarPassers, I can feel confident that using these descriptors might be meaningful and of use to the reader.

Now that said, I've also used the descriptor "fresh sugarcane" in a past review. However, when using an unusual or uncommon descriptor, it is the writer's obligation to attempt to make some connection to more common sensory experiences in an attempt to bridge the language. Otherwise, what significance could it possibly have to you if I said a cigar smelled of "Barbaro's hindquarters after a brisk 6 furlong trot through English heather."

The key point is to know your audience. If this were a cigar forum consisting solely of practiced and trained supertasters, then by all means use language that makes sense to that community.

Alrighty, I suppose it's time to hop off of this particular soapbox. :sign:

When cigars made the flip over from a way of life, to an accoutrement of an aspirational, acquisitive lifestyle, that is when it all went to hell in a hand basket.Wilkey

And, whose responsible for that? CA perhaps?

Doc.

Let's give the devil his due. CA was certainly a catalyst and a consequence of the times. Unfortunately, Shanken and crew latched onto the humble cigar to elevate it and their publishing empire into the vanguard of the consumptive 1990's.

Wilkey

 

[nhcigarfan]

I guess I'll have to stick to overseas distributors to demonstrate my frustration.

 

[NullSmurf]

I'm with Doc. I put this in the tabloid category. Here it is, run through my bullshit filter:

At one point in time, Ernesto Padilla was looked upon as a rising star in the cigar world. He was young and hungry, and he had a couple of lights-out, cutting edge cigars being manufactured by another rising star: Pepin Garcia. He also had a nice cigar being made in the Oliva factory. He received glowing ratings, lots of publicity, and all seemed to be going well for him. That was a couple years ago. Nowadays, the tide has taken an unfortunate turn for Padilla. Neither Pepin nor Oliva are making cigars for him anymore. We think this means one thing and one thing only: Padilla is on his way out... We have nothing against Padilla personally. In fact, we consider him to be a friend of ours. We simply do not want to get caught sitting on a ton of discontinued, sedentary, totally immobile inventory.

Therefore, we're cutting prices on all Padilla products bigtime! We're slashing prices on Padilla left and right, and blowing this stuff out from not 'till it's gone! Join in on the fun that is "Padilla Madness" and procure yourself some Padilla cigars today. Hey Ernie P., we've got one word for you and one word only: Buh-Bye.

 

[MadMonk]

Well, Some excellent comments in this thread. Not much more to add because it's already been stated, with quite a bit of skill.

I do, frankly, find Holt's and other some other catalogs, well, a bit silly. Adolescent at best.

I smoke cigars for pleasure and relaxation. Over hype will turn me off, and cause me to lose my trust in that vendor. If it has no merits, why sell it? The willingness to sell large quantities of inferior products, at the expense of quality seems to be at play here. And I find it disturbing.

 

[drew5337]

Sounds like someone pissed in someone else's cornflakes. Also sounds like Holt's bought too much and is looking to get out from under it.

Ernesto no-call no-showed for his Outlaw event with Pepin, and while I like some of his cigars, there's no way I'd buy them unless at closeout prices, for that fact alone.

Pepin on the other hand was a hoot. I hope that he doesn't get over extended, because the Pepin label are some gooood smokes.

 

[jcritt]

Pepin dropped Padilla when Holts took over distribution for Pepins product. I am sure part of the deal with Holts was Garcia had to cut ties with a number of people he is producing higher end cigars for. The Levins are spawn of the devil. = :laugh: They certainly must have their hands full now with the Ashton brand, Casa Fuente, handshake and asskissing of the Fuentes and now Pepin Garcia. I wonder when they're going to STICK IT to their GOOD FRIEND Pete Johnson that always makes sure they are stocked with his (PEPIN blended) Tatuaje brand. Oh yeah, you guys don't like him anyways :sign:

 

[Dozerhead]

wow those are some descriptions, what ever happened to earthy (dirt lol) or just good tasting blended TOBACCO.

Honestly, I wish I knew.

As a person with moderate (average) tasting ability, I cannot help but roll my eyes when I see stuff like this.

The thing that irks me about flowery descriptive language such as this is:

1) You should only use a given descriptor if you have actually had a meaningful experience with said sensory stimuli.
I've eaten a lot of chocolate chip cookies in my life and I have a fair amount of leather items and so I know and am familiar with what these two things smell like. If you've never smelled or tasted raw cashews, then by god, how can you say something smells or tastes like raw cashews?

If and only if condition 1 is satisfied, then...

2) You should use descriptors that are likely to make sense to your intended audience.
If a cigar presents aroma notes that are, to me, reminiscent of chocolate chip cookies or leather, then knowing that these are probably also familiar to the majority of CigarPassers, I can feel confident that using these descriptors might be meaningful and of use to the reader.

Now that said, I've also used the descriptor "fresh sugarcane" in a past review. However, when using an unusual or uncommon descriptor, it is the writer's obligation to attempt to make some connection to more common sensory experiences in an attempt to bridge the language. Otherwise, what significance could it possibly have to you if I said a cigar smelled of "Barbaro's hindquarters after a brisk 6 furlong trot through English heather."

The key point is to know your audience. If this were a cigar forum consisting solely of practiced and trained supertasters, then by all means use language that makes sense to that community.

Alrighty, I suppose it's time to hop off of this particular soapbox. :sign:

When cigars made the flip over from a way of life, to an accoutrement of an aspirational, acquisitive lifestyle, that is when it all went to hell in a hand basket.Wilkey

And, whose responsible for that? CA perhaps?

Doc.

Let's give the devil his due. CA was certainly a catalyst and a consequence of the times. Unfortunately, Shanken and crew latched onto the humble cigar to elevate it and their publishing empire into the vanguard of the consumptive 1990's.

Wilkey

I've always been curious if the people that write for those catalogs actually try the cigars they are trying to describe? It may more common with the lesser known brands than they major ones, but I've always wondered how they could write some of those descriptions with a straight face.

 

[KeyserSoze]

Not too fond of what Holts did by to air out the situation with Padilla. I don't see myself using or recommending them any time soon. As for the desciptions they put out (IMO), it's just good marketing. Not all cigar smokers are as educated as most of the members here. To be honest, if it wasn't for CP, I'd probably be one buying those tasty vanilla-hint of lemon-sweet cedar-with a chocolate spice cigars from the catalog. The knowledge this forum and it's members has provided me probably fast forwarded my cigar intelligence a good amount of years.

 

[Izzypizzy]

Unless there's some sort of back-story to this, with a very good explanation; I'm going to be reluctant to order from them in the future.

 

[Dave]

Seems like Holt's is not the only retailer to do a close out on Padillas...

Famous Padilla Miami 8/11
Famous Padilla 1932

Those are some pretty impressive prices and the words discontinued are also attention getting.

 

[ironpeddler]

Cigar Ad copy should be taken with a generous amount of salt. It's a tradition in the cigar industry to sling the B.S.

Doc.

I've read enough J.R. Cigar and Thompson's catalogs to be well aware of that, Doc. Most of the time the copy is slanted to make less-than-stellar products seem like the next Opus-that-nobody-knows-about, though. This one just seemed a bit over the top, especially for Holt's.

Doc's been puffing for 30-odd years. I think he's potentially got some unique perspective on the matter. I'd ask him whether he thinks this is typical or whether this is unusual from a historical sense. In light of the recent public (on vendor's sites and elsewhere) acrimony between manufacturers and dealers, I'd be curious to hear whether he thinks this becoming a trend.

I've always had this romantic vision of the cigar business as a gentleman's business. Maybe that's becoming an outdated model under contemporary pressures for profit and share. One would think that there would be customers aplenty to go around, but maybe this is not the case.

Wilkey

Wilkey...first off I must say how much I enjoy you posts...they remind me of my days in college when we slung the lexicon of the English language to a point of delirium....you make me think and that's refreshing.

I read that mailer this morning while drinking my morning coffee and smoking a new Trinidad Coloniales I just received. I was in agreement until the last line of the dialog, no gentlemen taught in a proper manor of cigar tradition wrote that, I assure you. I have been smoking cigars over 30 years and when I posted a topic for discussion concerning Black Cat Cigars in reference to Don Pepin Garcia ( it was lost after Rod had to reset the server) and how he felt he was mistreated by him personally, most of the responders here chalked it up to a common business deal gone awry and nothing more, that the emotional context was overstated....but I totally disagreed. I thought a hand shake was as good as a signed contract....that's the way MEN did business for many years and the way this indusrty was built.

There was a time when you went into a cigar shop and everyone there was in a suit, shirt and a tie....it was like going into a Men's Haberdasher. You were greeted in a manor not seen today, at the door by a person who gave you his undivided attention while you were there, most times making a recommendation in addition to your favorite brand and gifting you a cigar to try right then and there...he cut it, charred the tip, handed it to you and provided the light from a large cedar switch. A conversation then proceeded about the cigar, it's origins, and then a personal anecdote about it's maker. At that point you joined in a group conversation with all the others making purchases. There truly was a touch of romanticism to the whole buying experience. I still remember the smell of the shops when I went with my Uncle...the creaky wooden floors, all the cigar display cabinets filled with every conceivable brand with boxes stacked openly, the giant fans slowly spinning on the ceiling, add the sight of all the customers smoking cigars, talking, laughing....drinking scotch, bourbon, or port wine that was offered by the owner and sales staff. The smell of cigar smoke was intoxicating...I still feel it every time I walk into a cigar shop to this day. The same people were in these establishments for as long as I can remember...that level of tradition to this retail industry died with them. When you shopped in this type of environment, it demanded a certain amount of respect.

...and now I'm sounding like a FOG treading through a cynical society....lol

Now don't get me wrong, there are many, many fine cigar shops out there and I tend to frequent the smaller owner operator type establishment where there is a measure of passion behind their means of making a living. People that have learned, not only of the current brands, but about their past and how it got to this point...'students of the leaf' as I say. They take the time to tell you about trends in the industry and who's hot and who's not. Who's brand has increased in quality and who's has suffered. Honesty. When I visit a cigar shop, I want to learn something new, not rehash what we all already know in a battle of cigar knowledge. Salaries as they are today dictate a thinner staff, but our society has bred a generation of individuals bent on serving themselves, devoid of conversation and random interaction. I have been to Holt's many times and have had some very interesting conversations concerning new and old smokes, so that comment seemed out of place from what I have witnessed in the past. But then again, things change, as did their business model. I'm sure they will say that the person that wrote that was only involved with the advertising part of Holt's and in no way has any reflection on the retail side of the business or it's views. But it's sad to say, I see this trend becoming more common every day...you never read comments like this before....they were more of a 'back room' type of discussion. But we now live in the Internet era where personal blogs are a way of life and everyone wants their 15 minutes....a personal pulpit in a manor of speaking.

Since my time here at CP, my faith in this older tradition has been renewed...although it does lack the personal touch of physical contact the way I was taught by my cigar mentors. Bombing a guy with a UPS package pales in comparison to handing a person a carefully selected bunch of cigars and witnessing the look on his face...while receiving a much appreciated hug in return. But here at CP, this tradition is much more far reaching...it makes friends across the world...and that is the lure of this version of the cigar passion.
I enjoy being a old guy learning new tricks...keeps you young....although the notion of being called a "newbie" takes some getting used to.

Keep up the good work gentlemen.

 

[Tapewormboy]

Pepin dropped Padilla when Holts took over distribution for Pepins product.

This piece of information was also mentioned in the thread about Black Cat Cigar and Pepin, but I haven't heard of it elsewhere. Is this true?

 

[Ginseng]

I do, frankly, find Holt's and other some other catalogs, well, a bit silly. Adolescent at best.

I smoke cigars for pleasure and relaxation. Over hype will turn me off, and cause me to lose my trust in that vendor. If it has no merits, why sell it? The willingness to sell large quantities of inferior products, at the expense of quality seems to be at play here. And I find it disturbing.

Monk,
I'm with you on this one. I'd like to make up my own mind as far as the flavors in cigars. Trying too hard to tantalize the customer by presenting esoteric and perhaps unreasonable tasting profiles can result in frustration. I mean, is one to feel inferior if one cannot taste burnt seven-year-old Madagascar vanilla? The quality issue is a different one altogether and this brings to mind the thought that if one cannot convince through quality, then bedazzle by obfuscation.

Ironpeddler,
It is posts such as yours that keep on bringing me back. Well-framed, eloquent, and evocative. The most satisfying thing I've read on any cigar forum in a long time. CigarPass is fortunate to have members of your caliber.

Your account of the experience of cigar shops of old is a poignant one. Paradoxically, being a first generation Chinese immigrant, I have no recollection and no real first hand experience of such a thing...except in the case of the true gems, such as Iwan Ries, Red Carpet, and L. J. Peretti, that have been around for generations. I, like many contemporary smokers, I'd hazard, have appropriated this schema, this tradition as the model for the archetypical cigar shop experience. It is what one thinks of when one free-associates "cigar store." Alas it is a standard that the vast majority of establishments fail to live up to. Knowledgeable attendants are as rare as hens' teeth and presentation of product is as crass as a Richard Simmons informercial. Even in the best and largest of our local B&Ms, I always feel a little like I'm stealing out of an adult video store when I go to pay and leave. Why is that?

In cigar selling as in a multitude of other like businesses, the relationship between the buyer and seller can be complex and take on a gravity that does not and need not exist when buying a refrigerator. When I walk into a store these days I want, but know I won't get to feel like I am Winston Churchill himself. I'm not looking for deference, deals, or dazzle. I just want to know that the attendant is making a sincere, sensitive, effort to fulfill my needs and is earnest in his craft and generous in his knowledge. Sigh.

In any case, it was a sincere pleasure to read your thoughts on the matter. I do so hope that you'll feel free to share your ruminations. Simply, it raises the quality of the discourse here. I'll keep an eye for your posts in the future and should you ever find yourself passing through the mid-Atlantic region, please drop me a line.

Best regards,
Wilkey

 

[Fyodor]

Cigar Ad copy should be taken with a generous amount of salt. It's a tradition in the cigar industry to sling the B.S.

Doc.

I've read enough J.R. Cigar and Thompson's catalogs to be well aware of that, Doc. Most of the time the copy is slanted to make less-than-stellar products seem like the next Opus-that-nobody-knows-about, though. This one just seemed a bit over the top, especially for Holt's.

Doc's been puffing for 30-odd years. I think he's potentially got some unique perspective on the matter. I'd ask him whether he thinks this is typical or whether this is unusual from a historical sense. In light of the recent public (on vendor's sites and elsewhere) acrimony between manufacturers and dealers, I'd be curious to hear whether he thinks this becoming a trend.

I've always had this romantic vision of the cigar business as a gentleman's business. Maybe that's becoming an outdated model under contemporary pressures for profit and share. One would think that there would be customers aplenty to go around, but maybe this is not the case.

Wilkey

Wilkey...first off I must say how much I enjoy you posts...they remind me of my days in college when we slung the lexicon of the English language to a point of delirium....you make me think and that's refreshing.

I read that mailer this morning while drinking my morning coffee and smoking a new Trinidad Coloniales I just received. I was in agreement until the last line of the dialog, no gentlemen taught in a proper manor of cigar tradition wrote that, I assure you. I have been smoking cigars over 30 years and when I posted a topic for discussion concerning Black Cat Cigars in reference to Don Pepin Garcia ( it was lost after Rod had to reset the server) and how he felt he was mistreated by him personally, most of the responders here chalked it up to a common business deal gone awry and nothing more, that the emotional context was overstated....but I totally disagreed. I thought a hand shake was as good as a signed contract....that's the way MEN did business for many years and the way this indusrty was built.

There was a time when you went into a cigar shop and everyone there was in a suit, shirt and a tie....it was like going into a Men's Haberdasher. You were greeted in a manor not seen today, at the door by a person who gave you his undivided attention while you were there, most times making a recommendation in addition to your favorite brand and gifting you a cigar to try right then and there...he cut it, charred the tip, handed it to you and provided the light from a large cedar switch. A conversation then proceeded about the cigar, it's origins, and then a personal anecdote about it's maker. At that point you joined in a group conversation with all the others making purchases. There truly was a touch of romanticism to the whole buying experience. I still remember the smell of the shops when I went with my Uncle...the creaky wooden floors, all the cigar display cabinets filled with every conceivable brand with boxes stacked openly, the giant fans slowly spinning on the ceiling, add the sight of all the customers smoking cigars, talking, laughing....drinking scotch, bourbon, or port wine that was offered by the owner and sales staff. The smell of cigar smoke was intoxicating...I still feel it every time I walk into a cigar shop to this day. The same people were in these establishments for as long as I can remember...that level of tradition to this retail industry died with them. When you shopped in this type of environment, it demanded a certain amount of respect.

...and now I'm sounding like a FOG treading through a cynical society....lol

Now don't get me wrong, there are many, many fine cigar shops out there and I tend to frequent the smaller owner operator type establishment where there is a measure of passion behind their means of making a living. People that have learned, not only of the current brands, but about their past and how it got to this point...'students of the leaf' as I say. They take the time to tell you about trends in the industry and who's hot and who's not. Who's brand has increased in quality and who's has suffered. Honesty. When I visit a cigar shop, I want to learn something new, not rehash what we all already know in a battle of cigar knowledge. Salaries as they are today dictate a thinner staff, but our society has bred a generation of individuals bent on serving themselves, devoid of conversation and random interaction. I have been to Holt's many times and have had some very interesting conversations concerning new and old smokes, so that comment seemed out of place from what I have witnessed in the past. But then again, things change, as did their business model. I'm sure they will say that the person that wrote that was only involved with the advertising part of Holt's and in no way has any reflection on the retail side of the business or it's views. But it's sad to say, I see this trend becoming more common every day...you never read comments like this before....they were more of a 'back room' type of discussion. But we now live in the Internet era where personal blogs are a way of life and everyone wants their 15 minutes....a personal pulpit in a manor of speaking.

Since my time here at CP, my faith in this older tradition has been renewed...although it does lack the personal touch of physical contact the way I was taught by my cigar mentors. Bombing a guy with a UPS package pales in comparison to handing a person a carefully selected bunch of cigars and witnessing the look on his face...while receiving a much appreciated hug in return. But here at CP, this tradition is much more far reaching...it makes friends across the world...and that is the lure of this version of the cigar passion.
I enjoy being a old guy learning new tricks...keeps you young....although the notion of being called a "newbie" takes some getting used to.

Keep up the good work gentlemen.

That was a very fine post ironpeddler, and I for one will not consider you a newbie by any means from here on out. I wish things were today as you remember them in the past.

Unfortunately the present time doesn't resemble that at all. Gentlemanly treatment seems dead and greed and profit are much in style, as I'm sure it always was but at least they once had the common sense to treat you right before taking your money. Add that to the harsh nonsmoking movement and we don't have much to look forward to.

Please tell me I'm just paranoid, and thinking too negatively.

 

[Ginseng]

Unfortunately the present time doesn't resemble that at all. Gentlemanly treatment seems dead and greed and profit are much in style, as I'm sure it always was but at least they once had the common sense to treat you right before taking your money. Add that to the harsh nonsmoking movement and we don't have much to look forward to.

Please tell me I'm just paranoid, and thinking too negatively.

You're not paranoid. At least not by me.

I think that just means that we need to alter our expectations of the buying experience and enrich those venues that are under our control. Herfs, simple get-togethers, micro-one-on-one smokers. These have become the remaining opportunities for us to "live the dream."

Wilkey

 

[amateuraficionado]

There was a time when you went into a cigar shop and everyone there was in a suit, shirt and a tie....it was like going into a Men's Haberdasher. You were greeted in a manor not seen today, at the door by a person who gave you his undivided attention while you were there, most times making a recommendation in addition to your favorite brand and gifting you a cigar to try right then and there...he cut it, charred the tip, handed it to you and provided the light from a large cedar switch. A conversation then proceeded about the cigar, it's origins, and then a personal anecdote about it's maker. At that point you joined in a group conversation with all the others making purchases. There truly was a touch of romanticism to the whole buying experience.

The good old days..... I can't even imagine what it must've been like, but sure wish I could have experienced it. I went to Holts for the first time after the Herf on Saturday. Knowing what I know now, I might not have bought anything that day but I certainly wouldn't have spent as much as I did. I spent a good piece of change in their on Saturday. Not only did I not feel welcomed or experience a touch of "romanticism", I actually felt a little uncomfortable. The two gentlemen in the front of the store were very nice. The 3 or 4 working in the humidor.... a whole nother story. I felt like I was being watched the whole time. They must've asked me if I "needed help" or "did I find what I was lookin' for" about 3x, but not in a helpful way at all... and I know the difference! I even tried to make small talk with the guy who rang me up by commenting on their prices and selection and he was very terse, bordering on annoyed. Not at all what I expected based on the impression I got when first entering.

I wonder if we could get Ernesto to come on and weigh in on all this. Wouldn't be the first time...... click here.

 

[MadMonk]

Fyodor,
Paranoid? No. I don't think I'd go that far. But I do know that you, me, and others want that level of service and integrity.

Cigarpass helps in it's own way.

Perhaps our vendor members understand that concept better than others.
Perhaps some of us will go on to open shops which are molded after these ideas and ideals.
This is the day of Wal-Mart; the day of impersonal mega stores of every type.
I wonder if it is really that tough to be successful based on these principles we seem to agree on.
I suppose it takes guts, passion, sacrifices, and tenacity. It takes a love of the product and the people who use that product.
I suppose it takes us to support those who express these ideals.
I suppose that we can have that again some day, if we want it bad enough.

 

[Ginseng]

Well said, Monk.

While we often don't get the type of treatment that we would want or feel is merited, that doesn't mean we can't act as if we did. I always try to present a bit of class even when I'm not shown it if for no other reason than in the hopes that it might trigger a bit of reflection.

It's even sadder when you realize that the treatment formerly provided by corner cigar shops that catered to the average palooka can now typically be found only in luxury settings. Again, what was once a way of life is now emblematic of a lifestyle. From the rich to the hollow.

Wilkey

 

[Fyodor]

Great insight guys! Even though you confirm my suspicions I still feel better for it.


I think too many are wiling to accept the current status quo for things to change much in the larger picture any time soon. Forums like Cigar Pass do help in a few ways though. It enlightens us to the few places left that do have the old time sensibilities and integrity and it also brings the like minded community together here in these forums as a sanctuary in these troubled times.

It's a shame though that my favorite people to buy my cigars from are found online and I never actually meet face to face. We have really lost something great in this community but we must take what we can get. And to sort of paraphrase Wilkey, we will have to focus on what we have the power to influence and control and not worry so much about what we have no control over.