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Collector's cigars vs. hype cigars

D

Danforz

Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2004
Messages
331
Hey guys. Been MIA for a while thanks to law school. Anyways, it being "that time of year" we're going to begin to see a lot of holiday releases come about from retailers. It made me start to think, which of these cigars are really worth it and how can you tell?

Now don't get me wrong. I'm perfectly happy with my Rocky Patel Edge Torpedo at $6 a stick (California price). But I have to admit, when I see these "special run" cigars with their shiny "limited edition" bands, mixed with decorations and hype, I do get a little excited. Ok, well I get a bit more than a little excited. I enjoy storing cigars almost as much as I enjoy smoking them. I hold on to them for celebratory days such as graduation, marriage, and divorce. But without the bank roll to purchase multiple sticks to sample, how do I know whats a keeper and whats just hype? Whats going to increase in value over time and what will be forgotten?

I suppose I should define a "keeper." To me, and if you disagree I'd love to hear your opinion, a Partagas 150 is keeper.

But now, I'm flashed with God of Fire, super-rare Ashton and Padron cigars, Camacho Liberty, Halloween Tatuajes, a horde of Christmas Fuente releases, and Rocky Patel now has a special edition Salmone? Obviously there are MUCH more than what I just named but you get the idea.

So, how do you fliter through all these. How do you find the cigars that have the quality, taste, value and longevity to really be a keeper?

Daniel
 
I know what I like and only rarely try anything new. If I'm doing a trade with someone I'll ask for them to send me some things they like or will buy something different at the B&M, but it's rare.

You'll get every answer in the book, on what is a keeper and what isn't. To me, the Partagas 150 isn't a keeper.
 
I feel like you really need to look at the brands to really understand what is actually limited edition.

Rocky Patel won't have any true limited edition cigars. When you roll 5 billion sticks a year, nothing is limited. He also doesn't work that way; quantity over quality.

Tatuaje still hasn't been in the public mainstream business long enough to know if he is going to release something really limited (it seems like he is).

Ashton, Arturo Fuente, Padron, etc. will have decent releases for the holidays.
 
Dan, as still a relative newbi, without your smoking one you just won't know yourself. Your taste buds are different. As an example, I went to my B&M this weekend and there is one guy there that is a long time smoker and can afford any stick you can name.

I asked him the same thing you just did in your above post. Now personally I prefer Padron, Fuente in maduro. He takes me into one of the room and we select a Cain, San Cristobal and La Aurora De Cuba.

I tried one each day. My personal findings said I did indeed like the Cain, smooth, good ash, nice burn. The San Cristobal turned out to be a mess of a smoke. The smoke was OK, the burn terrible and the ash looked like they used wood fillers. Looked like crap.

The La Aurora De Cuba was a deligh. Good taste, easy notes, terrific burn, great ash and a grand finish right to the end.

You have a plethora of folks here with exquisite taste, but even they do not always agree with each other.

I suggest you find a price point you can live with ( $6 - $10 ) range and just start shopping and smoking. When you find one you like, save the band for future reference.

Hope this helps a tad. Folks like Souldog24ca, Q-The-Cop, Rod, Shamrocker, Devil Doc and others will have plenty to say. Listen to them. They be the WIZARDS.

Regards;

Ed (Pugman)
 
An interesting question. When I first started smoking quality cigars, I got caught up in the 'chase'. The rarer the better, right? If mean, if it was a "limited" edition, it HAD to be good....right? Then, once the magical sticks arrived, how could I bring myself to smoke them? I mean, these babies are RARE.....right?

I can honestly say I'm "over it". Oh, sure, if I can pick up a box of Anejo's or Opies at retail, I'll snatch them up, but chase them? Not happening.

What changed? Perhaps it was due to my tastes refining, and finding out what I like. The realization that a "plain old" Padron '64 really is one of the best smokes you can get your hands on. The realization that there are tons of really great cigars, on the shelf of any B&M, all the time, no chase or price penalty required. Maybe it was the confidence in my palate and my choices that made me less enamored with the "rare" stuff. After a time, you pretty much don't care what other people think of what you smoke, as long as the experience is positive and good for you. I know what I like, and I'm OK with that. The stuff I like gets purchased in boxes and stored in my cabinet for aging. Sure, I'll try pretty much anything someone sends along, but as I said, I know what I like. There are perhaps a couple dozen cigars I'm rotating through now, and they are all different and very enjoyable, to me. I'm betting that most of our great B&M members probably have most if not all of them in stock.

There are guys that love the chase; love to smoke the rarest of the rare and that's cool. I'm not one of them, anymore. At the end of the day, there are many, many cigars that provide me with a quiet hour of relaxation and calm; that delight my palate and please the senses. That's why I smoke, and that's why the "chase" just doesn't hold much interest for me, anymore.

As they say - One Man's Opinion - B.B.S.
 
I'm a sucker for rarity, but I'm not going to freak out if I don't get them.

The nice thing about cigars is if you buy something rare, and it turns out you don't like it, someone will buy it off of you.

Edit: I'm not afraid to smoke anything either, haha
 
BlindedByScience said:
Oh, sure, if I can pick up a box of Anejo's or Opies at retail, I'll snatch them up, but chase them? Not happening.


There are guys that love the chase; love to smoke the rarest of the rare and that's cool.
Click to expand...

I think these are two very good points. I know lots of folks REALLY do enjoy finding that true hard to find cigar. That is their thing. They get enjoyment from finding that rarity...lots of hobbies have that very same quality. Others of us are inclined to pick up a rare one only when it falls in our lap.

Are the cigars good? Most likely a limited release will be good. Great? Who knows. I think that someone mentioned the price point. If you cannot feel good about the price point on a cigar then chances are good that you will be disappointed in the cigar. I think some people find it tough to think a cigar is great when constantly asking themselves if they overpaid for it. So, pick a splurge point...the price that you can live with for a rare-ish cigar, stick with it and then go for it. Opus and Anejo will at the very least be good.

Oh, and sorry to hear about the whole law school thing...it kinda ruins your social life, doesn't it? :D
 
The only thing that makes a cigar "special occasion only" for me is . . . it's a gift from a friend. Now, some of those have been rare and special cigars indeed, because I'm lucky enough to have great friends, but the HTF, the LE, the special bands and boxes and such?

I'll suck 'em down like Coca-cola whenever I can afford to. :laugh:

That said, I've had only a few great Opus X cigars, but no bad ones, and ONLY great GOF cigars. Since the GOFs are, albeit a bit spendier, easier by far for me to come by, they're what I tend to splurge on. The LE Tats I'd smoked have so far been terrific, but so are the J21s and the Verocu #9 Holt's sells.

And a PAN '64 torp, or a nice Illusione Epernay or Padilla Miami or La Riqueza #2 or Ashton VSG, will almost always be in stock at my local B&M, and those never disappoint.

~Boar
 
w00ts!te said:
I feel like you really need to look at the brands to really understand what is actually limited edition.

Rocky Patel won't have any true limited edition cigars. When you roll 5 billion sticks a year, nothing is limited. He also doesn't work that way; quantity over quality.

Tatuaje still hasn't been in the public mainstream business long enough to know if he is going to release something really limited (it seems like he is).

Ashton, Arturo Fuente, Padron, etc. will have decent releases for the holidays.
Click to expand...

Can't help but laugh at this. RP can't make anything limited because of how many sticks he rolls? I'm fairly certain the Fuentes roll more than him, yet you say they'll have decent releases for the holidays.

Also, you don't know if Pete is going to release anything limited? Have you been around? That's all he releases now.

And finally, I'm really interested in these Padron holiday releases you're talking about... any word on what they are?
 
BlindedByScience said:
I can honestly say I'm "over it". Oh, sure, if I can pick up a box of Anejo's or Opies at retail, I'll snatch them up, but chase them? Not happening.

What changed? Perhaps it was due to my tastes refining, and finding out what I like. The realization that a "plain old" Padron '64 really is one of the best smokes you can get your hands on. The realization that there are tons of really great cigars, on the shelf of any B&M, all the time, no chase or price penalty required. Maybe it was the confidence in my palate and my choices that made me less enamored with the "rare" stuff. After a time, you pretty much don't care what other people think of what you smoke, as long as the experience is positive and good for you.
Click to expand...

Maybe you're just a crotchety old man Tom!!! :laugh: :sign:


Well, I'm a bit of a Fuente fan, so I tend to collect for Fuente crap. To me, the Fuente releases are collectible, while to my buddy Sneeds, they may not be. To Sneeds, a Tatuaje or a Litto Gomez release is collectible, while I don't find them that special. It's all about your personal taste.

I will say though, I feel the Opus 22 Set is a collectible set due to the cigars that are inside, the packaging, etc. My set is in my Death Pass and Sneeds knows if I kick it, he needs to take one from it, then sell the rest of those motherbitches and raise some money to give to the Wifey! ;) To me, Fuente's HTFs can always be snatched up by another "believer" at the price it was bought.

To quote Tom, "One Man's Opinion."
 
tomthirtysix said:
w00ts!te said:
I feel like you really need to look at the brands to really understand what is actually limited edition.

Rocky Patel won't have any true limited edition cigars. When you roll 5 billion sticks a year, nothing is limited. He also doesn't work that way; quantity over quality.

Tatuaje still hasn't been in the public mainstream business long enough to know if he is going to release something really limited (it seems like he is).

Ashton, Arturo Fuente, Padron, etc. will have decent releases for the holidays.
Click to expand...

Can't help but laugh at this. RP can't make anything limited because of how many sticks he rolls? I'm fairly certain the Fuentes roll more than him, yet you say they'll have decent releases for the holidays.

Also, you don't know if Pete is going to release anything limited? Have you been around? That's all he releases now.

And finally, I'm really interested in these Padron holiday releases you're talking about... any word on what they are?
Click to expand...


Tom...I'm assuming the Padron samplers will be the same as they are every year. It's the '64 sampler, the '26 sampler, and the No.88 sampler, which is the x000 series and an Exclusivo.
 
BlindedByScience said:
An interesting question. When I first started smoking quality cigars, I got caught up in the 'chase'. The rarer the better, right? If mean, if it was a "limited" edition, it HAD to be good....right? Then, once the magical sticks arrived, how could I bring myself to smoke them? I mean, these babies are RARE.....right?

I can honestly say I'm "over it". Oh, sure, if I can pick up a box of Anejo's or Opies at retail, I'll snatch them up, but chase them? Not happening.

What changed? Perhaps it was due to my tastes refining, and finding out what I like. The realization that a "plain old" Padron '64 really is one of the best smokes you can get your hands on. The realization that there are tons of really great cigars, on the shelf of any B&M, all the time, no chase or price penalty required. Maybe it was the confidence in my palate and my choices that made me less enamored with the "rare" stuff. After a time, you pretty much don't care what other people think of what you smoke, as long as the experience is positive and good for you. I know what I like, and I'm OK with that. The stuff I like gets purchased in boxes and stored in my cabinet for aging. Sure, I'll try pretty much anything someone sends along, but as I said, I know what I like. There are perhaps a couple dozen cigars I'm rotating through now, and they are all different and very enjoyable, to me. I'm betting that most of our great B&M members probably have most if not all of them in stock.

There are guys that love the chase; love to smoke the rarest of the rare and that's cool. I'm not one of them, anymore. At the end of the day, there are many, many cigars that provide me with a quiet hour of relaxation and calm; that delight my palate and please the senses. That's why I smoke, and that's why the "chase" just doesn't hold much interest for me, anymore.

As they say - One Man's Opinion - B.B.S.
Click to expand...


Make that "two men's opinions" because you mailed it.

What changed it for me was smoking enough HTFs to realize that they don't taste a whole lot different from any other cigar. Some are very good, but not good enough to justify the hunt or the price. Others are just not good. I try new cigars regularly as I like to find new ones that I enjoy. But, for the most part, I know what I like and am content to buy and smoke them.
 
Interesting responses. Thank you for your insights and it seems we all agree. Theres a bit too much hype surrounding some of these cigars. Does lacking in overall quality detract from value? I'd assume many of the super aged cigars (imagine a pre-castro cuban) don't have much if any flavor. But I've seen them roll out for $80 a stick!

So I guess where I'm now taking this is what separates a cigar that gains value over time from a cigar that never does?

Will a Tat Frank have the same desirability (or at least price tag) as Partagas 150s? (150 price is $1000 per box on Thompson). Do limited boutique cigars develop greater desirability than do limited mass market cigars (think Opus Shark v. Tat Frank)
 
Buy what you like. Don't get caught up in chasing after the next big thing. It's typically not worth it and sometimes can lead to trouble.
 
Danforz said:
I'd assume many of the super aged cigars (imagine a pre-castro cuban) don't have much if any flavor. But I've seen them roll out for $80 a stick!

So I guess where I'm now taking this is what separates a cigar that gains value over time from a cigar that never does?
Click to expand...

Wow, already asking questions like this is a deposition!

DO NOT assume that a super aged cigar doesn't have much flavor. Some cigars that have been properly aged for decades are among the best that you can ever taste. The aging process can develop a melded flavor that cannot be attained in a 'fresh' cigar.

There is quite a bit of discussion about which cigars typically age well. Some here, including me, say that Padron in particular ages well. Bolivar (Cuban) is touted as having nearly limitless aging potential. I have had some decades old Partagas (Cuban) and La Gloria Cubana (Cuban) that were truly amazing. On the other hand, give a Gran Habano a year or so and you might wind up with a taste that is off from what you originally liked in the cigar. Search on CP will give you some guidance in thinking of what cigars really do gain quality (which does not necessarily equate to increased value or sale potential) over time.

Good luck.
 
I just must add one maybe almost final remark. You seem to be hung up on increase in value over time.

If you buy them, first of all, they are meant to be smoked, yes, aged for a bit, but smoked; not collected like Picasso etc.

Anyone will tell you, it's only worth what someone will pay, first you have to find a buyer; that being of course that you have stored what the gang is looking for. And no one here is going to pay a collectors rate for that magic cigar. Why, because there are enough folks here that will gift that person if it came right down to it.

My closing argument: buy only what YOU like and will smoke.

I wish you many puffs of pleasure and look forward to your posts and reviews of what you have found.
 
Fuente has his limited sticks...

I am still not completely sold on Tatuaje. The first Tatuajes were released in 2003 and when you compare that to something like Padron, Tats look like babies.

And when I mentioned holidays, I was really meaning any holiday, not just Christmas time.
 
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