Should I just give up trying out non-Cuban version of..

All the non-Cuban famous version like Montecristo,Hoyo, Punch, RyJ, Bolivar i have tried so far were bad, bitter or harsh or had no taste, or taste of tobaco in them. Should i give up trying other vitolas and other lines by these makers? It feels like America is the biggest consumer of cigars in the worl, but we can not leagaly buy them here, so these makers opened up spin offs of these famous makers outside of Cuba to maximize profits and get Americans to buy them, since Cuban ones what they are known for are not available to us here, leagaly and sometimes could be a pain, hassle and pricy to get them in here. I do not see on this forum and others, people doing reviews and smoke non-cuban versions of these great cigar makers, instead people are buying and reviewing brands that origionally did not come out of Cuba and are more or less new boutique brands like Tatauje, Oliva, LFD, LG, Padila, Torano, Pepin and Padron anf Fuente.

So should I give up trying these non-cuban spin offs?

So far all of them I tried were not to my liking compared to the new boutique makers that I loved. I have not smoked Cohiba and Monte #2 in a very long time to even compare them to anything. but I want to buy a few sticks to try if someone wants to PM to sell.

I tried non-Cuban: Monte White tube, RyJ Anniversario robusto, RyJ Reserva Real, Hoyo Excalibur nat & mad, and 1066 nat & mad, Punch Rothschild and Rare Corojo Rothschild, all of them were either harsh, bitter, tobaco taste and that it, or were just blah..

Now LFD Double Ligero, Oliva V, Casa Magna Colorado, Torano Silver Exodus, Rocky Patel 1990 vintage Robusto, even Sancho Panza Mady were all strong or not too strong, but tasty, toasty, aromic and just mmmmmm to smoke, I did not get that feeling after smoking those non-cuban spin offs.

dlomonosov said:

So should I give up trying these non-cuban spin offs?

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Yes.

mu mike said:

dlomonosov said:

So should I give up trying these non-cuban spin offs?

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Yes.

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You forgot the exclamation point and :sign: :sign: :sign: to reinforce your point Mike.

dlomonosov said:

Now LFD Double Ligero, Oliva V, Casa Magna Colorado, Torano Silver Exodus, Rocky Patel 1990 vintage Robusto, even Sancho Panza Mady were all strong or not too strong, but tasty, toasty, aromic and just mmmmmm to smoke, I did not get that feeling after smoking those non-cuban spin offs.

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I believe the Sancho Panza is a Cuban spinoff...so no.

Hahaha. You guys are great.. Yes! With a big "!" ha?! Nice..

I want to find 1-3 sticks in each price range to smoke on regular in my humi. $3 cigars(I want to try a few Padrons: 2000, Delicias and Londres. And maybe age a few for over 6 month like many said), $5-7 cigars, $7-12 cigars and then all above.

I want to try these in $3-$4.50 range: Oliva O nat & mady. Saint Luis Ray Belicos non-cuban, Pedormo Lot 23 and 10 year anny champaigne, Tobaco Baez SF green label, Ambos Mundos, and those padrons.

Than in $5-7 range: AF Cuban Belicoso SG and Chatau/Double Chatau Fuente SG, AF 858 Nat, Torano Exodus Torpedo Gold and Vertuoso

Than in $7-12 range: LFD Ligero, La Aroma de Cuba Espacial and reg, AF Hemi Classic, Tatauje, My father, Don Pepin lines, all Ashtons,

$12+ range: OpusX bigger sizes, Pefection No.4 kicked my ass, Padron 1926 and 1964 nat and mady

Am I missing any based on what I liked so far?

The non Cuban Sancho Panza is made by Villazon, who makes Punch, Excalibur, & El Rey del Mundo.

There was a time when Villazon had a following like Tatuaje, etc. When the Embargo hit, Llaneza was on the very short list of manufacturers rolling smokes with any real strength or body. He is also a master at processing leaf.

Villazon also has pretty enviable sales figures, which means they are filling a need.
I do think they were a lot better years ago, and I really miss the old versions of Punch, Hoyo, and ERdM. That said, they
are still amongst the best bang for the buck blends going for folks who can't afford to smoke 5 to 20 dollar cigars, or for folks who smoke several cigars a day.

It is all up to you, how far you want to take this. Some of us like to keep trying blends each year to see if they happen to have a really good year. Some want to keep sampling everything to get a real good idea of what is available, how differant blenders approach their craft, or how blends develop from year to year.

There is something to be said about properly cured tobacco, which some will argue is not always the case with cuban cigars.

Madmonk,
Thank you for the info. I love to try different ones and compare and see which ones I would buy next time over others for the price. I still want to try Punch Gran Puro and Gran Cru and Punch regular Champion and Punch Punch out of non-cuban Punch. Hoyo 1066 excalibur was smooth but had no flavor like lets say Torano Silver for almost same price. The regular excalibur Maduro was harsh and it got over 90 rating in CA mag a few years back. I maybe need to try another. I still have RyJ Cedro #2 and Monte Platinum vintage 1990 in my humidor to try next. I also want to try RyJ Vintage #2 or #1 as well, so is Montecristo Espacial #1 or 3, if I do not like them, I will give up on non-cuban spin offs and stick to new boutique brands I named above which I liked, Ashton, AF and Cuban Monte #2 and Cohibas. But I love trying new brands, diffent brands, its like tasting diff wines and scotches.

Just bought Tatauje Noellas brown label for $8, not cheap, but can't wait to taste it.. A local shop did not have LFD DL Chisel or Churchil Espacial sizes, just Chiselito, so I did not get any. I am thinking fo getting Ahston 5 cig sampler with all its lines for $45 shipped on famous.. Good way to try all their lines, I have a feeling VSG will be my favorite..

Your list looks pretty good to me. Padron Delicias and 2000 are my go to smokes. Oliva is also a great manufacturer.

Try the Punch Magnum, Gran Puro Libertad (fresh), The Hoyo Excalibur, or the ERdM Flor de Llaneza for better examples of what Villazon is currently producing. Certainly not as good as before they were bought out.

Punch and ERdM have a certain flavor notes in the profile that I actually crave. Probably the combo of the Conn Broadleaf, and Eq Sumatran. While I like Padron and Oliva more these days, I still smoke at least a box of each of these a year.

MadMonk said:

Your list looks pretty good to me. Padron Delicias and 2000 are my go to smokes. Oliva is also a great manufacturer.

Try the Punch Magnum, Gran Puro Libertad (fresh), The Hoyo Excalibur, or the ERdM Flor de Llaneza for better examples of what Villazon is currently producing. Certainly not as good as before they were bought out.

Punch and ERdM have a certain flavor notes in the profile that I actually crave. Probably the combo of the Conn Broadleaf, and Eq Sumatran. While I like Padron and Oliva more these days, I still smoke at least a box of each of these a year.

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Thanks. I will get another try to Excalibur mad and nat, maybe age them 6months. My local new liquor store has a nice small hunidor and always has specials. I just bought a Rocky 1990 toro for $6/stick. They have Punch Champion for $5, Magnum I think is $7, would champion taste good compared to Magnum, or how different? They have Gran Puro on sale in corona gorda size looks like for $5.25, would that do? I know they are Sun Grown line, so should taste good. I just picked up Pedormo Lot23 and 10 year ann. Champaigne for $4/stick there as well, Virtuoso Torano is on sale for $5/stick in toro size, I will grab that as well next. Oliva O nat robusto and toro are for $4.29 there, need to get some too. I want to get some AF Cuban Belicoso SG but local stores want $3/stick more then online guys, but online you need to get 10+ sticks to justify $5-7 shipping.

The Champion was a favorite in the national sampling that had samples sent to smokers, and feedback sent back. I like it ok, but the magnum is more flavorful to my palate. I.e., Villazon's smokes seem to shine most to my palate in the larger ring gauges. That said, why not try the champion. 4 or 5 bucks is cheap tuition. Just take your time smoking it, let it warm up, and try to smoke it into the last third to really get an idea with what you are dealing with.

The Gran Puro is a great way to taste Honduran Tobacco. Hell, I would try it in any size to gain that experience.

MadMonk said:

The Champion was a favorite in the national sampling that had samples sent to smokers, and feedback sent back. I like it ok, but the magnum is more flavorful to my palate. I.e., Villazon's smokes seem to shine most to my palate in the larger ring gauges. That said, why not try the champion. 4 or 5 bucks is cheap tuition. Just take your time smoking it, let it warm up, and try to smoke it into the last third to really get an idea with what you are dealing with.

The Gran Puro is a great way to taste Honduran Tobacco. Hell, I would try it in any size to gain that experience.

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Great, I will get some today. Should I bother with Punch Punch? I did not like the Rare Corojo Rothschild by the way, it was a bit harsh to me.

Also want to try some Padron 2000, Delicias, and Londres in nat & mat for $2.5-$4 I have to try them.. Also Don Pepin cheap line Tobacos Baez SF line for $3 a must try, guy in cigar shop told me as he was puffing on Monte N.2 cuba.. And Ambos Mundos I need to try as well for under $5 a stick.. How will Saint Luis Ray Belicoso would be you think? they are like $.50 in the store? Worth trying? Oliva O are next as well.. Oliva G I did not like in mad or nat, weird taste and smell..

MadMonk said:

Try the Punch Magnum, Gran Puro Libertad (fresh), The Hoyo Excalibur, or the ERdM Flor de Llaneza for better examples of what Villazon is currently producing.

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I would add that I generally stay away from the maduro versions of most of these as the wrapper can have an off tasting sourness to it. That being said, several of these NCs are good smokes: Punch Magnum, Hoyo Estelo, Sancho Panza Double Maduro Lancero (which is not a lancero size) and any of the La Gloria Cubana Artesanos de Miami series.

punk_lawyer said:

MadMonk said:

Try the Punch Magnum, Gran Puro Libertad (fresh), The Hoyo Excalibur, or the ERdM Flor de Llaneza for better examples of what Villazon is currently producing.

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I would add that I generally stay away from the maduro versions of most of these as the wrapper can have an off tasting sourness to it. That being said, several of these NCs are good smokes: Punch Magnum, Hoyo Estelo, Sancho Panza Double Maduro Lancero (which is not a lancero size) and any of the La Gloria Cubana Artesanos de Miami series.

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I figured about maduros that would happen, but then 1066 Dark Knight II maduro was smooth, oily, very dark but lacked flavor?! The natural 1066 was better but for the price I would go with Torano Silver.. I will try the Champion and magnum by Punch and Gran Puro coron gorda size since it is on sale. And I will try the reg Hoyo line, my store does not have Estello but as per BCP website President, Governer and Robusto got 88-91 ratings, so I can try those as well, along with Tradicion line Corona and Toro as well. I had Sanch Panza Double Mady Robusto 2 days ago and it was pretty good smoke. As far as La Gloria, mystore has reg series in nat and mady, no Miami series. I also want to pick up Padron nat and mady 2000, Delicias, Londres and Ambasador to try since they are so cheap with such rave reviews and possibly age them for at least 6 months.

Will see how the Monte Platinum vintage 1990 carona will smoke along with RyJ 1875 cedro no.2 I have in the humi. How are they? what should I expect and how is the Vintage line #1 & 2? Should I try Monte Classic Epecure #3? they are $6 in my store.

punk_lawyer said:

MadMonk said:

Try the Punch Magnum, Gran Puro Libertad (fresh), The Hoyo Excalibur, or the ERdM Flor de Llaneza for better examples of what Villazon is currently producing.

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I would add that I generally stay away from the maduro versions of most of these as the wrapper can have an off tasting sourness to it. That being said, several of these NCs are good smokes: Punch Magnum, Hoyo Estelo, Sancho Panza Double Maduro Lancero (which is not a lancero size) and any of the La Gloria Cubana Artesanos de Miami series.

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Great point Stu. Fuente is the only conn broadleaf maduro I can enjoy these days. This sourness has been going on for several years too. I try a few a year to see if any improvement, but none at all. I sure as hell hope that they don't intentionally go for bitter, metallic, and sour.

I enjoy Punch very much. those & Sancho Panza Extra Fuertes are good too.

I don't find any of these products to be worth squat. For the same price you can get far superior cigars so why waste your time. The free time to burn a cigar is something I used to take for granted. If I have the time to smoke a cigar then is going to be the best I can get.


Mu Mike said it best "YES!"

Yes, I wouldn't bother with those brands. If you're looking for good non-Cuban brands, there are so many great selections. Padron, Fuente, Tatuaje, Don Pepin, Illusione, Ashton, Oliva, Davidoff, Alec Bradley, etc. The brands you listed to me are just marketing names IMHO, copying off the Cubans in only name. Those cigars are made by big corporations and can't hold a match to the real premium non-Cuban brands, let alone their namesake Cuban counterparts.

The expatriate group is a large and varied one...from La Gloria Cubana to La Aroma de Cuba (supposedly the Cuban version was one of Winston Churchill's favorites, while the Edicion Especial is blended by the widely acclaimed Don Pepin Garcia). Some are great, and yes, some suck. Don't close yourself off to what might become your next favorite smoke just because it shares a name with an entirely different Cuban cigar.

MadMonk said:

punk_lawyer said:

MadMonk said:

Try the Punch Magnum, Gran Puro Libertad (fresh), The Hoyo Excalibur, or the ERdM Flor de Llaneza for better examples of what Villazon is currently producing.

Click to expand...

I would add that I generally stay away from the maduro versions of most of these as the wrapper can have an off tasting sourness to it. That being said, several of these NCs are good smokes: Punch Magnum, Hoyo Estelo, Sancho Panza Double Maduro Lancero (which is not a lancero size) and any of the La Gloria Cubana Artesanos de Miami series.

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Great point Stu. Fuente is the only conn broadleaf maduro I can enjoy these days. This sourness has been going on for several years too. I try a few a year to see if any improvement, but none at all. I sure as hell hope that they don't intentionally go for bitter, metallic, and sour.

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Yes. I agree with sourness of Hoyo ExcaliburMady which is ranked in top 10 by CA was a bit bitter and sour compared to natural in same size. Should I still try Ashton aged maduro? Or they will be sour as well? I tried AF Rothschild in maduro and natural they were nothing special, no really good taste, just a taste of plain old tobaco, a bit smooth, nothing to write home about. I want to try the Double Chautau series in nat Connecticut and Maduro versions next. Just grabed 858 natural last night to compare to my friends maduro 858 he just got, since we smoke together most of the time and get a chance to compare

H311oLHD said:

I enjoy Punch very much. those & Sancho Panza Extra Fuertes are good too.

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Sancho Panza Double maduro was better to me than AF Maduro Rothschild, smooth taste. I have the regular Sanch Panza (brown label) sitting in the humi to try in robusto size. I am going to get Gran Puro and Punch Champion next to try as well. The reg Punch Robusto and rare corojo robusto were nothing special to me..

Smokyballs said:

I don't find any of these products to be worth squat. For the same price you can get far superior cigars so why waste your time. The free time to burn a cigar is something I used to take for granted. If I have the time to smoke a cigar then is going to be the best I can get.


Mu Mike said it best "YES!"

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Yes, so far all the spin off brands I tried were nothing special and felt overpriced compared to knew boutique brands. I still have some cubans in Humi to try: Hoyo short robusto, Punch Churchill, Cohiba Short Carona, RyJ Cedar wraped, will see. So far Bolivar carona and R. Allones I bought from someone on the forum were just OK, more tobaco taste than anything

scthornton said:

Yes, I wouldn't bother with those brands. If you're looking for good non-Cuban brands, there are so many great selections. Padron, Fuente, Tatuaje, Don Pepin, Illusione, Ashton, Oliva, Davidoff, Alec Bradley, etc. The brands you listed to me are just marketing names IMHO, copying off the Cubans in only name. Those cigars are made by big corporations and can't hold a match to the real premium non-Cuban brands, let alone their namesake Cuban counterparts.

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Just bought Tatauje Noellas brown label to try, loved Casa Magna Colorado Carona, to add to your list, Oliva V, and others on your list are on my list to try as well. So far all these new boutique brands were much better than most cubans I have smoked, I have not smoked Cohiba or Monte #2 in a long while, but I remember I loved them in the past. I would also add LG and LFD Double Ligero to the list, it was out of this world!

Gavin said:

The expatriate group is a large and varied one...from La Gloria Cubana to La Aroma de Cuba (supposedly the Cuban version was one of Winston Churchill's favorites, while the Edicion Especial is blended by the widely acclaimed Don Pepin Garcia). Some are great, and yes, some suck. Don't close yourself off to what might become your next favorite smoke just because it shares a name with an entirely different Cuban cigar.

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Yes, La Aroma de cuba especial and regular are on my list to try, was highly advised by my local B&M to try

Ashton Maduro is a very good cigar.

I also love the Sancho Panza Regular line, more than the Maduro.

If you smoke a lot of heavy cigars, you may not pick up the subtleties in lighter/milder blends.

Also, if you smoke a Tatuaje Noella in the morning, and then smoke a Villazon Sancho Panza a few hours later,

there is a good possibility that you will not get much flavor off the Sancho. Reverse order would be more fruitful.