A fake Cohiba exposed

[lbrief]

Well, let's debate the issue at hand then. .

OK

1) Very often logos are created by taking an existing typeface, turning it into outlines, and manipulating it, to produce a unique logo that *can't* be duplicated just by typing some text out in Helvetica (and cited examples where this was done). I've no evidence it was done in this case, other than the fact that I've seen it done on many, many corporate and brand logos -- but you also have no proof that it wasn't done. However, let's say that's not the case here...

OK

2) Most DTP programs warn you if you open then on a machine that doesn't have the fonts that document requires; we'd have to assume people ignored these warnings or were using positively ancient programs that didn't offer such features (circa 1988)

Sometimes a warning, but not always. Don't take my word for it, I linked to an article in my above post.

3) Most DTP programs also let you embed fonts into the document you're printing, which is specifically done to avoid situations like this. You stated first that I had the wrong terminology, and then that this technology had "issues" and then that it could be done, but isn't often done. In my experience, none of this is the case. Yes, embedding fonts makes the file size large -- but it ensures that when you print it, you'll get exactly what you're expecting to get. As such, the file size for a final pre-press run is inconsequential to the cost of getting it right. As I'm sure we all know, setup and labor costs are a large chunk of the battle when it comes to printing. We'd have to assume whomever did the bands either didn't know or didn't care about this ability.

Depends on the designer's relationship with the printer. But, typically if both are experienced and have worked together previously, then it's native app and non-embed all the way.

4) We'd also have to assume that the machines being printed from and the press being printed to didn't have the proper typeface installed. I find this absurd; for something as major as the bands for prestigious cigar brands in Cuba. It'd be like the printer Coke uses not having the proper color to put on the cans.

Of course it's absurd, but it is possible, that's all I ever said.

5) We'd have to assume that even if all this happened somehow, even if the fonts were not present, people didn't bother embedding them, they weren't on the printer, they ignored the warnings from the DTP programs, and printed them anyway, that they looked at the proofs and didn't notice the font was wrong. Yes, the difference can be subtle, but this is akin to saying that Coke would end up printing a series of cans that used the wrong typeface on them. Given the importance of branding, the known existence of fakes, I find it very hard to believe that something like this could pass through.

Of course it's hard to believe, but it is possible, that's all I ever said.

6) Even if someone DID look at the proof, and ineptly say "Looks good, print it!" we'd have to assume that no one at SA would notice that their new batch of bands weren't quite right. Or if they did notice, they'd have to say "Screw it, use 'em anyway".

Of course we would have to make that assumption, that's what I said in my original post.

The number of things that would have to either go wrong or be done in such an incredibly amateurish fashion in order for this to be caused by "font substitution" are simply mind-boggling. Certain things just are not done. If you as a printer screw up on the typeface of an important brand like Cohiba is to SA, you're not just fired, in Cuba, you're probably thrown in jail. It doesn't make sense.

No argument. All I said is it is possible to argue that font substitution could occur. I suggested your best argument for proving the band was bogus was to examine the graphics. It is your strongest argument. The Font issue is super strong too, but it can be weakened by smart asses such as myself.

 

[Matt R]

If you as a printer screw up on the typeface of an important brand like Cohiba is to SA, you're not just fired, in Cuba, you're probably thrown in jail.

Actually, it probably gets over-looked and the bands are put on the cigars anyway. Unless of course they write CHOIBA instead of COHIBA.

 

[Tony Bones]

You are countering my points with highly sophisticated and very thoughtful explanations but in essence you just keep saying “No you are wrong”. There is nothing wrong with your explanations but they are not the norm in the real world.

And you you'd never have made it this far in this pissing contest in the real world.

:sign:

 

[lbrief]

And you you'd never have made it this far in this pissing contest in the real world.

:sign:

I'm not 100% sure what you mean. But since I don't want to pick another fight (and should have never picked the present one ).

OK :thumbs:

 

[gawntrail]

And you you'd never have made it this far in this pissing contest in the real world.

:sign:

I'm not 100% sure what you mean. But since I don't want to pick another fight (and should have never picked the present one ).

OK :thumbs:

I'm thinking he's referring to the "loudest mouth gets filled with knuckles first" philosophy.

My dad laid out the rules to street fighting when I came home bloody one time. I was 8 and a loud mouthed kid took my baseball bat at the park. Dad told me, "Always take out the leader and/or the biggest mouth first......Make sure there's lots of blood, and lots of pain....pick up anything within your reach to end it as painfully and quickly as possible......Even if others start to work on you, keep on kickin' the **** out of him. You may get your ass whipped, but you've got to prove the point. 'Cause if you don't, they will always pick on you"

Maybe, Maybe Not. But, I'll tell you this...if we were in a bar......bottles, stools, tables, midgets, and jukeboxes would already be flyin'.

M. Gipson

 

[vewyphishy]

[I'm thinking he's referring to the "loudest mouth gets filled with knuckles first" philosophy.

My dad laid out the rules to street fighting when I came home bloody one time. I was 8 and a loud mouthed kid took my baseball bat at the park. Dad told me, "Always take out the leader and/or the biggest mouth first......Make sure there's lots of blood, and lots of pain....pick up anything within your reach to end it as painfully and quickly as possible......Even if others start to work on you, keep on kickin' the **** out of him. You may get your ass whipped, but you've got to prove the point. 'Cause if you don't, they will always pick on you"

Maybe, Maybe Not. But, I'll tell you this...if we were in a bar......bottles, stools, tables, midgets, and jukeboxes would already be flyin'.

M. Gipson

While your dad was preaching a very viable point... he seems to have gone about it in a very hostile manner.

 

[gawntrail]

While your dad was preaching a very viable point... he seems to have gone about it in a very hostile manner.

Yeah, Dad is mean son of a bitch. He's 56, and could still take me 2 out of 3.

I think the military calls it 'achieving tactical superiority'. Along the lines of turning into an ambush and pressing it until it is broken up.

I haven't been in a fight since I was 26.

A guy bumped into my 1 year old, knocking him onto the floor at the mall. As I picked my son up off of the floor, I told the guy to be more careful about how he walked around little kids. He told me to go **** myself.............I let him know that was no way to apologize for knocking my son down.........and just as the next '**** you' came out of his mouth, I was on him like stink on ****. It took two rent a cops and 4 other guys to pull me off of that asshole. I think he hit me a couple of times, but his face was pretty intimate with the fountain steps next to us, he couldn't open his eyes. My wife was pissed. Haven't fought since then.

I try to avoid situations as much as possible. But, if the need arises........ sometimes you gotta do, what you gotta do.

M. Gipson

 

[Tony Bones]

While your dad was preaching a very viable point... he seems to have gone about it in a very hostile manner.

Yeah, Dad is mean son of a bitch. He's 56, and could still take me 2 out of 3.

I think the military calls it 'achieving tactical superiority'. Along the lines of turning into an ambush and pressing it until it is broken up.

I haven't been in a fight since I was 26.

A guy bumped into my 1 year old, knocking him onto the floor at the mall. As I picked my son up off of the floor, I told the guy to be more careful about how he walked around little kids. He told me to go **** myself.............I let him know that was no way to apologize for knocking my son down.........and just as the next '**** you' came out of his mouth, I was on him like stink on ****. It took two rent a cops and 4 other guys to pull me off of that asshole. I think he hit me a couple of times, but his face was pretty intimate with the fountain steps next to us, he couldn't open his eyes. My wife was pissed. Haven't fought since then.

I try to avoid situations as much as possible. But, if the need arises........ sometimes you gotta do, what you gotta do.

M. Gipson

I like the way you think

Some folks would argue that you made the "wrong" decision by beating that guy's ass. Not me. I avoid violence these days because I dealt w/ (and dealt out) so much of it back when.

But man, if someone ever crossed my little, innocent son's path I'd rip one of their eyes out and eat it. Kudos to you for actually waiting for him to say F*ck you before pummeling his worthless ass. Same goes for giving my wife a hard time. Don't do it.

Other than those two scenarios, I'm a big teddy bear.

A little secret though: I LIKE fighting...a lot. I think it's fun

Thought I'd change the subject here a bit to take the emphasis off the text debate

 

[moki]

Alright, let's put this drama to rest; lbrief and I talked in private, and we both misinterpreted each other a bit. It's all good. And the damn cigars are as fake as they get. Tasted like really bad Dominican tobacco.

Anyway, I talked to the guy... He got a box of "1996 Cohiba Robustos" from the same source... and they have the new-style gold bands on them... hehe... and they taste like ass too.

He knows something is wrong...

 

[Tony Bones]

Alright, let's put this drama to rest; lbrief and I talked in private, and we both misinterpreted each other a bit. It's all good. And the damn cigars are as fake as they get. Tasted like really bad Dominican tobacco.

Anyway, I talked to the guy... He got a box of "1996 Cohiba Robustos" from the same source... and they have the new-style gold bands on them... hehe... and they taste like ass too.

He knows something is wrong...

**** man! There's a lot of people I'm going to have to send money back to now.

At 5:1 we could have really worked something out if you'd have thrown the fight.

What's a guy got to do to make a living around this board? Yeesh.

 

[moki]

What's a guy got to do to make a living around this board? Yeesh.

Tony, get off of your knees, please.