Never heard this excuse before...

[Gonz]

So I was down in Jamaica last week on vacation, and I stopped by a shop in Ocho Rios that I suspected might have genuine cigars. Of course we all know that 99% of the "Cuban" cigars in Jamaica are fake, but it was at least worth checking out. One of the things that always intrigues me about these shops selling fakes is that alot of them are not just selling popular cigars like Cohiba, Montecristo, Partagas and RyJ. Many are selling lesser known or less popular cigars as well, such as boxes of Hoyo Epicures on the shelves, or even boxes of Guantanameras. Why would someone go through the trouble of counterfeiting a mediocre machine made cigar like the Guatanameras? Or the Fonseca line? Don't get me wrong, I actually love the Fonseca lineup, and especially for the price think they're fantastic, but is it worth the trouble to create a fake of a $4 cigar?

Anyways, while at this shop (Cigar Planet at the Taj Mahal center in Ocho Rios) I was checking out the inventory and talking with the proprietor and picked up several boxes and noticed there were no box codes. There was some other stamp on them that I didn't get a good look at, but not a single box code/date. When I asked about this he told me that he sends the empty boxes back to Cuba to be refilled, and he showed me a stack of about 50 empty boxes. This reminds me a little of why some stores won't let you have the empty Opus boxes, because they get refilled by Fuente (at least that's what they say).

Of course the other big red flag was the box of Montecristo "C" EL 2006's sitting on the shelf. As far as I know that cigar does not exist. The Monte C EL was released in 03.

Does anyone know anything about boxes being refilled and missing box codes? Or more specifically, has anyone else heard that excuse? I'm almost certain it's BS (but I hate to rush to judgment) and this guy, like everyone else in Jamaica is selling fakes, but I thought I'd see what everyone else thought. The cigars themselves actually didn't look bad. Triple caps when appropriate, decent looking wrappers and filler, and didn't smell way off. It's always hard when you don't have a "control" specimen to compare the suspect cigars to.

 

[Newfie]

Hey Gonz!!!

Some comments related to your thread:

Boxes with no date code:

I don't doubt for one second that these are fake. Everywhere you go in Cuba you'll see someone (the old story) who has a sister who's husbands brother has a second cousin twice removes who knows a janitor .............................. you all know the rest. I think everyone here knows this and it's no secret to anyone, but it still amazes me that anyone who goes anywhere that you can buy Cubans, and still fall for the story!!! These boxes have no date code and no stickers attached (at least, all the ones I've seen, and around the resorts, you'll see plenty). The yellow Habanos sticker and the Cuban seal are both always inside the box with the cigars, and there's no hologram on the box itself.

Refilling used boxes:

Last fall, we went to Cuba early in the season, and the shops in the resorts (all run by the Govt under the name Casa del Habanos hadn't been fully stocked yet, so to get any cigars it was a pick through the open boxes and take what you want, but they would not, under any circumstances, give me an empty box. Matter of facy, the only full box I got my hands on were RyJ Coronitas en Cedros. One shop I went to had a box of Cuaba with 7 left, and I bought all 7 (don't remember the vitola, long gone now ). I asked for the box to keep 'em safe for the long trip home. No way Jose, not on my life could I talk them out of ANY empty box, and I emptied several by buying 5ers and such. There was no explaination, no reason, just a flat-out plain NO. Personally, I would highly doubt they refill these boxes. I believe it's just a measure to help prevent counterfiets leaving the country (see note below).

Getting empty boxes out of the country:

As I said above (and again as we all know), counterfeits are easy to get. While I was there, I wanted to get a couple of empty boxes to send Wade for cigar clocks and promised him I'd get 'em. I did get my hands on some, courtesy of one of the entertainment staff at the resort who knew someone. I paid 5 CUC for each box, but figured it was worth it. These were IMHO counterfiet boxes as there was no labelling, no date stamp, etc. Either that, or the dude DID actually know someone who worked at the place where they made the boxes!!! However, it was living hell trying to get them out of the country. At customs in the airport in Camaguey, I had official receipts for all cigars I was bringing with me. I made sure all quantities matched the receipts so there'd be no hassles. These were all in my carry-on luggage (no way were they going in the hold). I also had the "empty & clean" boxes, and Customs got very suspicious of these. None of the cigars I was legally exporting (remember, with receipts) matched the brand or vitola of empty boxes I had. I insisted I wanted the boxes as souvenirs only and had nothing that could be considered contraband. Well, they went out back, and actually got our luggage from the holding area and searched through it piece by piece with us there. (I think one guy got his jollies by rifling through The Bride's knickers with her watching!!!) Only when they had all 3 suitcases empty and were satisfied we weren't trying to smuggle anything did they allow us to repack everything, and after a conference they allowed me to keep the boxes.

The wife was right F**king bent out of shape that I would put us through this for a couple of empty cigar boxes and to be honest, I don't know if I'd even want to try it again.

The rule is that you're allowed to take up to 23 cigars (someone told me it's 24) per person out of the country without receipts. However, I found out that they MUST NOT be in boxes. There was a couple of kids on our flight who lost their $40 boxes of Siglo VI because they had 22 in the box, and the box had no stickers attached, but inside as I noted above. They were told if the cigars are out of the box, they can be brought out. In the box is a no-no, but they're obviously fakes.

 

[drew_goring]

On a slightly unrelated note, I have heard rumors of a shop in Calgary re-filling their legit boxes with suspect cigars. Although I haven't been able to confirm this.

 

[the nub]

Empty boxes are not allowed to be sold or given out, as Newfie has stated. I believe it has to do with keeping track of hologram serial numbers. Each box has a hologram. Each hologram has a serial number. Each serial number is tracked to a store. Boxes can't (not supposed to) leave the country without a factura and they won't issue one for an empty box.

 

[Matt R]

"Apu" was feeding you a line of BS, Gonz, as I'm sure you already know. Cigar Planet is made to look very legit, but nothing is real. You may get some machine-mades somewhere on the island that are legit, I've seen 'em in some of the resorts. So, he's blowing smoke up your a$$. The boxes he has in the shop, with no codes, are fake also. It's harder to get the blank box decorations out of the box factories, so they re-use the boxes as much as they can.

The only time a box will be opened and then released for sale again is when it has been returned by a wholesaler or store. Then the boxes will be stamped with a new box code and REVISADO after they've been inspected and re-sealed.

 

[moki]

100% bullshit -- how'd it taste, Gonz?

So I was down in Jamaica last week on vacation, and I stopped by a shop in Ocho Rios that I suspected might have genuine cigars. Of course we all know that 99% of the "Cuban" cigars in Jamaica are fake, but it was at least worth checking out. One of the things that always intrigues me about these shops selling fakes is that alot of them are not just selling popular cigars like Cohiba, Montecristo, Partagas and RyJ. Many are selling lesser known or less popular cigars as well, such as boxes of Hoyo Epicures on the shelves, or even boxes of Guantanameras. Why would someone go through the trouble of counterfeiting a mediocre machine made cigar like the Guatanameras? Or the Fonseca line? Don't get me wrong, I actually love the Fonseca lineup, and especially for the price think they're fantastic, but is it worth the trouble to create a fake of a $4 cigar?

Anyways, while at this shop (Cigar Planet at the Taj Mahal center in Ocho Rios) I was checking out the inventory and talking with the proprietor and picked up several boxes and noticed there were no box codes. There was some other stamp on them that I didn't get a good look at, but not a single box code/date. When I asked about this he told me that he sends the empty boxes back to Cuba to be refilled, and he showed me a stack of about 50 empty boxes. This reminds me a little of why some stores won't let you have the empty Opus boxes, because they get refilled by Fuente (at least that's what they say).

Of course the other big red flag was the box of Montecristo "C" EL 2006's sitting on the shelf. As far as I know that cigar does not exist. The Monte C EL was released in 03.

Does anyone know anything about boxes being refilled and missing box codes? Or more specifically, has anyone else heard that excuse? I'm almost certain it's BS (but I hate to rush to judgment) and this guy, like everyone else in Jamaica is selling fakes, but I thought I'd see what everyone else thought. The cigars themselves actually didn't look bad. Triple caps when appropriate, decent looking wrappers and filler, and didn't smell way off. It's always hard when you don't have a "control" specimen to compare the suspect cigars to.

 

[Gonz]

100% bullshit -- how'd it taste, Gonz?

So I was down in Jamaica last week on vacation, and I stopped by a shop in Ocho Rios that I suspected might have genuine cigars. Of course we all know that 99% of the "Cuban" cigars in Jamaica are fake, but it was at least worth checking out. One of the things that always intrigues me about these shops selling fakes is that alot of them are not just selling popular cigars like Cohiba, Montecristo, Partagas and RyJ. Many are selling lesser known or less popular cigars as well, such as boxes of Hoyo Epicures on the shelves, or even boxes of Guantanameras. Why would someone go through the trouble of counterfeiting a mediocre machine made cigar like the Guatanameras? Or the Fonseca line? Don't get me wrong, I actually love the Fonseca lineup, and especially for the price think they're fantastic, but is it worth the trouble to create a fake of a $4 cigar?

Anyways, while at this shop (Cigar Planet at the Taj Mahal center in Ocho Rios) I was checking out the inventory and talking with the proprietor and picked up several boxes and noticed there were no box codes. There was some other stamp on them that I didn't get a good look at, but not a single box code/date. When I asked about this he told me that he sends the empty boxes back to Cuba to be refilled, and he showed me a stack of about 50 empty boxes. This reminds me a little of why some stores won't let you have the empty Opus boxes, because they get refilled by Fuente (at least that's what they say).

Of course the other big red flag was the box of Montecristo "C" EL 2006's sitting on the shelf. As far as I know that cigar does not exist. The Monte C EL was released in 03.

Does anyone know anything about boxes being refilled and missing box codes? Or more specifically, has anyone else heard that excuse? I'm almost certain it's BS (but I hate to rush to judgment) and this guy, like everyone else in Jamaica is selling fakes, but I thought I'd see what everyone else thought. The cigars themselves actually didn't look bad. Triple caps when appropriate, decent looking wrappers and filler, and didn't smell way off. It's always hard when you don't have a "control" specimen to compare the suspect cigars to.

The pre-light taste of the bullshit was a little bitter, so I just told him Thanks but No Thanks!

 

[Matt R]

Screw the fake cigars...where are the (nude) beach pictures......??????.....

 

[Gonz]

Screw the fake cigars...where are the (nude) beach pictures......??????.....

The best I could do for you would be my 3 year old in a diaper on the beach, is that OK?

 

[wanlail]

Screw the fake cigars...where are the (nude) beach pictures......??????.....

The best I could do for you would be my 3 year old in a diaper on the beach, is that OK?