Newbie Pass 101

[Puros Locos]

Yeah, that means I'm "on deck"! :thumbs:

Well I guess that means I'm "in the hole"...ok that sounds bad, but its true. Sorry I haven't been able to participate more, but I have been checking in regularly. You guys have been doing a great job and its been fun following the discussions.

 

[ilikefishes]

Puros, it is all good.

I would like to let everyone know that I won't probably be able to get to my P/T's until this weekend. I have a busy ass week with renewing contracts, meetings and rest of minutia of my life. I will do my best to get it out by Friday, but no promises made.

 

[MrAnderson41]

I don't think it really has to do with if Jake (or any pass host) really wants a certain stick or not, it has more to do with if you want a HTF cigar and you are going to put in a regular production cigar, then you (as the pass participant) need to make sure that you make up for the rarity with some additional cost. Of course the pass host will always have final say as to if they think the price difference makes up for the rarity of the cigar.

I think what you're saying here is just a different way of what I stated about each P/T can be seen as a trade with the pass host. Meaning the rarity for rarity, price for price, may not be hard and fast rules but they are very good guidelines. This is ultimately because each P/T is up to the host.

From what I have read in past passes, the rules we are following are pretty standard. I think the reason that each P/T is considered on it's own is because of potential over-puts.

If a P/T is treated as a "bundle deal" then you can essentially put in one really expensive stick and a few "yard-gars" to make the P/T "bundle" equal out. Then you would probably get say 3 premium sticks for the price of one super premium stick and 2 yard-gars.

I understand what you're saying here but I would think if the trade was that far out of whack then the pass host wouldn't accept it unless he really really wanted that super premium stick. I don't think that I would want to be involved in the hypothetical pass where there are a few super premiums and a bunch of dog rockets. It seems this rule protects the fellow pass participants more than anything and ensures they've got some sort of a selection to choose from. I'm not sure how likely a situation like that would be to occur, which I guess is kind of why I asked the question.

 

[2K6TBSS]

I think what you're saying here is just a different way of what I stated about each P/T can be seen as a trade with the pass host. Meaning the rarity for rarity, price for price, may not be hard and fast rules but they are very good guidelines. This is ultimately because each P/T is up to the host.

Yeah, I guess you are right. Just a different way of saying the same thing.

I understand what you're saying here but I would think if the trade was that far out of whack then the pass host wouldn't accept it unless he really really wanted that super premium stick. I don't think that I would want to be involved in the hypothetical pass where there are a few super premiums and a bunch of dog rockets. It seems this rule protects the fellow pass participants more than anything and ensures they've got some sort of a selection to choose from. I'm not sure how likely a situation like that would be to occur, which I guess is kind of why I asked the question.

Obviously that example was something that no BOTL here would ever try to pass, just trying to show a worst case type thing. I wouldn't want to be anywhere near a pass if it was being run like that either.

I know that there was an issue in a recent pass that involved a member not posting his P/Ts and just sending the pass to the next particiant after making his non-publicized P/Ts. Come to find out he took 4 or 5 more premium sticks and left (I think) 7 lesser sticks, and to make things worse he put multiples of a few different sticks in the pass. The sticks he left weren't "dog rockets", but they weren't up to par with the takes. His argument was that his combined puts added up to more value than his takes, so he didn't see an issue with it. Eventually the participant sent the sticks back to the member that currently had the pass, and his lesser sticks were returned to him.

Also, just a really good way to ensure that the participants at the end of the pass are still left with some good choices, and not just "dog rockets".

 

[MrAnderson41]

Obviously that example was something that no BOTL here would ever try to pass, just trying to show a worst case type thing. I wouldn't want to be anywhere near a pass if it was being run like that either.

The way I see things is the fact that nobody would want to participate in a pass such as that would be deterrent enough for the pass host to veto a P/T such as that but what if the P/T's weren't as bad as those you'd described? I guess I'm not sure this discussion entirely belongs in this pass since it's all hypothetical and doesn't apply to our pass since we are to judge each P/T on it's own individual merits.

I know that there was an issue in a recent pass that involved a member not posting his P/Ts and just sending the pass to the next particiant after making his non-publicized P/Ts. Come to find out he took 4 or 5 more premium sticks and left (I think) 7 lesser sticks, and to make things worse he put multiples of a few different sticks in the pass. The sticks he left weren't "dog rockets", but they weren't up to par with the takes. His argument was that his combined puts added up to more value than his takes, so he didn't see an issue with it. Eventually the participant sent the sticks back to the member that currently had the pass, and his lesser sticks were returned to him.

I followed that pass as well and what you're describing is a different issue entirely IMHO from each P/T being based on it's own merits. It was actually an issue with the participant not treating the pass like a trade with the host. I mean, you can't make a trade with someone without discussing it with them first.

Also, just a really good way to ensure that the participants at the end of the pass are still left with some good choices, and not just "dog rockets".

I agree with you 100%, but I would think, just like everything, there could be exceptions to the rule if the host deemed it fit. I was just wondering if there were any reasons why that's not the case, with this pass or most passes for that matter, that I hadn't considered and you've provided me at least.

 

[BigJake6904]

I like the dialogue, so I'll let you guys continue the discussion. I will say however...I've been in and hosted quite a few passes over the last 4 years. Every single one has each P/T being judged on it's own merit. The example with the lost city lancero listed before was a fantastic one....showing exactly why we do it this way.

I don't really agree with the perception of "trading with the pass host." I know as a host I certainly don't see it that way...and I ABSOLUTELY don't judge P/T's based off of my own desires. Let's be honest...there isn't a lot I haven't tried at some point. The purpose of a pass is to share the wealth. As a rule of thumb, you NEVER leave something worse than you found it. If you have that mentality, even approaching passes, maybe this isn't the right place for that individual. Self-admittedly, I'm a terrible offender at over-puts when I participate in a pass. Often times I want to take what I have my eyes on and don't spend the time on pricing, etc. So don't take from this pass that over-puts are a bad thing...they are a very commonly accepted practice, even though we want to keep it reasonable given the price points in a newbie pass.

 

[2K6TBSS]

The way I see things is the fact that nobody would want to participate in a pass such as that would be deterrent enough for the pass host to veto a P/T such as that but what if the P/T's weren't as bad as those you'd described? I guess I'm not sure this discussion entirely belongs in this pass since it's all hypothetical and doesn't apply to our pass since we are to judge each P/T on it's own individual merits.

IMO any "under-put" more than $0.25 would be considered a no-go. That isn't to say that you can't put a lesser priced stick and still walk away from the pass with a high quality selection, take for example you want to take a MFLB Toro (approx. 10.14) and put a Padron PAM (approx. 8.67). Both are great sticks, but with the almost $1.50 under-put people might think you are trying to profit from the pass, however either stick would leave the pass with quality sticks to choose from.

If the prices were closer in terms of MSRP, then it MIGHT be a different story. From what I have seen in past passes though, it still wouldn't fly.

I followed that pass as well and what you're describing is a different issue entirely IMHO from each P/T being based on it's own merits. It was actually an issue with the participant not treating the pass like
a trade with the host. I mean, you can't make a trade with someone without discussing it with them first.

You are right on the no communication thing. IMO the participant dropped the ball on a few aspects of pass etiquette. I was just using his quantity instead of quality as an example why a bundling the P/Ts together might be a bad idea.

I agree with you 100%, but I would think, just like everything, there could be exceptions to the rule if the host deemed it fit. I was just wondering if there were any reasons why that's not the case, with this pass or most passes for that matter, that I hadn't considered and you've provided me at least.

I am sure there could be exceptions, but I have no idea.



Edit - Spelling

 

[Joebunaga]

ETA - Do any of you guys have any information about #14 - Habanos Puros Seleccion Suprema Torpedo? I haven't been able to find a damn thing about it...

It's a reasonably priced stick (like $6-$7ish I think). You'll pry have to dig to find the actual MSRP (I'm guesstimating)...but it is a decent stick worth a try.

I was eyeballing this one as well. US prices for robusto and petite corona here:
http://www.thehavanaclub.com/store/US-Habanos-Puros-Seleccion-Suprema.html

EU price on robusto and esplendido here:
http://krolestwotytoniu.pl/Produkt/Habanos+Seleccion+Suprema+Purosani+Esplendidos/EN/pa/5376/keep/0/Category/92//lang/EN#/Szukaj/Produkt/Habanos+Puros/Category/311-juliasep-julia_body-juliasep-

That's all I could find and was going to wager a guess at $6-6.50 for a cost since neither price is from a common vendor.

 

[ilikefishes]

Argh, my wife is on a cleaning kick. She threw my worksheet (chicken scratch) in the recycling. I have to re-work everything. Looks like I will be up later than I thought tonight. Oh well, can't wait to see the pass.

 

[2K6TBSS]

ETA - Do any of you guys have any information about #14 - Habanos Puros Seleccion Suprema Torpedo? I haven't been able to find a damn thing about it...

It's a reasonably priced stick (like $6-$7ish I think). You'll pry have to dig to find the actual MSRP (I'm guesstimating)...but it is a decent stick worth a try.

I was eyeballing this one as well. US prices for robusto and petite corona here:
http://www.thehavana...on-Suprema.html

EU price on robusto and esplendido here:
http://krolestwotyto..._body-juliasep-

That's all I could find and was going to wager a guess at $6-6.50 for a cost since neither price is from a common vendor.

All I could find was the robusto and petite corona also. I was thinking the 6-6.50 range was going to be a good starting point for a trade. That is if fishes doesn't take it from me...

 

[Joebunaga]

Many Thanks Gavin! I received one helluva package today!
[sharedmedia=gallery:images:9334]

Thanks to my fellow newbs and Jake for making this pass great!

 

[2K6TBSS]

I have no permission to view the pic. I think maybe you didn't set the permissions of the gallery to public...


ETA - Jake, I just wanted to say THANKS again for hosting this pass. I have learned a lot from it and have really enjoyed the opportunity to interact with some of the newer (like myself) BOTLs of this community.

I look forward to having the opportunity to participate in future passes, and know that I will not make a total idiot of myself.

 

[Joebunaga]

Ooops, done. Should be viewable now.

 

[MrAnderson41]

I guess I don't really have much to add to the conversation other than I guess this pass thing certainly isn't as clear cut as I keep trying to make it. I guess I should know that by now. In mine line of work things are very rule based so I guess that's starting to rub off on me and sometimes it gets frustrating when I think I understand what goes into the decision on a good P/T and a particular P/T turns out differently than what I expected.

 

[Thumper68]

Pass is enroute to ilikefishes. Post office says that it should be there Thursday.

DC # 0311 0240 0002 2757 7537

 

[broblues]

Many Thanks Gavin! I received one helluva package today!


Thanks to my fellow newbs and Jake for making this pass great!

I particularly like the one with the "R" on it. :whistling:

 

[ilikefishes]

OK, So I stayed home from work today and was able to get some stuff done. Fricken' sinus headaches be damned.

Here is what I propose for my put/takes:

Take-Tat Black Jar estimated at $13.00 and rare
Put-Tat Face bought at $13.00 and rare

Take-Anejo #46 found to be $8.25 on Vitola's
Put-MF Le Bejou 1922 from PUFF. These were purchased at a discount when he found out that they jipped him. So the price I paid is not the retail price. If someone has a problem with this particular put/take, I will pull it.

Take-Anejo #55 found to be $10.75 on Vitola's
Put-TAA '11 cost of $10.80

Take-Ave Maria found it to be $5.20 when purchased in a box from CI
Put-Gran Habano Corojo #5 Czar, found two sources that carry this cigar at Holt's for $5.50 a piece in a box and at Serious for $4.85 a piece in a box. So do I split the difference and call it and it comes out to $5.18

Let me know what you all think. I wanted to try the Ave Maria and can probably find a closer match if need be. Thanks Jake for putting this all together. I can't wait to see the package in all its GLORY tomorrow. I will take pictures and post them.

You guys are the best.

Regards,

Kendall

 

[Joebunaga]

I'm not that familiar on the Le Bijou's, do they fit the rarity factor(limited release) of the Anejo?

 

[2K6TBSS]

Take-Tat Black Jar estimated at $13.00 and rare
Put-Tat Face bought at $13.00 and rare

Take-Anejo #46 found to be $8.25 on Vitola's
Put-MF Le Bejou 1922 from PUFF. These were purchased at a discount when he found out that they jipped him. So the price I paid is not the retail price. If someone has a problem with this particular put/take, I will pull it.

Take-Anejo #55 found to be $10.75 on Vitola's
Put-TAA '11 cost of $10.80

Take-Ave Maria found it to be $5.20 when purchased in a box from CI
Put-Gran Habano Corojo #5 Czar, found two sources that carry this cigar at Holt's for $5.50 a piece in a box and at Serious for $4.85 a piece in a box. So do I split the difference and call it and it comes out to $5.18

I believe Thumper took the Anejo 46, or at least that's what my notes show.

From what I have seen the TAA stick has an MSRP of $10.00

I'm not that familiar on the Le Bijou's, do they fit the rarity factor(limited release) of the Anejo?

The Puff edition was a special micro blend that was "only available" through one of the retailers here. Supposedly only 300 boxes were produced.


ETA - I'm guessing the TAA stick you are talking about is the Tat? From what I remember I think Ashton and La Aroma De Cuba also had TAA boxes.

But, the first and last look good.

 

[Puros Locos]

Take-Anejo #46 found to be $8.25 on Vitola's
Put-MF Le Bejou 1922 from PUFF. These were purchased at a discount when he found out that they jipped him. So the price I paid is not the retail price. If someone has a problem with this particular put/take, I will pull it.

The problem with this P/T IMO is this particular MFLB from Puff is a "second release." The initial release was 300 boxes. Then Al released an additional 100 boxes of the same blend, but there are actually an unknown quantity available at another vendor. While no doubt these are still limited, they can be had for $172 for a box of 23 ($7.48/ea). So even if the rarity matches up, I don't think the price does. Again JMHO.