Smoking and Religion

[Lumberg]

While I do not wish to comment directly on the contents of this thread since I am a non-christian and therefore have no right displaying my opinion.

That's a defeatist attitude.

For one we are awaiting dsposition of this thread. It it were me I would not have posted this thread, and in absence of any other input I would have agreed with The Master. But having read the thread I'm taking a no harm, no foul attitude, but I doubt that the last word has been said. SOrt of like:

As for the appropriateness of this thread? I dont think there is anything wrong with asking the question, as it is (1)cigar related,(2) it was worded very clearly, and (3) anyone here that is not religiously inclined probably would not have a care either way imho.

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and

Thxs interesting read.
I guess if I didn't want to read this, I could have not clicked on it.

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However, based on the premise that preembargo was entitled to his say, Aaron, you have every right to express your religious views as well (as relating to this thread and cigars).

Frankly sometimes I cringe at the religious nature of some of the posts here, especially of the "Sending this prayer your way" variety. But it seems Christianity is the predominant religion on this board and it's accepted, so I roll with it. Definitely nothing to get your panties in a wad over.

This is a sticky area, because in the United States, where most of us are from and where this site is hosted (AFAIK), we have free speech.

Hoewever for all intents and puposes this is private property, and Rod can ban anyone he wants for whatever he wants. I'm no legal expert, so I wonder how much Federal Rule applies to this board.

Whew, long winded. Feel free to ignore.

 

[BigMacFU]

In Christ’s own words:

Matthew 15:16-20

16"…Don't you understand yet?" Jesus asked them. 17"Don't you see? Everything that enters the mouth goes into the stomach. Then it goes out of the body. 18But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart. Those are the things that make you 'unclean.' 19Evil thoughts come out of the heart. So do murder, adultery, and other sexual sins. And so do stealing, false witness, and telling lies about others. 20Those are the things that make you 'unclean."…

Christ is telling us that sin has nothing to do with what goes into our bodies, our Temples, but has everything to do with what is already in our hearts.

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This interpretation is actually a misinterpretation of the Christ's words. Your argument that cigars are less likely to be sinful than cigarettes is true. Unless of course you're addicted to the nicotine (the fewer addictions to this world, the less likely we are to make worldly mistakes) in cigars. And, you also have to make sure you're being a good steward of your money with this delicious hobby. BUT, the reason the interpretation above is wrong is because Paul himself says that, "You must not eat or drink condemnation upon yourself." (one of the Corinthian letters). He is here specifically referring to the eucharist, and how it is not to be taken unless one is spiritually ready at the time. And he means quite truthfully that you are committing sin by doing this eating and drinking. So, sin does have to do with what goes into our bodies, but in the qualified sense now that ritualistic purity laws are pointing to a deeper level of purity that the Christian must strive for. Furthermore, that obeying ritualistic purity, without the purifying attempts inwardly makes a futile effort for the extrinsic ritualistic purity. So, this is why Paul says you can eat or drink condemnation upon yourself. It's why any church that has a consistent communion (presbyterian, Anglican, Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, etc...) believes that the eucharist/communion is only for those confirmed into their church, and that those who do not believe, or those who are not "confirmed" into the "communion" of THE church, cannot take the eucharist without eating or drinking (a physical act) condemnation upon themselves.

I make this point so as to not leave open the possible interpretation that Christ said, as long as your intentions are always good, then you can never do anything wrong. This is wrong. Intentions must be good, and the outcome must be reasonably good. And by reasonably, I mean that we have taken in to account as many normative outcomes as possible, and believe that unless something radical happens, a good outcome will come of things too.

And now back to your regularly scheduled program.

 

[NorCalCigarLover]

Sorry preembargo ... I feel this type of post would have been better off on a Bible Study forum as well.

 

[Cheeze]

Thanks PreEmbargo for your post. It was a good read.

 

[SabresFan]

Ecellent read! I'm a little confused why the people in protest of this particular post are commenting on it rather than just ignoring it. I've seen many politically oriented threads, and or threads that have zero to do with cigars without the riot parade questioning the topic. There are many cigar smokers that have Christian beleifs and many that don't, having said that I will gladly smoke a cigar with any of them as long as they are good people.

 

[cvmfour]

Lumberg,
Freedom of speech does not apply to privately owned forums. It is up to the admin. to determine how much freedom we get. And I will say Rod is quite leinent (sp?) on this and that is a good thing :thumbs:

As to the thread, last time I checked it was in the "General discussion/The Lobby" part of the forum. Not in the "cigar discussion" part of the forum

 

[Peekay]

I thought we weren't supposed to talk about this type of stuff.

Well I didn't read through the post so maybe STFU applies.

 

[The Master]

We got rid of religous and political discussions at CF years ago. We found that the board got totally polarized with one side being on the right wing and one on the left. The religous discussions turned into a real pissing match when people of one religion or the other would go at each other saying how this interpertation of the bible was right and this one was wrong.

I am in no way trying to tell the people who run this site what they should do, I am only recounting what we went through and how we dealt with it.

 

[cletus]

Well since it fits,
I don't think we should take about baseball, I find it offensive.
I believe it's just gonna cause problems.
Did the baseball threads say hey I smoked a PAM while I watched the game.
No, unlike this thread that was cigar related.
We should limit this forum(lobby) to just cigars, because in no way I would like to get to know any of you in a personal way, except for cigars.
But now I think about it, I find some of your opinions on cigars offensive.
I just don't see any reason for anyone to post anything, because it might make just one single person upset. Your responses are not welcome on this post, because of fear it might cause people to state their opinions and views, and you know we can't have that.

 

[Cheekie]

politics, sexuality and preferences, race, and religion....
didn't know that these topics were up for grabs, especially when some can ensue riots. I understand that it is not the intention of the thread, but, does religion and faith have it's place in an open forum? Would it not be wisest to adopt the bar rules here? Just a thought. Not beginging a war just an observation.

 

[cletus]

It it were me I would not have posted this thread, and in absence of any other input I would have agreed with The Master. 

I'm aware that you stay away from posting controversial topics.

If it were me I wouldn't have posted this thread.

http://www.cigarpass.com/forums/index.php?...law+enforcement
:sign:

 

[camaroon4me]

Now that I have had most of the day to consider the original question.....

I firmly believe it IS a sin to smoke cigars.........that have plastic tips.....or to smoke them on an airplane or an elevator..........or smoke ones that are fruity flavored.........or have the name "blunts" in them..........or....well you get the picture. :laugh:

I think that it's a shame that a simple thought provoking question could cause such a stink around here, and maybe there should be a special commission set up to investigate the ramifications for posting such a preposterous thread! :whistling:

You know, a wise man once told me that if you try to please everyone, no one will be happy. I see posts on here every day that annoy me (usually from the same poster), but overall, most of the posts are positive, informative and friendly.When I see threads by people that I don't care to know, I simply do not read them, it's a pretty simple concept.

Those that didn't like this thread could easily just not read it anymore. It's not like anyone is holding a gun to anyones head here.

Nuff said,
JV

 

[JimK]

Heck, we never even got to arguing over religion, we're still arguing over posting about religion!

 

[cletus]

Now that I have had most of the day to consider the original question.....

I firmly believe it IS a sin to smoke cigars.........that have plastic tips.....or to smoke them on an airplane or an elevator..........or smoke ones that are fruity flavored.........or have the name "blunts" in them..........or....well you get the picture. :laugh:

I think that it's a shame that a simple thought provoking question could cause such a stink around here, and maybe there should be a special commission set up to investigate the ramifications for posting such a preposterous thread! :whistling:

You know, a wise man once told me that if you try to please everyone, no one will be happy. I see posts on here every day that annoy me (usually from the same poster), but overall, most of the posts are positive, informative and friendly.When I see threads by people that I don't care to know, I simply do not read them, it's a pretty simple concept.

Those that didn't like this thread could easily just not read it anymore. It's not like anyone is holding a gun to anyones head here.

Nuff said,
JV

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Amen!

 

[preembargo]

I appreciate the many well thought out responses. As I said in the original post, I have no desire to spark or become involved in a debate and I’m happy that the conclusions stated in my post were not by themselves the cause of controversy. I must say that I didn’t expect the posting itself would be considered objectionable. The intent was to offer an answer to those who share both my faith and my love of cigars when they are confronted with this question, either in their own hearts or by their peers.

I hope that each of you will understand that though I may disagree with some, I respect the opinions presented on both sides of the issue. It’s fortunate that men and women of goodwill can both agree and disagree in the spirit of goodwill.

 

[Rod]

Thread locked. Read the rules. Time and time again, someone makes a political or religious thread and arguments emerge.

Cletus - your baseball example doesn't hold up here. I've heard it before..."well let's not talk baseball or anything else yada yada yada..." You haven't been around long enough to understand why we discourage such topics.

Our rules are very simple, please follow them. If you'd rather go to another forum where the mods chase you around for every little thing you do (or worse, delete topics without warning), then go for it. If you think we're too "tough" here, then move on. I'm tired of whinny posts where people believe that they're entitled to "freedom of speech" and should be able to blast their opinion even on privately owned websites.

Think before you post...