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FOGs and Newbies
- Thread starter Matt R
- Start date
tone-ny
I smoke therefore I am!
- Joined
- Nov 24, 2004
- Messages
- 13,209
bfreebern said:Rob_k said:another new term to worry about...Zeebra said:
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Is that sort of like a MILF?
[snapback]299486[/snapback]
I been called a lot of shiz in my life but never a FOGILF, Zee thanks buddy, I think :love:
Matt,
I'm missing the point of your post. Honestly. Would you be willing to explain the constructive purpose of what you wrote? Over the last few months, I've read your posts here as well as on other boards and while I admit that most of your writing doesn't make much sense to me, lately, a few posts have given me glimpses into who's behind the avatar. Specifically, some of the things you've said have had me thinking that "he's showing me examples of thoughtfulness, incisiveness, integrity" and dare I say it, even sensitivity.
But this post, unless it is meant solely as comic relief, achieves nothing toward the nobler end that The Master in his thread proposes as the essence of "FOG-like" behavior. It's divisive when it could be uniting. "You guys over here. You guys over there. And anything else doesn't mean squat." It's demeaning when it could be dignifying.
Let me share with you what I think about this whole ridiculous nonsense:
A man is as a man does.
The proposal of senseless, meaningless criteria for the objective definition of essentially what amounts to a portrait of noble character is absurd. Those who crave the label of "FOG" are chasing a goal that is beside the point. To those who have achieved the character to merit being called "FOG," the label is valueless.
In my humble opinion, experience/longevity is but one aspect that is often identified as an essential characteristic of the mythical beast referred to as a "FOG." It is neither necessary nor sufficient. What this does provide, though, is a legitimating function. One is less likely to be considered a detriment to the community of cigar smokers if one has demonstrated the interest and willpower to stay active in the community over an extended period of time.
What is far more fundamental to "FOG-ness", and I welcome all comers to debate this point, is the strength of good character as evidenced in one's words, actions and dealings with his fellow community members. That one demonstrate humor, integrity, guidance, authority, compassion, curisoity and genuine man-to-man regard for those earnestly and genuinely trying to learn and give back is what I look for. Personally, if I don't see these things, I couldn't care less if you've been smoking and collecting Habanas as long as George Burns had smoked El Producto Queens (40 yrs.)
Which brings me to the final points of my post. Deference is not evidence of respect. However, civility usually cultivates a respectful attitude. Further, respect that exists and has currency only within the confines and context of an abstract, virtual community such as a cigar forum is, frankly, of vanishingly little value, ultimately. Allow me to illustrate my point.
It is my hope to meet and smoke with as many of you guys as I can reasonably make happen. And when I meet you face-to-face, and we talk man-to-man, in the flesh, what matters is how I regard you and how I am regarded by you as a living breathing person in the big, real world out there. After all, the life we live out here has no reset button and a "server failure" means a lot more than the inability to post about a cigar I just smoked.
As I read back over my post, it occurred to me that your post might actually have been intended to lighten things up. If this is the case, or even if it isn't, I've said something that I've been wanting to say for a while and perhaps it'll spark a little bit more debate or discussion. In retrospect, perhaps this should have been posted in TM's thread.
Wilkey
I'm missing the point of your post. Honestly. Would you be willing to explain the constructive purpose of what you wrote? Over the last few months, I've read your posts here as well as on other boards and while I admit that most of your writing doesn't make much sense to me, lately, a few posts have given me glimpses into who's behind the avatar. Specifically, some of the things you've said have had me thinking that "he's showing me examples of thoughtfulness, incisiveness, integrity" and dare I say it, even sensitivity.
But this post, unless it is meant solely as comic relief, achieves nothing toward the nobler end that The Master in his thread proposes as the essence of "FOG-like" behavior. It's divisive when it could be uniting. "You guys over here. You guys over there. And anything else doesn't mean squat." It's demeaning when it could be dignifying.
Let me share with you what I think about this whole ridiculous nonsense:
A man is as a man does.
The proposal of senseless, meaningless criteria for the objective definition of essentially what amounts to a portrait of noble character is absurd. Those who crave the label of "FOG" are chasing a goal that is beside the point. To those who have achieved the character to merit being called "FOG," the label is valueless.
In my humble opinion, experience/longevity is but one aspect that is often identified as an essential characteristic of the mythical beast referred to as a "FOG." It is neither necessary nor sufficient. What this does provide, though, is a legitimating function. One is less likely to be considered a detriment to the community of cigar smokers if one has demonstrated the interest and willpower to stay active in the community over an extended period of time.
What is far more fundamental to "FOG-ness", and I welcome all comers to debate this point, is the strength of good character as evidenced in one's words, actions and dealings with his fellow community members. That one demonstrate humor, integrity, guidance, authority, compassion, curisoity and genuine man-to-man regard for those earnestly and genuinely trying to learn and give back is what I look for. Personally, if I don't see these things, I couldn't care less if you've been smoking and collecting Habanas as long as George Burns had smoked El Producto Queens (40 yrs.)
Which brings me to the final points of my post. Deference is not evidence of respect. However, civility usually cultivates a respectful attitude. Further, respect that exists and has currency only within the confines and context of an abstract, virtual community such as a cigar forum is, frankly, of vanishingly little value, ultimately. Allow me to illustrate my point.
It is my hope to meet and smoke with as many of you guys as I can reasonably make happen. And when I meet you face-to-face, and we talk man-to-man, in the flesh, what matters is how I regard you and how I am regarded by you as a living breathing person in the big, real world out there. After all, the life we live out here has no reset button and a "server failure" means a lot more than the inability to post about a cigar I just smoked.
As I read back over my post, it occurred to me that your post might actually have been intended to lighten things up. If this is the case, or even if it isn't, I've said something that I've been wanting to say for a while and perhaps it'll spark a little bit more debate or discussion. In retrospect, perhaps this should have been posted in TM's thread.
Wilkey
bfreebern
Yada, Yada, Yada.
- Joined
- Jun 22, 2004
- Messages
- 17,747
tone-ny said:bfreebern said:Rob_k said:another new term to worry about...Zeebra said:
[snapback]299482[/snapback]
Is that sort of like a MILF?
[snapback]299486[/snapback]
I been called a lot of shiz in my life but never a FOGILF, Zee thanks buddy, I think :love:
[snapback]299492[/snapback]
I guess it's cold in Canada?
kiltedcraftsman
Member
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2004
- Messages
- 933
Ginseng said:
Well put Wilkey. Well put.
tone-ny
I smoke therefore I am!
- Joined
- Nov 24, 2004
- Messages
- 13,209
Ginseng said:Zeebra said:
I like Anthony and all that, but, and don't take this the wrong way...I wouldn't hit it.:sign:
Wilkey
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Wilkey I'm just devastated, I shave my legs during cycling season! :thumbs:
tone-ny said:Ginseng said:Zeebra said:
I like Anthony and all that, but, and don't take this the wrong way...I wouldn't hit it.
Wilkey
[snapback]299496[/snapback]
Wilkey I'm just devastated, I shave my legs during cycling season! :thumbs:
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Ahh, the silky soft caress of...nah! I still can't do it! :laugh:
Wilkey
