Important Lesson

[wam79]

I have been thinking about the Terri Schiavo case, and all that has been on the news about this. I'm not talking about the politics or who was right and wrong in the case. That's not a topic for CP.
I was wondering why so little was said about how this situation came about. If Terri Schiavo had her wishes written there would have been no controversy. I just want to say to the CP community to think about it. The time to discuss a living will, and what you do or do not want done for you, is when you are feeling ok. Stuff happens and thats why plans need to be made. I don't want my wife to have to make those decisions if I can't for myself. I wouldn't do that to her. We have talked about it and it's writen down. There's copies with my recordsat the HMO and a copy with our important papers. If she has to face that one day at least she will be sure what I want, and can prove it.
I Just felt it needs to be talked about. If you don't have a living will. Talk with the people that you trust. Most hospitals and Insurance plans have accsess to free or inexpensive advice on completing a living will. So many don't do it, but I think it's just as important as life insurance.

Bill

 

[camaroon4me]

Thanks for the post Bill. Thats sage advice for anyone. :thumbs:

John V.

 

[mrjinglesusa]

Great post Bill and sound advice for everyone. My wife and I talked about this and will be putting something into writing. :thumbs:

 

[Swissy]

my $.02 worth, as I have some insider knowledge on this.

As a firefighter/Emt in one of the busier stations here, I cannot tell you how many times I have been on a call, where someone was in baaaaaaaad shape. Sometimes lifesaving measures are needed drastically and yet family members are asking us not too, as it was their (the patient's) wish not to be held alive by 'heroic measures'. However, LEGALLY we are bound to act, unless there is a document that will stand in court (notorized, signed by doctor, etc..) We have even been threatened on scene because we were doing what we had to do. I've even seen someone get arrested on the spot for this, and it's not pretty.

it sucks, and all of the guys I work with hate these situations - and all it would take is a piece of paper stating your wishes. But don't just write them down... talk to your doctor, as each state has different laws regarding this. Some will take a handwritten paper as is, some will need a couple of witnesses, some will need to be drafted by lawyers and so on.

All I can say is we have ours signed and witnessed, our doc has a copy and theres one in our house safe.

Hopefully no one ever needs it...

 

[psyktek]

You can google this topic and find many sites, some free, where you can download an end-of-life form and a Power of Attorney. The latter is important, as it specifically designates the individual who is empowered to act in your behalf.
That document needs to be witnessed and notarized, the end of life statement does not. This is something that everyone who is concerned about their rights in this situation needs to do.

 

[CoventryCat86]

CC86's Notary Service
Price: One Havana and I'll notarize anything you need :laugh:

 

[YelloCello]

my $.02 worth, as I have some insider knowledge on this.

As a firefighter/Emt in one of the busier stations here, I cannot tell you how many times I have been on a call, where someone was in baaaaaaaad shape. Sometimes lifesaving measures are needed drastically and yet family members are asking us not too, as it was their (the patient's) wish not to be held alive by 'heroic measures'

Thanks Swissy, very important advice. I have to say though that I had always considered this to be an issue to be considered by relatives and the patient's doctors after the smoke had cleared from a crisis after the fact. I find it a little frightening that people are making those kinds of decisions in the heat of an emergency when not only is the outcome unclear, but perhaps even the cause. In addition, for most folks it is hard to think completely rationally when dealing with a life or death emergency situation with a family member. Are these clear cut cases where someone is obviously and irretreiveably "gone"?

Thanks in advance. Just to be clear, I'm not making a value judgement here...I think that is up to each family. I'm just suprised at how rapidly some people are comfortable making a decision.

 

[wam79]

my $.02 worth, as I have some insider knowledge on this.

As a firefighter/Emt in one of the busier stations here, I cannot tell you how many times I have been on a call, where someone was in baaaaaaaad shape. Sometimes lifesaving measures are needed drastically and yet family members are asking us not too, as it was their (the patient's) wish not to be held alive by 'heroic measures'

Thanks Swissy, very important advice. I have to say though that I had always considered this to be an issue to be considered by relatives and the patient's doctors after the smoke had cleared from a crisis after the fact. I find it a little frightening that people are making those kinds of decisions in the heat of an emergency when not only is the outcome unclear, but perhaps even the cause. In addition, for most folks it is hard to think completely rationally when dealing with a life or death emergency situation with a family member. Are these clear cut cases where someone is obviously and irretreiveably "gone"?

Thanks in advance. Just to be clear, I'm not making a value judgement here...I think that is up to each family. I'm just suprised at how rapidly some people are comfortable making a decision.

[snapback]176982[/snapback]​

What happens is the family has talked about this before, but never got it down on paper & legal. They know to tell the EMT, ER people , ect... Without this in writing medical personel can't withhold treatment. Some people who have been Ill know they don't want to have more treatment.
Most people who are healthy would get treated and if they need treatment stopped later it would be up to the person they named Power of Attorney for Medical Decisions.

 

[Mephiston]

Being in the service had advantages when it comes to this. All information was written and witnessed along with a will. if anything ever did happen i fealt secure that my family was in good hands.The only problem being a un-recoverable body (thats for another topic though).After the service i ran into A problem with a grandparent passing and her brother tried to do everything to get all the money and expensive items he could.He also had control of a bank account that was in access of a quarter mill anda safe deposit box.The only saveing factor was that all the remaining accounts were set up in trust to me.The only reason he had control of these was that he had been helping to pay bills ...etc. I ended up in court for a law suit over funeral expenses and spending so much time trying to deal with this back stabbing idiot that i wish i never had anything to do with it.A little more planning would have saved alot of headaches and i probably would not hate the brother like i do now.
Although this is not exactly the same situation as the post it is along the same lines.PLEASE if you do anything for your children or grandchildren make sure everything is written and clear and legal to avoid the last year of hell that i went through.I dont usually speak of this to anyone much less on a forum but hay you guys are mybotl's

 

[Swissy]

my $.02 worth, as I have some insider knowledge on this.

As a firefighter/Emt in one of the busier stations here, I cannot tell you how many times I have been on a call, where someone was in baaaaaaaad shape. Sometimes lifesaving measures are needed drastically and yet family members are asking us not too, as it was their (the patient's) wish not to be held alive by 'heroic measures'

Thanks Swissy, very important advice. I have to say though that I had always considered this to be an issue to be considered by relatives and the patient's doctors after the smoke had cleared from a crisis after the fact. I find it a little frightening that people are making those kinds of decisions in the heat of an emergency when not only is the outcome unclear, but perhaps even the cause. In addition, for most folks it is hard to think completely rationally when dealing with a life or death emergency situation with a family member. Are these clear cut cases where someone is obviously and irretreiveably "gone"?

Thanks in advance. Just to be clear, I'm not making a value judgement here...I think that is up to each family. I'm just suprised at how rapidly some people are comfortable making a decision.

[snapback]176982[/snapback]​

Well, it's hard to say sometimes if someone is -irretreiveably "gone"- obvious ones are just that, obvious (and I won't go into gory details...), but in regards to heart attacks and such, it's hard to say. I have been on codes where we're doing CPR for 20-30 minutes, shocking them with the lifepaks, and nothing ever happens for them. Others come around after a few shocks and they're mostly ok- I've had people walk into my fire station 3 days after we were working on them, to say thanks.

The problem with the families in this circumstance is basically they talk about it ahead of time, and they are fine with someone's choice to be/not be resuscitated. However, when the moment comes, they see their family member laying there and it's too much for them. Some try to make us resuscitate them (in the case where they have paperwork saying no) and others have even tried to make us NOT resuscitate them even with papers say yes they want to be. It puts us in a rather awkward position, either way. One good thing about having police respond with us on calls! usually they are able to pull the family aside and explain to them, along with whoever is incharge on our side of things. And if there is no paperwork whatsoever, then our only choice is to go ahead and runthe code, regardless of the family.

Now, not that we are heartless about this- we contact the hospital and the ER doctors, and explain the situation. The paramedic in charge will talk it over with the ER doc and the family (if possible) and depending on the situation, most of times we'll side with the families wishes - but it depends on the circumstance- terminal cancer, heart attack with unknown 'downtime', and so on. I've been to a number of these where we start CPR and 'herioc measures' and then some part into it we stop.

Bottom line is make sure your wishes are known by at least a few people around you, and it is done in a maner binding with your local/state laws. Best route is to check with your family doctor.

 

[opusxfiles]

wow...good thoughts from everyone. I am glad to see that this community also discusses heavy stuff when needed.

 

[BkCloud114]

Not really a subject that anyone want to discuss with their significant other, but one that needs to be discussed.

After Sept 11, you never know what could happen. It is so important that you discuss with your loved ones what your wishes are and to put them in writing.

It is terrible about Terri Schiavo, I believe that everything happens for a reason. Maybe that reason was to make everybody aware of what could happen and what you need to do.

RIP Terri and thank you for the lesson....

 

[Lumberg]

my $.02 worth, as I have some insider knowledge on this.

As a firefighter/Emt in one of the busier stations here, I cannot tell you how many times I have been on a call, where someone was in baaaaaaaad shape. Sometimes lifesaving measures are needed drastically and yet family members are asking us not too, as it was their (the patient's) wish not to be held alive by 'heroic measures'. However, LEGALLY we are bound to act, unless there is a document that will stand in court (notorized, signed by doctor, etc..) We have even been threatened on scene because we were doing what we had to do. I've even seen someone get arrested on the spot for this, and it's not pretty.

it sucks, and all of the guys I work with hate these situations - and all it would take is a piece of paper stating your wishes. But don't just write them down... talk to your doctor, as each state has different laws regarding this. Some will take a handwritten paper as is, some will need a couple of witnesses, some will need to be drafted by lawyers and so on.

All I can say is we have ours signed and witnessed, our doc has a copy and theres one in our house safe.

Hopefully no one ever needs it...

[snapback]176965[/snapback]​

That's really good to know. I know I paid a website $15 to get mine printed out all legal-like.

I wonder if it would be possible to get one of those Medic-Alert bracelets that says "no heroic measures." I guarantee you there's a market for them now.

 

[Smokin'Tone]

Take it from someone that didn't think he needed one. Put your wishes down on paper. I created one the first time I had my chest ripped open, because up until then, I thought I was never going to go. But... Anyway, do it. As we saw, a verbal cue isn't the same as a binding, legal written one. I made my wife do one also, because her family is of the ultra-religious. So be like Nike and Just Do It.