Vikings 2008

[LilBastage]

I believe an injury at that point would have sealed Childress' fate.

I don't like the rumblings I've heard about Donovan McNabb coming to MN. What could the Vikings trade? Draft picks? I don't think they'll let him go for the draft picks the Vikings are likely to have. They can't give up any of their roster, there's not enough depth there. I realize he's not a free agent, but the way McNabb's contract is structured he'll count $10 million against the cap next year. If they trade him or cut him the hit will only be about $1 million. I think he's done anyway, but what do I know?

I think it may be smarter to make a run at Cassel. He's a bit of a gamble, but the upside looks like it could be worth the risk.

Whatever they do, they NEED to address the QB situation.

Do you mean McNabb is done in Philly or done as in "washed up"?

If its the latter I'd have to disagree. As far as trading for him they can have Sharper and a couple of draft picks. :laugh:

I meant done in Philly. Looking back at it, my wording was awkward.

I listen to a Philly sports talk most mornings through ITunes radio and to hear them talk about Andy Reid and McNabb, you would think they publicly behead puppies for a living. A lot of their callers are down on them as well so depending on how the Eagles end the season, it wouldn't surprise me if McNabb leaves Philly. I still think he's got some good years left in him, especially his arm. His legs aren't what they used to be but he is still a great QB IMO. But the Vikes have a history of bringing in supposedly washed up QBs and getting a couple of years out of them. I honestly can't recall the last QB that they drafted, groomed and then got more than a couple of years out of though. With AP as a young talent, I would think grooming a young QB to grow with him would be advantageous. Then again, I don't run an NFL team for a reason.

I think bringing in someone young to groom is a great strategy most of the time, but right now the Vikings are on the cusp of being a really good team. Their window of time is not great. Peterson will be around for awhile, but they're going to have a lot of young guys looking for bigger contracts in the next couple of years. They need an established, known entity in the QB position immediately. McNabb gives them that. I also think that Cassel can give them that. That's based solely on the few games of NE's I've watched this year and I'm perfectly willing to admit that I could be wrong about his talent level.

Had Tarvaris Jackson been the QB they thought he was going to be they would be sitting pretty. As it is, they've wasted a lot of time with that experiment that they can't get back. They have to address depth with the draft, so it will be hard to spend a top pick on a QB.

They're in a bit of a pickle to get to the next level. I think Wilf is willing to spend the money if he needs to, the trick is finding the available talent.

The coaching situation must also be addressed, but that's a whole other discussion.

And like you, Moe, there's a reason I don't run NFL teams for a living. I may be talking completely outta my arse here.

 

[Unclebillybonz]

Their window of time is not great. Peterson will be around for awhile, but they're going to have a lot of young guys looking for bigger contracts in the next couple of years.

Who is that? Looking at the Vikings roster the core of the team is already signed long term.

Hutchinson (4 more yrs), McKinnie(4 yrs) and Hererra(4 more yrs) are all signed to multi yr deals yet. That leaves a C (Birk can still be resigned and I think they'll try and get a modest deal done in the off season) or Sullivan who is already on the roster. And RT which I would hope is a top priority in this yrs draft.

Peterson signed a 6 yr deal, but I'm not sure if he has voidable yrs which I imagine he would.

Chester is only signed through 09

Shiancoe has 3 yrs left on his deal after this season.

Berrian is here for 6 seasons.

Rice is in year 2 of a 4 yr deal

Kevin Williams (through 2013), Jared Allen(through 2013) have multi yrs left. Phat Pat will finish his career in Minny. LE is still a question mark but Edwards is singed through 2009.

EJ Henderson was just resigned to an extension through 2011 so he is here for awhile.

Greenway is signed through 2010

Leber is signed through 2010

Winfield's contract is up after the 09 season but he is not spring chicken anymore either.

Griffin is up after next yr as well but should not break the bank to sign him if they want.

Madieu Williams is signed through the 2013 season

Tyrell Johnson is a rookie so we have him for 3 more seasons.

Considering how good the Vikings have been at managing the salary cap, I think we are in really good shape for being contenders for yrs to come. Of course that all hinges on finding a QB.

I look for a guy like Winfield to get an extension that locks him up for the rest of his career in the off season. Same with Birk, unless of course he wants to break the bank.

We need some depth at CB but thats what the draft is for.

 

[LilBastage]

Looks like I missed some info somewhere. :laugh:

Depth must be addressed which is going to put a dent in the cap. How many games would have gone the other way with just a few key injuries? Or suspensions? We could be looking at a sub .500 team had a few things gone just a little bit differently.

They've been very good at managing the cap while not addressing their most dire need. What is the situation going to look like once they sign a good QB? They can't just rest on the current roster for the next 4 years, there will be a need for changes.

So what do they need to do at QB? Bring in a veteran or try to groom a young QB? Can they afford a first round draft pick on a QB? Who do they trade if there's no FA out there (and there isn't a decent one other than Cassel)? What about the center and right tackle positions? Birk has been a great player, but he's getting older and they need to find his backup (future replacement) soon.

What about the coaching situation? Bring in someone new and flip the whole thing on it's head? How many true head coaches are out there? Cowher is out there, but would he be a good fit? Who can take a team that's almost there and take them to the next level without tearing it down? Do they do what Indy did and bring in someone to set the whole thing right on a 4-5 year plan? I think they're closer than that, but I've been wrong before.

This is a team that can be great, but the next two years are pivotal.

 

[Unclebillybonz]

Looks like I missed some info somewhere. :laugh:

Depth must be addressed which is going to put a dent in the cap. How many games would have gone the other way with just a few key injuries? Or suspensions? We could be looking at a sub .500 team had a few things gone just a little bit differently. That could be said about every team in the league. I think we are fairly deep at OL. While not stellar Hicks has done a good job subing at LT and RT. We have some young guys that look promising. Sullivan might be heir apparent at center and Radovich could be a very nice swing guy at multiple positions. Our depth at Lber is young, CB is my biggest worry. Losing Winfield would really hurt with our current depth. McCauley needs to step up and be the player I thought we were getting when he was drafted. DE is slim but we might get Udeze back next yr, Jayme Mitchell showed some promise before he got hurt as well and there is still Brian Robison.

They've been very good at managing the cap while not addressing their most dire need. What is the situation going to look like once they sign a good QB? They can't just rest on the current roster for the next 4 years, there will be a need for changes. I agree, but again the Vikings are masters at comming up with cap space evey year despite carrying some huge long term contracts.

So what do they need to do at QB? Bring in a veteran or try to groom a young QB? Can they afford a first round draft pick on a QB? Who do they trade if there's no FA out there (and there isn't a decent one other than Cassel)? What about the center and right tackle positions? Birk has been a great player, but he's getting older and they need to find his backup (future replacement) soon. The speculation that I've been seeing is the Pats will most likely franchise Cassel to cover their bets unitl Brady can come back 100% so he most likely won't be an option for us this yr. That leaves guys like Derek Anderson (Quinn has already been named next yrs starter in Cleveland.) or someone like Sage Rosenfels, J.P. Losman, or maybe McNabb. And of course there is Tarvaris Jackson and J.D. Booty who are still on the roster. Idealy I would want McNabb but can we get him without giving up a kings ransom in draft picks?

What about the coaching situation? Bring in someone new and flip the whole thing on it's head? How many true head coaches are out there? Cowher is out there, but would he be a good fit? Who can take a team that's almost there and take them to the next level without tearing it down? Do they do what Indy did and bring in someone to set the whole thing right on a 4-5 year plan? I think they're closer than that, but I've been wrong before. Everything Zygi Wilf says points to him sticking with Chilly another year and while I am not a big Chilly fan if he gets us to the playoffs with Gus running the show, he deserves another yr. All bets are off of course if a new guy is brought in, because that means new system, new rules and you never know how the players will react to that.This is a team that can be great, but the next two years are pivotal.

 

[LilBastage]

You didn't mention Grossman in your list of QBs. :laugh:

Pickings are definitely slim at QB. I really wouldn't call the guys you mentioned (other than McNabb) viable solutions. I think Cassel would work out, but that's just a gut feeling I have. I would be surprised if NE franchises him. The way they've gotten by for the last several years gives every indication that they'd let him go if he asked for too much money. How much is too much is likely the key (when isn't it? ). Derek Anderson has a pretty large price tag for his talent level (especially now that he's torn the MCL). I'm not sure I would try to bring him in under his current terms.

The situation with trading for McNabb is what prompted my whole thinking in this discussion. It's going to be VERY difficult to get him without sacrificing some much needed draft picks. However, if they're going to keep Childress he and McNabb have a relationship. Philly was pretty good during the years they were both there. That has a lot to do with Andy Reid, but their working relationship had to have a big impact.

You mentioned their mastery at the cap while carrying large contracts. I know how you see the defensive situation, but how do you think the offensive depth chart is looking? I've not looked too far into it, but I can tell from my favorite team's experience (Indy) that depth in the O-Line is VERY important to the performance of the offense. If the Vikings were to lose 2 lineman for any amount of time, how competent are their backups?

I hope they can get something figured out. I have to watch them every week, I'd rather they be good.

 

[Unclebillybonz]

Well, as far as the Oline goes we have already had to see how our depth is.

Mckinnie was suspended for the 1st four games this season and Hicks played pretty well in his absence.

Hicks has also filled in for Ryan Cook and was an immediate upgrade IMO. Unfortuantely he is now banged up and Cook was back in starting vs the Bears.

Losing two starters for an extended period of time would be devestating as it would for most teams. Oline is all about cohesiveness and when you lose guys you lose that familiarity. (Jax is a great example).

With that said I think the team is pretty high on Drew Radovich and John Sullivan. Sullivan (in the teams eye) could very easily be the starting center next year. Radovich is being touted as a guy who can play multiple positions ala Artis Hicks. Marcus Johnson has been a complete bust so I don't think he'll be back next season. Depending on where the Vikings pick and who is available, I would hope they target a RT early in the draft.

Back to the QB's, I have not totally given up on Tarvaris Jackson. I think he was mishandled by the team from the start. He needed to sit on the bench and watch the last two years! The kid is as athletic as they come and can make every throw, he needs to learn the game and improve his mechanics to be a consistent QB. I would rather have some competition brought in but we might have no other choice if someone like McNabb or Cassel can't be gotten.

 

[LilBastage]

I wonder how the injunction will go? Losing the heart of the d-line for the rest of the regular season is likely a death blow.

 

[Unclebillybonz]

I wonder how the injunction will go? Losing the heart of the d-line for the rest of the regular season is likely a death blow.

Not necessarily. Losing the 'Wall' hurts no doubt, but them being out doesn't make Green Bays putrid defense any better. Chicago's wr's and QB don't automatically improve because the Vikings have some players suspended.

Lets not pretend that the Packers and Bears are ahead in the standings just yet. They still have to win their games too you know.

 

[LilBastage]

I wonder how the injunction will go? Losing the heart of the d-line for the rest of the regular season is likely a death blow.

Not necessarily. Losing the 'Wall' hurts no doubt, but them being out doesn't make Green Bays putrid defense any better. Chicago's wr's and QB don't automatically improve because the Vikings have some players suspended.

Lets not pretend that the Packers and Bears are ahead in the standings just yet. They still have to win their games too you know.

True, but the Vikings schedule is pretty darn tough. Detroit shouldn't be a problem, but Arizona is pretty good and Atlanta and the Giants may run all over the Vikings without the interior intact.

Green Bay has a pretty favorable schedule. If they can return to where they were in the first half of the season, they could sneak in there. Chicago is such a clustermess who knows how they're going to do.

I did say "likely". They can still pull it off, but it just got quite a bit tougher. I think it will all depend on how the rest of the defense reacts. If they can handle it like professionals, they could be fine. If they let it get in their heads they may only win one more game.

It does add some interest to the end of the season, at least.

 

[crluap]

The National Football League filed notice today of its intent to try to move the legal action involving Vikings defensive tackles Kevin and Pat Williams to federal court.

MPLS Star Tribune :0

 

[Unclebillybonz]

The National Football League filed notice today of its intent to try to move the legal action involving Vikings defensive tackles Kevin and Pat Williams to federal court.

MPLS Star Tribune :0

Thats good news because the judge they will most likely get is one who is known for being sympathetic to the players union.

 

[crluap]

Follow up.


The National Football League successfully moved the legal action involving Vikings defensive tackles Kevin and Pat Williams to federal court today.

 

[crluap]

U.S. District Court Judge Paul Magnuson will rule on two lawsuits in the case. The outcome will determine whether Vikings defensive tackles Pat and Kevin Williams will be able to play in Sunday's game.

 

[MoeCizlak]

Magnuson huh? That's a nice Nordic/Minnesotan name, the Williams boys will be just fine. :laugh:

 

[crluap]

U.S. District Court Judge Paul Magnuson is blocking the NFL from suspending the five players for violating league's anti-doping policy. He said he's going to take some time before he issues an order on the broader underlying issues of jurisdiction and the NFL's drug testing procedures. :laugh:

 

[LilBastage]

I've completely lost interest in this whole thing. It's a sham of a sham from all angles. I'm about to give up on the NFL this year...

 

[crluap]

I've completely lost interest in this whole thing. It's a sham of a sham from all angles. I'm about to give up on the NFL this year...

It depends on whose ox is being gored. :whistling:

I tend to side with the unions.

The NFL has to much power IMO over the lives of these individuals. The testing has always been flawed and the fact that they are not willing to instruct players as to what they can and can not take seems like a crock of sh*t.

Sure they want the players to be responsible for unlabeled over the counter products because they don't want to be.
Sure having the league investigate these products for themselves is a ton of work, but the have many more resources than do the players.
Shifting the responsibility to the league only makes sense IMO.

I think the judge made the right call on this one.

 

[LilBastage]

I'm just sick of all this crap ending up in courts. The union (players) agreed to the CBA which outlines the requirements for the both parties. If there's an issue that needs to be addressed, take it up in the next round of negotiations. Changing the rules in the middle of the game is for children.

And just to be clear, I blame the league in this as much as the players.

 

[Unclebillybonz]

Tarvaris Jackson puts up 4 TD's on the Cardinals!

:thumbs:

 

[crluap]

Looks like the Vikes are playing their best ball in december!

Gus who? :laugh: