I'm going to be controversial here and ask

Why is it considered a tragedy of extra proportions when a Law Enforcement Officer, or especially a member of our armed forces, gets hurt or dies?

It is their job, after all, to put themselves in danger to protect the rest of us. For that reason, I give the brave people who protect my way of life, whether it be from my fellow citizens (cops) or from foreign aggressors (soldiers, etc), the utmost respect and gratitude.

However, if they get hurt or die, well they were just doing their job. Sure the person responsible is reprehensible, and should be prosecuted and persecuted. But, presumably, since this is a free country, the victim was an adult of sound mind and body, who made a decision to take on the role of protector (again, a decision to be lauded). They presumably knew what they were getting into (if not they are still a hero, but just stupid).

9/11, that's a tragedy. A mom killed by her ex-husband, that's a tragedy.

A police office killed in a shootout with a kidnapper? Eh, unpleasant, but not anywhere near the level of the above two. A soldier killed when his helicopter is shot down by the enemy? Uh, that's what happens in a war. It's not senseless. The victims are not "innocent." So why the major outpouring of attention when a person whose job it is to endanger themselves so that the rest of us are safe, dies? And why when presumably there are also several other violent deaths of people by equally horrific means who are NOT intentionally placing their lives on the line?

This has puzzled me for some time now.

To all current and past members of the armed forces: the statements above are precisely why I am respectful and grateful. I recognize you for your choice of job; not the fact that you do it. I do my job. I expect you to do yours.

Has anyone in your immediate family died in the line of duty as an LEO or a soldier?

Death is always tragic, I don't think there are any "extra proportions" involved. Nothing trumps death when it is close to you, and everyone who has died has been close to someone. The tragedy is for the person who died, but also for those who are left behind.

JK

I can't speak for the LEO but on the service end this is a fairly recent development. Blame our technology for the "clean" conflicts we've had which didn't cost very many lives. You can take Panama, Genada, Somalia and GW1 in total and it doesn't add up to a bad week in Vietnam. With less people dying more attention is paid to those that do perish and more emotions are focused on fewer people. Just my 2¢

Lumberg said:

To all current and past members of the armed forces:  the statements above are precisely why I am respectful and grateful.  I recognize you for your choice of job; not the fact that you do it.  I do my job.  I expect you to do yours.

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Maybe you should recognize the fact that some people have the Balls to get up
from their computers and fight for their country, from the homeland to overseas,
Which includes Law Enforcement protecting your community.

People don't always choose their jobs on the amount of money they make.

By the Way, Whats your Job?

Lum - how do I answer this question from the law enforcement persepective, seeing as how this is a subject near and dear me.

Recently, during our contract negotiations, one of the issues was "On-Duty Death Benefits for Police Officers". The argument seemed to me to be a no-brainer. If a cop is killed, in the line of duty, while protecting the community he works for, why WOULDN'T they pay for his funeral and other related expenses? The village administration countered, "well, if you did that for the cops - why not also for the public works employees?". I have to say - I agree. If a public works employee is struck and killed while working for the village, hasn't he also given his life for the village? The same as a police officer? Pay to take care of him and his family - after all, they sacrificed everything they had for you...

There is a difference between a soldier or police officer dying, and a public works employee. Police officers and military personnel are the thin line between your freedom, and total anarchy. That line is not just a barrier, it is a "human shield". You had better hope that a LEO or soldier doesn't decide that when the $hit hits the fan, it's better for them to go the other way. I've consciously made the decision that when the $hit hits the fan, I'm staying and fighting - no matter what the consequences are to me or my family. I hope I don't have to play that card - but that is what I signed up for...

So, ok - an officer or a soldier is killed in the line of duty... So what - big deal, right? If an officer or soldier is killed in the line of duty it is because someone chose to challenge that line of defense between you and them. Clearly, an armed officer or soldier - with intent to prevent harm to you - being attacked by someone who could care less that the person is there to thwart it. I suppose it's hard to understand from the perspective of someone who does not think with the rationale of someone who is intent upon praying on society. But I have met some individuals you'd not want to invite to your next herf... They belong locked up...

I think the most touching thing that has happened to me in my career was when my daughter (who was probably 9 or 10 at the time) wrote a note and put it in my uniform pocket. I found it while I was on patrol. I had been assigned to the 3-11 shift with rotating days off, and only saw my kids maybe one day a week (between them being in school while I was home or being in bed when I got home, I might see them early Sat or Sun morning). The note told me how much my daughter missed me, and worried that she may never see me again because some bad guy may kill me.

I have spent the better part of 25 or so years in law enforcement. I've made some sacrifices (police work is not a 9-5, M-F job). I worked weekends, I worked holidays, I worked long hours of overtime when it was needed. I was called in again last night, after arriving home only an hour earlier. I just finished my 24th hour without sleep, grabbed a couple of hours and I'm back at work. Any cop I know will tell you pretty much the same thing. And I think I'm lucky - soldiers don't even have that luxury when they're in combat...

But the greatest sacrifice I think that has happened through all of this is my family's sacrifice. My wife could have insisted that I get a more reasonable job - and I've deprived her of her not having a normal life because of my choice about what I do for a living. Certainly, my children had no choice in the matter. My parents and brothers and sisters were not really happy when they had Christmas, or Thanksgiving or 4th of July celebrations planned and I couldn't attend.

I am sympathetic and deeply saddened by the loss of a fellow officer, or the death of a soldier. More so that the other death that I see and deal with on a regular basis (like the 45 yr old woman - mother of 7 children and wife - who was killed in the crash I investigated last night). Not because their death wasn't tragic, but because of the absolute sacrifice that was behind the death of the officer of soldier. It humbles me in knowing someone unselfishly put their life on the line for me....

When somebody is killed or hurt by an @$$hole it is a bad thing. It doesn't matter if they are a policeman, soldier, or sundayschool teacher.

Blame the media for trying to give us heroes. Not all a bad thing.

OK Jonathan..............

First of all, let me point out that this is one of the more stupid things I have seen you post.

You probably have never put your life on the line for anything or anybody. Your family never has to worry that when they say goodbye to you in the morning afternoon or at night that it might be the last time they see you.

Don't worry Jonnie Boy, us brave men and women in LE and the military will take care of you and your family since you chose not too. Sleep well at night knowing that the military and LE are protecting your life and your proterty.

BkCloud114 said:

OK Jonathan..............

First of all, let me point out that this is one of the more stupid things I have seen you post.

You probably have never put your life on the line for anything or anybody. Your family never has to worry that when they say goodbye to you in the morning afternoon or at night that it might be the last time they see you.

Don't worry Jonnie Boy, us brave men and women in LE and the military will take care of you and your family since you chose not too. Sleep well at night knowing that the military and LE are protecting your life and your proterty.

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Damn it Tommy - I wrote all that fluffy crap and I could have summed it up better like you did!!! I gotta take lessons from Neal!!!

Lumpy, are you really as stupid as you sound?

You must go through life with your head up your ass or something as you apparently don't even begin to grasp the concept of doing a job where there is a possibility of getting killed while doing it.

The village called by the way......

I would have to say I do not understand where John is going with this.

I guess I will wait until he posts again.

I agree with you Tommy.

lame

AEIOU & sometimes Y

Just a matter of vowels…




Yes Lumberg, this is about the dumbest thing I have seen in a long time. Maybe since Shuji! Oops! I forgot that I promised myself I would not participate in another thread that included you after the Shuji debacle.

Brent

Lumberg,

Unlike BK, I don't consider your post to be stupid. You obviously knew that you'd be putting yourself out there, but I think you have a genuine curiosity and are just looking for an answer. I think that's fair. I'm also sure there are a lot of other folks who ask themselves the same question: "What makes these guys so special that WE have to be upset when they die simply doing their job?" I don't want to put words in your mouth, but that's how I read your post.

I'll tell you why I think the death of an officer or a soldier is different from a woman who is killed by an ex-husband. Two simple but very important words:

Duty and Sacrifice

When I joined the Army during high school (I joined via the Delayed Entry Program), I did so because I felt it was my DUTY to help protect the US and its citizens. At the time I joined, a group of Americans were being held hostage by a group of extremists in our embasssy in Iran. The US had just tried to pull off a rescue mission that ended in the deaths of several servicemen. I remember seeing the pictures of their charred bodies laying in the desert and being pissed off that they had died trying to rescue their fellow countrymen. I also remember wishing that I could do something, and feeling helpless that I was in no position to do so. That's when I made the decision to join. I wanted to be able to ACT against those who would do us harm, even if it meant I might be another charred body who made the ultimate SACRIFICE.

A woman who is killed by an ex is completely different. Tragic? Of course. But it's not the same. Both duty and sacrifice are missing.

Everyone dies. But not everyone is willing to SACRIFICE their life because they have a sense of DUTY to their fellow citzens and their country.

I just wish I was better at expressing how I feel about this.

You did just fine, Steve.
It is the willingness with full knowledge of the danger and the character to act for the greater good that sets these sacrifices apart.
You need not diminish the loss of a victim to extol the virtue of a life lived with such selflessness and valor.

Lum. Split another cigar roll up some weed and smoke!!!!! DAMN HIPPIE!!!!!!! :angry:

stevehawk said:

Duty and Sacrifice

When I joined the Army during high school (I joined via the Delayed Entry Program), I did so because I felt it was my DUTY to help protect the US and its citizens. At the time I joined, a group of Americans were being held hostage by a group of extremists in our embasssy in Iran. The US had just tried to pull off a rescue mission that ended in the deaths of several servicemen. I remember seeing the pictures of their charred bodies laying in the desert and being pissed off that they had died trying to rescue their fellow countrymen. I also remember wishing that I could do something, and feeling helpless that I was in no position to do so. That's when I made the decision to join. I wanted to be able to ACT against those who would do us harm, even if it meant I might be another charred body who made the ultimate SACRIFICE.

A woman who is killed by an ex is completely different. Tragic? Of course. But it's not the same. Both duty and sacrifice are missing.

Everyone dies. But not everyone is willing to SACRIFICE their life because they have a sense of DUTY to their fellow citzens and their country.

I just wish I was better at expressing how I feel about this.

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Well said

As much as I did not agree with Lumberg said I would still lay down my life to protect him and his family. Law Enforcment and Military people are the thin line between good and bad.

I suggest he ride along with his local Law Enforcement...Not in the back seat, but in a manner to observe first hand just exactly what we are up against.

I hope one day he sees the light.

Sorry lumpy I am waaaay over my quota for stupid today but if a get a couple minutes tomorrow I'll explain to you why you are a stupid fuggin' jackass. Take my word for it till then.

NA

SamClemmons said:

Sorry lumpy I am waaaay over my quota for stupid today but if a get a couple minutes tomorrow I'll explain to you why you are a stupid fuggin' jackass. Take my word for it till then.

NA

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As a Marine, outside of what Tommy and Leebo already laid-down, you definitely summed up my feelings this time of night pretty damn well SC. Point blank and period.

Nite Chesty.

stevehawk said:

Everyone dies. But not everyone is willing to SACRIFICE their life because they have a sense of DUTY to their fellow citzens and their country.

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Well said Steve..............

OK I will play. Explain this one to me Lumpy. A LEO that does his best to keep the world safe on his watch and make it home to his family is gunned down by some crack head that just robbed a 7-11 for $35 so he can buy a mixture of cocaine and baking soda that will get him high for about 30 minutes. We see an article in the paper and a story on the news for a day or two. He gave his life for that $40,000 a year he signed up for and we forget him in a couple of days. What the hell, he signed up for the job and knew the dangers, right!

Now we see Dale Earnhart crash his 200 mph car into a wall and die. The whole country shuts down and we see memorials in his honor at every race for the rest of the year. We even get a movie about his life.

Was someone holding a gun to his head to get into that car and race? It is the attitude of people like you that have become desensitized to the random deaths of LEO and military personnel. One man died doing a job and trying to provide for his family, the other died participating in a dangerous sport.

I think about the few friends that I have lost at my job all the time. Your comments cheapen their deaths and are insulting. You should be ashamed of yourself.



Dave