Jump to content

CigarPass Cigar Forum & Community

Welcome to Cigar Pass, the internet's friendliest and most knowledgeable cigar forum. We have over a decade of useful cigar information, reviews and thousands of active members around the world. Join today and start making new cigar friends. We hope you enjoy our forum, and decide to make CP your home.

Sign In or Register to gain full access to our forum. By registering with us, you'll be able to discuss, share and private message with other members of our community. You'll also be able to instant message, join live video virtual herfs, and have your own photo gallery -- all free.


Photo

Red Stag by Jim Beam


  • Please log in to reply
18 replies to this topic

#1 AVB

AVB

    Jesus of cool, I'm bad, I'm nationwide

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 20,433 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Near York, PA.

Joined: 14-November 03

Posted 21 June 2009 - 07:52 PM

Red Stag by Jim Beam, 750ml, 80 proof, standard Beam bottle, no additional packaging, about $18-20. Nationwide release 06/01/09 but not avalable in all markets yet.

The story behind this product according to Chuck Cowdery the bourbon writer, is that Win Wilkins was a long-time R&D guy at Beam in Kentucky and a deer hunter. He used to make up a drink of Jim Beam infused with black cherry to put in his flask when he went deer hunting and he called it Red Stag. He retired about 2 1/2 years ago, but the idea was on the shelf in R&D and last fall somebody picked it up, scaled it up, and Red Stag was born as a product.

Posted Image

As the label says: " Kentucky Straight Bourbon Whiskey infused with natural flavors" with the current flavor of Black Cherry in a black highlight box. Jim Beam advertises this with "From the woods of Kentucky emerges the newest member of the Beam family. Created with four year old Jim BeamŽ Bourbon, Red Stag by Jim Beam™ has been slowly infused with natural black cherry flavors for a smooth, unique taste." They also say that the taste is: "Corn sweetness and mellow oak accented by a hint of black cherry for smoothness and balance, Red Stag, A different Breed of Bourbon."

Starting off, the nose is cherry. Period. Not quite as cloying as cherry Nyquil but no mistaking it is cherry. Straight up it is thicker then any bourbon I've ever seen, there are no legs on the glass but a film viscosity that slides down as you tip the glass. I find it hard to believe that the 2.5% added sugar threshold that would allow this to be called a cordial wasn't crossed. However, I've heard that 82 proof regular White Label Jim Beam is infused with just enough Black Cherry to bring the proof down to 80.

I have no idea who did the tasting for Jim Beam but there is no mellow oak or hint of black cherry. It is cherry overpowering everything. There is no bourbon that can be noticed so it might as well been blended whiskey as a base.

Now I'm a purest, if it isn't good right out of the bottle, it isn't good. You shouldn't have to mix, cut, add or do anything else beside pour it in a glass. This isn't good. Can it be made good? Well, I tried mixing 3oz of standard Jim Beam with one oz if Red Stag. At least you now can tell there is bourbon involved but the cherry aftertaste just hangs in the mouth until you rinse out your mouth or drink something else. No go on the mixing.

I also tried the ratio above in a Manhattan. While an improvement over the mix above it still had that odd aftertaste. I've read that Beam is marketing this to people who are already drinking Beam & Cherry Coke plus as a way to get more non-bourbon drinkers involved with bourbon. Since you can't tell that there is any bourbon in Red Stag to start with I don't know how that is going to work out for them.

My biggest complaint is not that they made a product like this but that they are calling it Bourbon. How the TTB (Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau) didn't mandate this as a flavored whiskey is beyond me. In a nut shell bourbon is defined as - Whisky(1) produced in the U.S. at not exceeding 80% alcohol by volume (160 proof) from a fermented mash of not less than 51 percent corn and stored at not more than 62.5% alcohol by volume (125 proof) in charred new oak containers for a minimum of two years. Bourbon aged for a period less than four years must be labeled with the duration of its aging. If an age is stated on the label, it must be the age of the youngest whiskey in the bottle.

(1)Whisky being: Spirits distilled from a fermented mash of grain at less than 95% alcohol by volume (190 proof) having the taste, aroma and characteristics generally attributed to whisky and bottled at not less than 40% alcohol by volume (80 proof)

Flavored Whiskey is defined thusly:
Whiskey flavored with natural flavoring materials, with or without the addition of sugar, bottled at not less than 30% alcohol by volume (60 proof)
The name of the predominant flavor shall appear as part of the class and type designation. (Cherry Flavored Whiskey for example)
Wine may be added but if the addition exceeds 2.5% by volume of the finished product, the classes and/or types and percentages (by volume) of wine must be stated as part of the class and type designation.

Also, to be specific, Title 27, Part 5, subpart ca3 says: “Harmless coloring, flavoring, and blending materials” shall not include (i) any material which would render the product to which it is added an imitation, or (ii) any material, other than caramel, infusion of oak chips, and sugar, in the case of Cognac brandy; or (iii) any material whatsoever in the case of neutral spirits or straight whiskey, except that vodka may be treated with sugar in an amount not to exceed 2 grams per liter and a trace amount of citric acid." The bolding is mine.

The way I read it the above means you can't call it Bourbon, new breed or otherwise. The "any material whatsoever" part of the the regs would seem to preclude it being called Bourbon.

However, the TTB has thought otherwise so now I can only hope for it's abject failure or that Beam realizes how they have sullied the name of Bourbon and change the labeling.

I wish I could claim to be the first to call this Red Gag but I'm not - but I will be the first to tell you to avoid it at all costs.

Edited by AVB, 22 June 2009 - 06:27 AM.


#2 MoeCizlak

MoeCizlak

    Built for comfort

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,603 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Iowa

Joined: 21-September 07

Posted 21 June 2009 - 08:33 PM

Wow, I shivered just a bit reading this. Are things really that bad for Beam that this seemed a good idea to someone? Ray, thanks for taking one for the team. I'll send you some sort of flavored cigar for your follow-up review if you'd like. :sign:

#3 MichaelPCo

MichaelPCo

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 119 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Union County, New Jersey

Joined: 11-February 05

Posted 22 June 2009 - 07:06 AM

Well written Ray
Thanks for bringing this to my attention


Michael

#4 Devil Doc

Devil Doc

    from hell's heart I stab at thee

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,801 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New England

Joined: 16-October 05

Posted 22 June 2009 - 07:35 AM

This is going to very popular with the woodchucks in these parts, where the drink of choice is blackberry brandy for deer camp and hanging out at the sugar house.

Doc.

#5 gtadroptop

gtadroptop

    You can't make this stuff up

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,888 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Erie, Pa

Joined: 13-December 07

Posted 22 June 2009 - 08:15 AM

Um...yuk.

Beam is my daily bourbon. Think I'll pass on this one, though.

#6 DePasta

DePasta

    Stop it! That tickles!

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,498 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Louisville

Joined: 23-July 05

Posted 22 June 2009 - 10:18 AM

Oh, there will be more of them (unfortunately). Many distillers are looking to crack new niches, specifically the younger and female crowds. The women I have seen try it, like it, this and that honey flavored crap....

#7 AVB

AVB

    Jesus of cool, I'm bad, I'm nationwide

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 20,433 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Near York, PA.

Joined: 14-November 03

Posted 22 June 2009 - 12:03 PM

Not being limp-wristed, a frat boy or a woman I don't care if they make this stuff but I do care that they are trying to pass it off as bourbon. It isn't a New Breed of Bourbon because IT ISN"T BOURBON! At least Wild Turkey's American Honey admits it is a liqueur..

Oh, there will be more of them (unfortunately). Many distillers are looking to crack new niches, specifically the younger and female crowds. The women I have seen try it, like it, this and that honey flavored crap....



#8 ironpeddler

ironpeddler

    Ye Old Newbie

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,883 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Land of Snatch & Honey

Joined: 08-April 08

Posted 22 June 2009 - 04:41 PM

Not being limp-wristed, a frat boy or a woman I don't care if they make this stuff but I do care that they are trying to pass it off as bourbon. It isn't a New Breed of Bourbon because IT ISN"T BOURBON! At least Wild Turkey's American Honey admits it is a liqueur..

Oh, there will be more of them (unfortunately). Many distillers are looking to crack new niches, specifically the younger and female crowds. The women I have seen try it, like it, this and that honey flavored crap....

When I read your opening description of the blend, it sounded intriguing...Win Wilkins...four year old Jim Beam Bourbon...slowly infused....Corn sweetness and mellow oak accented by a hint of black cherry. I guess with that description, a bourbon drinker would buy a bottle and a trick liqueur drinker would buy a bottle due to the flavoring.

Now that you said it was 'Near Nyquil' Beam...it turns out it a straight up marketing ploy that threw bourbon drinkers under the bus for the sake of a one time purchase. I see your point, it's deceiving to a bourbon fan when in fact it's a cheap whiskey with some sugar-free cherry extract added in.

I wonder how close this is to Win Wilkins's original version? :whistling:

#9 AVB

AVB

    Jesus of cool, I'm bad, I'm nationwide

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 20,433 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Near York, PA.

Joined: 14-November 03

Posted 22 June 2009 - 09:55 PM

It's too sweet to have been sugar free.

.....when in fact it's a cheap whiskey with some sugar-free cherry extract added in.



#10 ironpeddler

ironpeddler

    Ye Old Newbie

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,883 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Land of Snatch & Honey

Joined: 08-April 08

Posted 23 June 2009 - 07:56 AM

It's too sweet to have been sugar free.

.....when in fact it's a cheap whiskey with some sugar-free cherry extract added in.

I figured that's the only way they kept this under the 2.5% threshold....saccharin..... :laugh:

#11 umi999

umi999

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 56 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New Jersey

Joined: 15-March 09

Posted 25 June 2009 - 09:29 AM

This stuff is absolutely atrocious, I am with AVB on this one. It floors me that they have the balls to even call it bourbon. I will tell you guys this though, they are doing something right because for weeks before the release I would get asked if we had it at least three times a day and since its release it has flown off the shelf pretty quickly.

#12 AVB

AVB

    Jesus of cool, I'm bad, I'm nationwide

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 20,433 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Near York, PA.

Joined: 14-November 03

Posted 18 October 2009 - 10:36 AM

I can't say how this is doing nation-wide but at my local store they haven't sold a bottle in over a month now and my friend who works in NY says he hasn't sold one in at least 3 weeks so it maybe dying a slow painful death it deserves.

Edited by AVB, 18 October 2009 - 05:34 PM.


#13 Shamrocker

Shamrocker

    Sheik Yerbouti

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,591 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Winnipeg, MB

Joined: 21-April 09

Posted 18 October 2009 - 11:21 PM

It sounded interesting at first... then upon further reading my decision has been finalized. That bottle will never grace the shelves in my liquor cabinet. Thanks for the heads-up on this abomination.

#14 khari

khari

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,421 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Alpharetta, GA

Joined: 12-September 07

Posted 19 October 2009 - 08:45 PM

I tried this stuff at a bar a week ago. They're pushing this stuff pretty hard. The bar had a dispenser for it much like the ones for Jagermeister. As a bourbon it's pretty horrible. As a shooter, I can see folks ordering it.

#15 g-smoke

g-smoke

    Silent but deadly

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 494 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Brooklyn, NY

Joined: 25-January 08

Posted 19 October 2009 - 09:22 PM

Funny, I just saw this stuff tonight for the first time at my neighborhood plexiglass-encased liquor store. I glanced at the label and passed on it when I saw the bright red antler rack on it. Couldn't read the label from where I was standing, but it looked like bad news.

#16 punk_lawyer

punk_lawyer

    Habeas Punkus

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,728 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Milford, OH

Joined: 06-May 08

Posted 20 October 2009 - 12:30 PM

I tried this stuff at a bar a week ago. They're pushing this stuff pretty hard. The bar had a dispenser for it much like the ones for Jagermeister. As a bourbon it's pretty horrible. As a shooter, I can see folks ordering it.


I agree with khari that it is being marketed hard at bars as a shooter. In fact, I did a shot of this pathetic excuse for liquor to celebrate a friend of mine finalizing his divorce. I trust that his memory of that shot will be as terrible as the memory of his divorce. We did only one shot of Red Stag and moved on to the far more tasty straight absinthe. Even though we hated the Red Stag, quite a few bottles were being emptied as shots at a pretty good pace.

The Jim Beam folks have had their hands in lots of flavored products recently (Starbucks Coffee Liqueur being an obvious example. Linky). In fact, given the success of some of those non-bourbon flavored products, I can see them wanting to put their primary brand name with some flavors. How many flavors of Stoli, Smirnoff, Bacardi or Cruzan are there now? They are still marketed as vodka or rum but with flavors clearly emblazoned on the label. And with things like Sweet Tea vodka pulling in more and more consumers, from a marketing perspective the move makes sense. If consumers like flavored products then why not be the first bourbon on the block to add flavor and market? White Zinfandel is widely regarded as wine with training wheels but how many thousands of gallons are sold to novice drinkers every year?

I think their labeling follows almost exactly along the lines of the flavored vodkas and rums. I doubt very seriously if the feds are going to lift a finger about the labeling because if one liquor can be flavored then arguably all of them can and certainly the label does not hide the fact that there is flavoring added. I will not be shocked if Heaven Hill, notorious mass producer of some really bad rot gut bourbons, has a dozen varieties of flavored bourbons on the shelves by the end of next year. Grab bags of taco, picante, super hot, four cheese and original Doritos and pair your favorite flavored bourbon with them.

This stuff is terrible. No bourbon lover should consider buying or drinking this product. That being said, I fear this may be the tip of the iceberg on bourbons with flavors added. ???

#17 Shamrocker

Shamrocker

    Sheik Yerbouti

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,591 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Winnipeg, MB

Joined: 21-April 09

Posted 21 October 2009 - 10:34 PM

This stuff is terrible. No bourbon lover should consider buying or drinking this product. That being said, I fear this may be the tip of the iceberg on bourbons with flavors added. ???


And hopefully, as with icebergs, maybe only 10% of them will ever break the surface and see the light of day.

#18 sigar_zealot

sigar_zealot

    FattyMcButterPants

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,139 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Near Tucson

Joined: 17-January 07

Posted 21 October 2009 - 11:33 PM

Nice review AVB. I don't see myself trying this, ever.

#19 MoeCizlak

MoeCizlak

    Built for comfort

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,603 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Iowa

Joined: 21-September 07

Posted 22 October 2009 - 05:11 PM

I should preface what I'm about to post by saying I have not tried this and don't plan to, so my condemnation of it is based on trusted reviews I've read.

I saw a commercial today for this stuff featuring Kid Rock and his "All Summer Long" song. I thought to myself, "How fitting. Both the song and the drink are modern takes on classic pieces and both fall well short of the mark." I guess the commercial is fitting, although I don't think for the purpose the advertisers had in mind.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users