Should I just give up trying out non-Cuban version of..

[dlomonosov]

yea. thanks for the heads up. I have the reg robusto Sanch Panza with brown wrapper box pressed waiting to get smoked.. Maduro was OK. I will pick it over Maduro AF Rothschild which was bla.. Just bought AF 858 natural last night to try.. Then I will go into trying Double Chautau maduro and natural and Sun Grown Chautau and Cuban Belicoso that everyone loves. Also might pick up Hemi Short Story today to try the taste and Classic is than to follow. What is the difference between AF Chautau maduro and reg rothschild maduro? Also, what should I notice between natural 858 cameroon lets say and connecticut chautau ones taste wise and flavor?

 

[dlomonosov]

So if I think 858 Natural is bla, should i just skip Chatau natural and maduro and go straight to Sun Grown cuban belicoso and double chatau, and Hemis?

 

[MadMonk]

Keep in mind that your palate will develop. Your tastes will change, and you will also taste things in cigars that you couldnt a year or two ago. I.e., a those fuentes which taste fairly blah. You may find that if you try one in a year or two, that you enjoy it.

 

[dlomonosov]

thank. interesting. I think I just like more flavorfull tasty full body smokes with medium kick rather then mild and trying to see if I get a hint of wood or chocolate. interested to see how sun grown AF and Oliva O are..

Just spoke to the guy in local B&M that gifted me a $9 LFD DL Churchill Espacial Oscuro, that was probably my favorite so far! And he told me if I like that, and that is what he only smokes to try other brands with Oscuro Wrappers to get that aroma and flavor that sink in to the filler when blended. My Father Oscuro is next, so is 601 Green and LFD Ligero Oscuro L300..

Also tasted RASS a week ago and found it to be bla, but more flavorfull than tobaco tasting Bolivar Carona, both Cuban. Compared to wow factor I got from Cohiba Siglo II and Monte No.2 i smoked long time ago and want to revisit.

 

[vortex]

It's all a matter of personal tastes. And a willingness to try different things which you seem to be expressing to some degree. I can only do as others and give you my "list".

Punch Gran Puro was mentioned. They also make a Gran Cru blend that is mild but the Gran Cru Maduro Robusto has some unique flavors when aged for a couple years. ERDM, too. Both can be found with age if you call around. Atlantic turned up a box with a few years for me.

Speaking of which, that is fun. I always keep my eye out and ask for boxes of NCs with age.

I like the Monte Afrique with a Cameroon wrapper. JRs is a good source. Cammie wrappers are unique to NCs and are tasty! There are many NC Cammies. LFD lancero, Fuente Hemmie Nats, CAO Annys, to name a few.

Steve

 

[mjolnir01]

Just remember, any connection between the Cubans and their NC counterparts is purely name only. After Castro nationalized the cigar industry the owners of these brands fled and took their brands with them. All have been bought out by Altadis and General, and through the complex copyright laws/disputes, are allowed for sale in the US only. Some, like Aroma de Cuba were just conjured out of thin air because nobody owned the American copyright. Bottom line- these cigars are completely different than their Cuban counterparts and it's a fallacy to associate any similarities.

After I had been smoking cigars for about a year I had a similar epiphany to yours, dlomonosov. I just didn't like the General/Altadis blends as a whole as much as I liked Padrons and Fuentes. I had enjoyed Punches and Hoyos, but for the most part, the traditional Cuban label offerings didn't offer as much flavor for my developing palette. Then a friend at my local B&M turned me onto El Rey del Mundo Oscuros and I was blown away- hardly any strength and mild to medium body, but the tobacco core flavors were outstanding! Once I did a little research I figured out that the only traditional labels I ever liked were in fact Villazon smokes.

I don't light up the Villazon offerings as much as I used to, but I still enjoy one from time to time. One great thing about keeping a box or two of Villazon smokes on hand is that they're great moocher cigars for friends who may want to enjoy an occasional smoke with me but aren't as hard core about it as I am.

 

[dlomonosov]

It's all a matter of personal tastes. And a willingness to try different things which you seem to be expressing to some degree. I can only do as others and give you my "list".

Punch Gran Puro was mentioned. They also make a Gran Cru blend that is mild but the Gran Cru Maduro Robusto has some unique flavors when aged for a couple years. ERDM, too. Both can be found with age if you call around. Atlantic turned up a box with a few years for me.

Speaking of which, that is fun. I always keep my eye out and ask for boxes of NCs with age.

I like the Monte Afrique with a Cameroon wrapper. JRs is a good source. Cammie wrappers are unique to NCs and are tasty! There are many NC Cammies. LFD lancero, Fuente Hemmie Nats, CAO Annys, to name a few.

Steve

Yep. I love it. I already have over 5 stick I would smoke on the regular but I keep buying new singles to try out. It is fun. Yea, I bought Grand Cru Punch on sale for $5.25 last night for toro size, and today i will pick up Punch Champion and Punch Magnum, I read a lot of people like them for the monye and JR has them cheap if I like them in 5vers. My local stores has a lot of ages Excaliburs in 1066 and regular, maduro or natural in the corner, where I guess a lot of people do not look. As far as Monte, I hated white label, have a Platinum Corona still in the humi to try and will try the Afrique and also wanted to try Romeo Habano Reserve as well. CAO annys are on the list too. I did not like Oliva G robusto or figurado, it had a weird smell and taste to it, loved the V, and bought Oliva O Corona last night in natural to try. LFD all of them are on the list as well after I loved LFD DL Oscuro, I want to try LFD Ligero L300 Oscuro and Maduro Chisel

Just remember, any connection between the Cubans and their NC counterparts is purely name only. After Castro nationalized the cigar industry the owners of these brands fled and took their brands with them. All have been bought out by Altadis and General, and through the complex copyright laws/disputes, are allowed for sale in the US only. Some, like Aroma de Cuba were just conjured out of thin air because nobody owned the American copyright. Bottom line- these cigars are completely different than their Cuban counterparts and it's a fallacy to associate any similarities.

After I had been smoking cigars for about a year I had a similar epiphany to yours, dlomonosov. I just didn't like the General/Altadis blends as a whole as much as I liked Padrons and Fuentes. I had enjoyed Punches and Hoyos, but for the most part, the traditional Cuban label offerings didn't offer as much flavor for my developing palette. Then a friend at my local B&M turned me onto El Rey del Mundo Oscuros and I was blown away- hardly any strength and mild to medium body, but the tobacco core flavors were outstanding! Once I did a little research I figured out that the only traditional labels I ever liked were in fact Villazon smokes.

I don't light up the Villazon offerings as much as I used to, but I still enjoy one from time to time. One great thing about keeping a box or two of Villazon smokes on hand is that they're great moocher cigars for friends who may want to enjoy an occasional smoke with me but aren't as hard core about it as I am.

Great info man. Yea Anejo kicked my ass, not ready for it. AF Natural 858 was nice and sweet and woody, smoked it 2 days ago, Hemmis are next to try. Like I stated above bought some Punch and Hoyo last night. How are the regular Hoyo natural, like Churchill i bought last night, or governors size? or just stay with Excalibur? I thought Excalibur 1066 dark night was smooth but lacked taste. Excalibur Maduro Epicure that got high CA marks was a bit harsh, I want to try natural next. El Ret del Mundo Serie R or G maduro was pretty good I remember, I tried it, I have to revise it. Will get some more Punch and Hoyos to try. Also bought a Padron Delicias Maddy and Palmas natural to try.. So I have some sticks now to taste..

 

[Gavin]

Personally I prefer the Connecticut wrapper on the Excalibur and the Cameroon on the 1066's over the Sumatra wrapper on the regular Hoyo's.

 

[Bonfire Smoke]

I don't know if you tried the Champion, but is is one of my favorite inexpensive sticks. I have gone through several boxes of them this past year. They have a good flavor and I have never had a burn problem out of them. To me they are a good go to stick. Good luck in your search. There are so many brands, styles, flavors to try. It is a never ending journey.

Johnny

 

[thechenman]

I don't think you necessarily have to give up on them, there may be something you like. However, I would say don't smoke them expecting the cigars to be anything like CCs, other than in name.

 

[dlomonosov]

I don't think you necessarily have to give up on them, there may be something you like. However, I would say don't smoke them expecting the cigars to be anything like CCs, other than in name.

isn't that the truth. I smoked ISOM RYJ Cedro#1, aged 3 years that I got as a gift on a watch forum, it was mild-medium but so tasty, I loved it. Nothing like the Dom RYJ I have smoked.. But still for me is all about tasting different sticks from all over. I have a long list to go. I have a Dom RYJ Cedro#2 to compare in my humi, will see, I can only imagine after smoking Reserva real and Anniversario, both of which were harsh and nasty.. I want to try Padron I just bought and pick up a few SG Fuentes, I bought Oliva O SG to try as well, after loving the V..

 

[thechenman]

I don't think you necessarily have to give up on them, there may be something you like. However, I would say don't smoke them expecting the cigars to be anything like CCs, other than in name.

isn't that the truth. I smoked ISOM RYJ Cedro#1, aged 3 years that I got as a gift on a watch forum, it was mild-medium but so tasty, I loved it. Nothing like the Dom RYJ I have smoked.. But still for me is all about tasting different sticks from all over. I have a long list to go. I have a Dom RYJ Cedro#2 to compare in my humi, will see, I can only imagine after smoking Reserva real and Anniversario, both of which were harsh and nasty.. I want to try Padron I just bought and pick up a few SG Fuentes, I bought Oliva O SG to try as well, after loving the V..

I agree with you. I love tasting different cigars be they CCs or NCs. What country a cigar comes from is not as important to me as how it tastes. There are great cigars made in and outside of the ISOM. Part of the fun of this hobby is not only finding the smokes that you enjoy and smoke regularly, but also to sample the variety that is out there. If you don't try, you don't know what you might miss. Sadly, it often takes a lot of poor or mediocre sticks before finding a true gem.

 

[Danforz]

The non Cuban Sancho Panza is made by Villazon, who makes Punch, Excalibur, & El Rey del Mundo.

There was a time when Villazon had a following like Tatuaje, etc. When the Embargo hit, Llaneza was on the very short list of manufacturers rolling smokes with any real strength or body. He is also a master at processing leaf.

Villazon also has pretty enviable sales figures, which means they are filling a need.
I do think they were a lot better years ago, and I really miss the old versions of Punch, Hoyo, and ERdM. That said, they
are still amongst the best bang for the buck blends going for folks who can't afford to smoke 5 to 20 dollar cigars, or for folks who smoke several cigars a day.

It is all up to you, how far you want to take this. Some of us like to keep trying blends each year to see if they happen to have a really good year. Some want to keep sampling everything to get a real good idea of what is available, how differant blenders approach their craft, or how blends develop from year to year.

There is something to be said about properly cured tobacco, which some will argue is not always the case with cuban cigars.

Well said. Punch, Hoyo and ELdM each have non-cuban variants which I enjoy. Specifically, Excalibur, Exaclibur 1066, Excalibur 1066 Dark Knight, Punch Rare Corojo, and ELdM Rectangulares.

 

[dlomonosov]

The non Cuban Sancho Panza is made by Villazon, who makes Punch, Excalibur, & El Rey del Mundo.

There was a time when Villazon had a following like Tatuaje, etc. When the Embargo hit, Llaneza was on the very short list of manufacturers rolling smokes with any real strength or body. He is also a master at processing leaf.

Villazon also has pretty enviable sales figures, which means they are filling a need.
I do think they were a lot better years ago, and I really miss the old versions of Punch, Hoyo, and ERdM. That said, they
are still amongst the best bang for the buck blends going for folks who can't afford to smoke 5 to 20 dollar cigars, or for folks who smoke several cigars a day.

It is all up to you, how far you want to take this. Some of us like to keep trying blends each year to see if they happen to have a really good year. Some want to keep sampling everything to get a real good idea of what is available, how differant blenders approach their craft, or how blends develop from year to year.

There is something to be said about properly cured tobacco, which some will argue is not always the case with cuban cigars.

Well said. Punch, Hoyo and ELdM each have non-cuban variants which I enjoy. Specifically, Excalibur, Exaclibur 1066, Excalibur 1066 Dark Knight, Punch Rare Corojo, and ELdM Rectangulares.

Thanks guys. We had a new ABC Liquors open and they have a himi there and always have sales on singles which I always take advantage of. I had a chance to get some last night to try: Torano Virtuoso Churchill $4.99, AF 858 Nat $4.99 (tried, love it, couldn't pass the opportunity), Punch Champion $4, HDM Excalibur 1 Maddy, La Gloria Cubana Churchill Nat $4.99, Sanch Panza Corona DM $3, AF Short Story $5.99.

 

[Danforz]

The non Cuban Sancho Panza is made by Villazon, who makes Punch, Excalibur, & El Rey del Mundo.

There was a time when Villazon had a following like Tatuaje, etc. When the Embargo hit, Llaneza was on the very short list of manufacturers rolling smokes with any real strength or body. He is also a master at processing leaf.

Villazon also has pretty enviable sales figures, which means they are filling a need.
I do think they were a lot better years ago, and I really miss the old versions of Punch, Hoyo, and ERdM. That said, they
are still amongst the best bang for the buck blends going for folks who can't afford to smoke 5 to 20 dollar cigars, or for folks who smoke several cigars a day.

It is all up to you, how far you want to take this. Some of us like to keep trying blends each year to see if they happen to have a really good year. Some want to keep sampling everything to get a real good idea of what is available, how differant blenders approach their craft, or how blends develop from year to year.

There is something to be said about properly cured tobacco, which some will argue is not always the case with cuban cigars.

Well said. Punch, Hoyo and ELdM each have non-cuban variants which I enjoy. Specifically, Excalibur, Exaclibur 1066, Excalibur 1066 Dark Knight, Punch Rare Corojo, and ELdM Rectangulares.

Thanks guys. We had a new ABC Liquors open and they have a himi there and always have sales on singles which I always take advantage of. I had a chance to get some last night to try: Torano Virtuoso Churchill $4.99, AF 858 Nat $4.99 (tried, love it, couldn't pass the opportunity), Punch Champion $4, HDM Excalibur 1 Maddy, La Gloria Cubana Churchill Nat $4.99, Sanch Panza Corona DM $3, AF Short Story $5.99.

Enjoy the HDM. Also, try to get your hands on the 1066 and 1066 Dark Knight (they aren't the same blend).

 

[dlomonosov]

Enjoy the HDM. Also, try to get your hands on the 1066 and 1066 Dark Knight (they aren't the same blend).

Thanks. I did try Dark Knight II, it was very smooth, but lacked taste, it was aged for a few years, I will have to revisit and I had the 1066 natural which I liked better then Excalibur Maduro. I bought Maduro Excalibur again to revisit and also have Excalibur Natural #3 to try as well. Today I bought Pepin sampler on CI with free shipping for $50 for 15 sticks, that is $3.3/stick.. 3 of each, Tat Havana Red, La Aroma de Cuba espacial, San Cristobal, DP CC Black and DP Blue.. Thats a sick deal.. I will be getting more of those pick 3 5vers for $50 next..

 

[Gonnagal]

I think your going to love that sampler you just bought. Tat Reds were what got me loving cigars. After reading your posts you sound a lot like me when I started smoking. Trying everyhing, even Acids. San Cristobals are great. Have you also tried a VSG or Cohiba black? I found those strong and enjoyable. Then again I do love the RASS. Happy hunting.


-Chris

ps. This thread was a great read, thanks madmonk among others.

 

[Danforz]

There is very little Pepin makes that I wouldn't at least recommend trying. Tats especially.