Hunting - The CigarPass way

[Unclebillybonz]

Shame on you for culling the herd there. Don't you know it's much better to let them die of starvation and disease? Death by front bumper of a 1/2 ton chevy is also prefered over what you are doing! :sign:

 

[Turk10mm]

not much chance of a front bumper being the last thing on their mind on our piece, but starvation is only a heartbeat away in west texas. We feed protein and corn to supplement their diet. you should see the doe with fawn, they look pretty thin at times of the year. We have one right now with twins. Its pretty late in the season for suckling fawns, so I'm guessing she lost her first and went into heat again.

eventually we'll probably introduce some bucks from the wild game auction to insert some new genetics into the population. Its not like they're going to be cross breeding or anything, but a little diversity at some point will help the herd.

its really neat to see wildlife flourish in a place that is typically pretty tough country for wildlife.

but i definitely feel ya. I think some people don't realize that different regions have different issues.

 

[OpusXKC]

The real important question here is, is that a Surefire can or a YHM Phantom ?

ahh hah, someone who knows.. its a phantom. my next second phantom has the paperwork in as we speak. 7.62, for the 308. I shoot so much lately, it'll really save in the long run. My sbr paperwork for the AR is also in.

You should try the 7.62 Phantom on your AR after you get it. You'll be surprise how well it works. Best all around can on the market IMHO.

 

[Turk10mm]

the 7.62 isn't going to be a QD, its going to be threaded. Not sure if they make an adapter.

 

[gunsandcigars88]

The real important question here is, is that a Surefire can or a YHM Phantom ?

ahh hah, someone who knows.. its a phantom. my next second phantom has the paperwork in as we speak. 7.62, for the 308. I shoot so much lately, it'll really save in the long run. My sbr paperwork for the AR is also in.

What is the point in suppresing an AR15? The sonic crack that you get from the .223 round makes a suppresor pointless. Most Supressor dealers will do there best to talk you out of buying a supressor for an AR15 its so pointless. Unless you are using Subsonic rounds, which is quite dangerous if you don't know what you are doing. Supressing the .308 on the other hand is a good idea. Though I still have one more question? How is paying hundreds on a suppresor and $200 on the Tax Stamp going to save you money in the long run? Though they can help accuracy some, it is definately not going to help that much. With the type of weapons you are shooting especially. Those firearms are capable on pinpoint accuracy as is. I am looking forward to hearing your reasoning on this matter.
B

Suppressing any firearm with bullet velocity above the speed of sound is "pointless." I use them because I shoot several hundred rounds or more a week. A suppressed AR is not quiet by any stretch, but its no louder than a 22. The concussion from a 5.56 is pretty high for its size, and this concussion is almost gone when suppressed. It doesn't save me money in the long run, it saves ME in the long run. My ears namely. It definitely drops the sound level to a point where you don't have to wear muffs if you wanted. I still wear them, but its not painful to shoot without them like it would be if you didn't have a suppressor.

If you dump a mag without muffs on your ears will ring at best. At worst you'll sustain some hearing damage. If you dump a mag with a suppressor on you'll barely even notice you had been firing.

Without a suppressor an AR15 with a 16" barrel will run around 165db, with a suppressor it'll run down around 130db. 140db is the point where osha says you should wear hearing protection for even brief exposures.

oh ya, i forgot to mention, they're cool too. and will soon be impossible to purchase turning my hundreds of dollar investment into thousands of dollar investments. Its very similar to a Mac 10. They were 190 bucks in 1986 before the machine gun ban. Today they're 3-4 thousand. Hows about that for making a profit. I know some fellas who invested 10 grand in FA weapons and turned it into over 300k in 15 years. Pretty solid investment if you ask me.

Yea, I am very aware of the DB levels and all that. I was just wondering of your reason in this. I prefer to just save hundreds on the Supressor and go with a $15 pair of muffs. You still didn't answer my question about if you are using subsonic rounds?
B

 

[Turk10mm]

i do not use subsonic ammunition. I've fired some through it but it doesn't like to cycle properly. when using subsonic ammo its almost movie quiet. sounds like a pellet gun.

 

[Devil Doc]

You were doing a good job of articulating your point of view and helping me to understand where you were coming from. Unfortunately you made this post. Only my respect for Rod and the rules here prevent me from jumping down your throat. I suspect liquid courage had something to do with it. I'm done with this.

Doc, you hunt your way and I'll hunt mine. Don't down play me and say that I give hunters a bad name and I won't think your an ass for trashing my post.

Doc.

 

[Turk10mm]

when you said

You need to come to Vermont, where we actually hunt. What you're doing is unethical, as far as I'm concered, and gives hunters a bad name. Stalking turkeys is a good way to get shot around here.

Doc.

You were intending an insult towards me. I don't need liquid courage to comment on how I perceived what you wrote. Your post count or time here don't prevent me or scare me from returning the favor with an off handed insult that was very similar to your own. If you think I'm doing something unethical and I give hunters a bad name its in poor form to say so publicly. It is insulting, actually.

I wasn't helping you to understand my point of view at all. You had chosen a side and made clear in your responses throughout the topic that you disagreed with me, rather aggressively, and never once said anything similar to "well I don't like it but I now see your side." Had you made a comment like that, I would believe that I was helping you to understand my position rather than be put down.

If I've offended you, I apologize. It was rather flippant, but I was merely intending to show you how it felt.

 

[mufflerman]

Someone needs to shoot the surplus deer. Does it matter where they're shot from, be it a helicopter, jeep, or back porch? I'm sure regions have a play in this as well. How they've grown up hunting in New England and in Texas I'm sure are polar opposites.

Gunsandcigars: Since you have "guns" in your name I'll assume you own at least one. You probably think guns are cool. Suppressors just make them more cool! It's extra fun to be able to shoot an M-16 without hearing protection. At least mine is that effective (M4-2000). I also have a Raptor-9 and a AWC Archangel-T. That one is awesome on a MkII or P22.

 

[Macion Grey]

It's exactly the opposite here. If your land isn't legally posted, IE. no hunting, it's considered open land. We take our property rights seriously here as well and everyone has a right to the land no matter who owns it.

Doc.

That sounds incredibly stupid. If some jerk came into my backyard and started shooting the shed thinking it was a large, chromatic elephant I would be rather pissed off. Everyone having the right to someone's land is absolutely weird.

My land is my land, until I sell it or die. I pay for it... the stranger in my backyard does not.

Well, first of all it's illegal to hunt within 500ft. of a building. Second of all, you could post your land. The natives will hate you, of course, and call you a know-it-all flatlander. Some Woodchucks, will take great offense for posting land their 7 generations have been hunting on and make you miserable and regret you even thought of doing such a thing. It works for us and we ain't changing the way we do things around here. Fuggin' Flatlanders. :laugh:

Doc.

500ft... that's about 150 meters. Whilst I am glad to hear it is illegal to hunt too near buildings, 150 meters seems a little small doesn't it? I know that a modern rifle bullet easily travels 500 meters before loosing power, so wouldn't such a small 'no shoot' perimeter around your building pretty much be useless against stray bullets? Even if the law was extended to encompass 500 meters that would be safer in my book.

I know if I had that sort of land, and people hunted as close to 150 meters near my property I would definitely post it as no hunting (kids and all). Well... if I lived in America in the first place . Over here there is no hunting except on your own property, and some property owners allow hunting on their land for a fee (or even pay hunters to cull pests). That system makes more sense to me admittedly, but I understand where you are coming from regarding traditional land owners.

 

[Unclebillybonz]

When you have an over population of a species (such as deer) then measures need to be taken to reduce the size of that population for the benefit of them all!

Here in ND we have way too many deer running around. With out culling the herds the animals would die from starvation and/or disease so people are now allowed to purchase multiple tags to harvest more than one animal! The Game and Fish routinely thin out deer herds here. It's good conservation to do this and I have zero problem with Turk culling a herd on his land if it's overpopulated.

What some people see as unethical behavior I see as responsible management of a resource. I would much rather see some extra animals beeing harvested than starving to death, spreading disease that can decimate entire herds or winding up causing car accidents due to too many animals running around.

We just finished our deer hunting season, 3 of us harvested 5 animals (1 buck btw). And meat has been taken to a local buisness for processing into sausage and jerky, I have a roast cooking in the crock pot as I type, and the hides were donated to the Game and Fish Dept. for 'Hides for Habitat'.

Also, over the last several years we have also developed a mountain lion problem in the western part of the state do to over population. The Game and Fish have encouraged extra harvesting of the cats. I also have zero problem with this even though they are not 'game' animals.

*edited for addition

 

[Turk10mm]

we have some cats on our property. I've never seen one, but I've found remains that indicate we do. I don't think I'd take one of these animals on our property purely because we can use all the help we can get. If the yotes would only take older prey instead of younger I think they'd have a better chance to survive. Unfortunately they only seem to target the babies.

 

[gunsandcigars88]

i do not use subsonic ammunition. I've fired some through it but it doesn't like to cycle properly. when using subsonic ammo its almost movie quiet. sounds like a pellet gun.

Ok, I just wanted to be sure that you weren't. I am guessing you are shooting a standard 1 in 9" twist ratio barrel? Subsonic rounds have a tendency to wobble slightly when exiting the barrel, which can cause a baffle strike in your suppresor. needless to say that can get really ugly. You can use a 1 in 8" twist ratio barrel instead to fix that problem, but most supressor companies won't do any warranty work if you have used subsonic rounds through the supressor anyway. Of course the cycling problems is due to the subsonic rounds not producing enough pressure for the semi-automatic system to operate.
B

 

[Turk10mm]

actually, i shoot a 1/7 twist barrel. It works much better with heavier loads than the 1/9

 

[Swissy]

I have a Red Ryder BB gun...

 

[bfisher88]

I have a Red Ryder BB gun...

Does that work on those moose up there?

 

[Unclebillybonz]

I have a Red Ryder BB gun...

Don't shoot your eye out!

 

[Swissy]

I have a Red Ryder BB gun...

Does that work on those moose up there?

Naw... I have a .338 Red Ryder for that. But the Red Ryder BB is great for ptarmagin and grouse! :laugh: more effective when you walk up to them and whack them with the butt instead of shooting them however...

 

[smellysell]

What is the purpose of the fence that keeps out the natural predators? I honestly don't know and don't want to be presumptuous.

 

[Turk10mm]

Its not to keep out the natural predators. Its too keep the animal population we have in, to prevent them from being killed on roads and by neighboring hunters. Most if not all of the exotics on our property are also found free range, but not in the populations that we've been able to create by high fencing. The drawback is that without control some of the species do so well that they can overpopulate.

So basically you have two options, a) rarely, if ever, see an exotic or b) high fence and follow appropriate practices to manage the ecosystem. This is done with biologists that take animal counts and also inspect the property itself for signs of overpopulation. Basically they take all the factors into account and give you a report on the health of your ranch's wildlife and ecosystem. (edited to add They also provide a count on each animal and also provide a goal count for your specific property. Sometimes you aren't to cull anything. Sometimes you are only supposed to cull doe, other times, just bucks, other times shoot everything that moves. Basically the owner becomes the natural predator since there aren't any. There are almost no natural predators of wild game in Texas. Coyotes have easier pickens with people's chickens, goats, calves. Mountain Lions are so rare because they've been killed off by the people with the goats, chickens, and cows.

One of the fringe benefits of high fencing and having a wonderful place to retreat, that's filled with a variety of wildlife, is the ability to fill your freezer with meat, educate children on wildlife and conservation, etc.

If all we wanted to do was shoot animals we wouldn't spend the money on high fencing, biologists, and ecosystem improvements such as building ponds, clearing the cedar (that is not native to texas). You'd just stick a feeder up and shoot every deer that walked by.

As a perfect example, every time we go up there we pick an area and cut all the cedars down in the area. By cutting all the cedars down you can turn a dry creekbed into a flowing stream. Cedars are the scourge of west texas. At one time, before cedars West Texas was nowhere NEAR as arid. I'll spend a lifetime cutting down cedars unfortunately.