A newbie question for you experts

Jonesy

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I've been wondering this for a while so I've decided to put it to our experts. Everyone talks about ISOM's going through their "sick period", some longer than others. I have a few Taboada's and have been told they have a substantially longer sick period than other ISOM's. What creates the sick period in ISOM's that you don't see in NC's? It seems as if most all NC's are ready to go out of the box and are just as good 3 months into the box as they are a year into it.I know age lets the tobacco ferment but why such a profound difference in an Aged Cohiba compared to an aged Padron? I've had young and old of both and the profile in the Cohiba changes a good bit IMO but I've had a 7 year old Padron '26 #2 maduro that had just a touch more of a mellow profile than a new one.

BTW, I'm already awaiting a few of you to be smartasses and tell me "search is your friend newb" :laugh: I want current info and not opinions that are 3 or 4 years old.
 
WTF????? Nobody wants to help a stoopid noob with his question? :laugh:
 
Who are you?






















:sign:

Wish I could help, but I have noooo idea. Actually a very good question that I wouldn't mind knowing the answer to as well.
 
Well, I am not the expert but I think the answer is that domestic manufacturers age their product (sometimes years) before it ever hits the shelf; hence passing the sick period whereas products of Cuba are rolled, packaged and shipped right away due to demand and therefore must be aged by the purchaser. Someone correct me if I'm out in left field on this.

edit-dang I need to fix the E key

I also know that the larger the ring gauge, the longer it's in the hospital.
 
Well, I am not the expert but I think the answer is that domestic manufacturers age their product (sometimes years) before it ever hits the shelf; hence passing the sick period whereas products of Cuba are rolled, packaged and shipped right away due to demand and therefore must be aged by the purchaser. Someone correct me if I'm out in left field on this.

I believe this is the reasoning/excuse I have heard too. Most NC cigars and/or the tobacco that makes them is already aged before release. Often times, cigars get to age extra long while the hype builds up, as they wait for the boxes to get made... :sign:
 
Well, I am not the expert but I think the answer is that domestic manufacturers age their product (sometimes years) before it ever hits the shelf; hence passing the sick period whereas products of Cuba are rolled, packaged and shipped right away due to demand and therefore must be aged by the purchaser. Someone correct me if I'm out in left field on this.

I believe this is the reasoning/excuse I have heard too. Most NC cigars and/or the tobacco that makes them is already aged before release. Often times, cigars get to age extra long while the hype builds up, as they wait for the boxes to get made... :sign:
I figured this was the case with the Padron's because I think they age the tobacco for the PAM's for 4 years but wasn't sure about some of the higher production regular lines out there.
 
Damn nOOb....didn't you read where I said I didn't want info that was a couple of years old??


:sign: :laugh:


I'll be straight with you, I totally missed that part of your post :blush: . That said, I can't see it really changing; it's not really a new phenomenon, is it? Correct me if I'm wrong, of course. I haven't even had an ISOM yet, I'm just going off of what I've read :).

edit:
As far as the tobacco being aged, from the thread I found in search it would appear some of the "sick" effect comes from moisture added during the rolling process.
 
Damn nOOb....didn't you read where I said I didn't want info that was a couple of years old??


:sign: :laugh:


I'll be straight with you, I totally missed that part of your post :blush: . That said, I can't see it really changing; it's not really a new phenomenon, is it? Correct me if I'm wrong, of course. I haven't even had an ISOM yet, I'm just going off of what I've read :).
I was just funnin with ya Bro! It won't change over the course of a few years, but I wanted the input of some of the guys active now and not reading material from guys who aren't here anymore.
 
Damn nOOb....didn't you read where I said I didn't want info that was a couple of years old??


:sign: :laugh:


I'll be straight with you, I totally missed that part of your post :blush: . That said, I can't see it really changing; it's not really a new phenomenon, is it? Correct me if I'm wrong, of course. I haven't even had an ISOM yet, I'm just going off of what I've read :).
I was just funnin with ya Bro! It won't change over the course of a few years, but I wanted the input of some of the guys active now and not reading material from guys who aren't here anymore.


It's always good to refresh a topic and bring some more discussion into it, I'll go ahead and pull my newbie self out of the discussion and see if I can't learn something :D.
 
I don't know if there is really a strict disctinction between CC and NC.
I had plenty of NC smokes that folks could say were sick.

But, now we have to define just what sick means.

In fact, someone on the boards here recently commented that they received a fresh rolled NUB, and the roller told him to smoke it now, or, if memory serves me, in 3 mos. Is that a sick period, or a honeymoon?

I have received numerous boxes of Pepin rolled smokes that were unsmokeable. Rough, rife with ammonia. Were they "sick"?

That said, I do know that I have seen several references, over the years, stating that differant manufacturers do roll and age the sticks for lengthy periods of time to make the product consumer ready.
I.e., the act of blending differant aged leaves creates a neccessity to let the cigar "ferment" again.

How true that all is? Beats the hell out of me.
 
Of course you also have to consider it's really personal preference to aging and smoking fresh or aged. So buy a box, smoke some now and smoke some later.
 
I think there is also the varying definitions of 'sick' to consider.

I consider a cigar 'young' when it is harsh or 'unmelded' in flavor. I consider them sick if they are acrid or flat.
 
Very good question #2 and one that nobody has answered conclusively, YET!

I don't buy the fact that all NC manufacturers use aged tobacco thereby avoiding the sick period. Perhaps this was their policy years ago but nowadays, demand, particularly in the US, which
is the main consumer of NC's, has resulted, IMO, in increased production. They don't have time to age in the same way they may have anticipated at the outset. Sure, there are manufacturers who
do use aged leaf but not all.

So, the question for me is the same as yours...LOL I do know that I seldom come across a "sick" NC whereas, I have come across many Cuban that are sick. Case in point is the Taboada stick that you
allude to. I received 3 bundles in June 2006, that were rolled 3 days prior. They were unbelievable for about 2 weeks and then they got really sick. Two years later, they do not taste anything like those
first 2 weeks, will they ever taste that way again?

Brian
 
All things evolve over time. Tobacco certainly falls within that rule of life.

To me, cigars taste great when freshly rolled, because they display all the attributes of the tobacco in their complete form. By that, I mean the tobacco displays all of its "newborn" qualities when "right off the farm". The "sick period", to me, is the cigars going through their "growth spurt", if you will. When they are decomposing the quickest, and their emitting flavors and odors display that rapid aging process the most. I think it is most noticeable during this period because the molecular structure is strongest and has more strands to break off at this point. Once the stronger facets of the tobacco have aged and the cigar has settled into its "mid-life" phase (I just made that term up), the steady decline (change in flavor; to each our own if that is good or bad) is less noticeable in short increments and is measurable in many years versus the sudden rush of its youth.

I think even aged tobacco leaves, when blended together, can go through a "sick period" when rolled into a cigar. I think that might be a matter of the component tobacco leaves reacting with each other. This is just a guess of mine. I also guess that cigars rolled with aged tobacco leaves go through less of a "sick period".

I really don't know why N/C's display this less. I have theories, but they are just ruminations of mine.
 
Brian,

I'll put in my .02 only to tell you that my opinion about this topic has taken a turn just in the last few months....and it's not an answer but a recent thought about this whole thing pertaining to aging and sick cigars....and since you asked. All I'm doing is adding more questions!....sorry.

First, a quick thumb nail of how I was 'raised' towards cigars. My Uncle was my cigar mentor....he smoked only a few different brands and sizes from the time I was AWARE of this phenomenon to the time he passed away at 87yo.....meaning, you find what you like and stick with it. I never heard him talk about a "sick" cigar....he would put a few down quite a few that were only partially smoked, but he never verbalized it's short comings (we always thought the reason he did that was because he drank too much scotch and red wine that day with my father!) When he bought cigars, he smoked them...no long term storage...that was up to the shop he bought from to do, age them until they were ready to smoke (MadMonk, this goes back to the service side of the business from yesteryear...sell no stick before it's time...try one before you buy them)

As a long time smoker, I smoked Monti #2s and RyJ Churchills (tubos) for 20 years....why change?...they did it for me and that's all that matters. When you smoke ONE OR TWO CIGARS OVER AND OVER, YOU CAN TASTE ANY CHANGES IN THAT PERTICULAR CIGAR. All this changed at around 1998-1999. We call that the dark years, but in my opinion, their consistancy hasn't rebounded to what it ever was before that...and to tell you the truth, we saw a big change around 1989-1991. After that point we got boxes that were hit-or-miss....WE NEVER HAD THAT UP TO THAT POINT!

My point about 'sick period' is that I never really aged my CC back then....never had to. I guess I like the fresher profile that they arrived with. Don't get me wrong, I smoked aged and pre-embargoed cigars as well over this time but they never really bowled me over to the point of saying..."wow, I got to be doing this aging thing!" ....I liked what I liked. I did enjoy a cigar aged a couple of years and it did mellow out and taste smoother with a different taste profile...but not killer different from what I liked. I have yet to smoke a pre-embargo that didn't taste like (as my brother puts it) "like musty basement." I bought from Christies Auction and paid a lot of money for them, they came with all the paperwork documenting it's past and storage conditions and they still sucked...TO ME.

If you talk to a native Cuban exile, they say that the reason that they need to be aged or approached differently is because the cigars are handled more quickly....tobacco is not given time to do what it needs to do BEFORE and AFTER it's rolled...that could be letting the leaves rest and age (ferment)....or selecting just certain leaves off the plant for certain profiles....or how the leaves are handled in the fields when they are nurtured while growing (fertilized: chemical versus natural)...or just to sit and rest before they are shipped out. They talk about cigars that were never released because they weren't RIGHT to smoke...period...given to the factory workers to smoke instead of releasing them to market! But now that is not the case....they release everything for sale....good or bad. This is their opinion and they are very passionate about it.... and it makes perfect sense.

Case in point. I have some Partagas SD #4s bought around 2002-2003, don't know the box code as I did a box split with a friend, he got the box, they're authentic, he bought them on vacation from an LCDH. These tasted like ass when I got them...I smoke one a year to check their progress and still taste like ass to this day. I have let others that smoke them try one....and they say they taste like ass too!
IS THIS A SICK CIGAR OR JUST A BAD CIGAR?

You talk about NC not needed aging....I read here all day that the new Nicaraguan premium cigars hitting the market need to sit, is that an assumption or fact? Comments about Pete Johnson's cigars go like "I smoked one today that was OK but lacked character so I'll let the rest of them sit for a while...I'm sure they'll only get better with some age on them." Assumption or fact?...or are we going by the newer line of thinking (last 15-20 yrs) taught to use by CC producers that if we let a one dimensional cigar age, it WILL GET BETTER?

I have a bunch of cigars sitting and aging because that is the new company line...but now I think I am going to approach this differently...if I like them now, I will smoke them now. If they suck, I'm only going to give them a certain amount of time to straighten out...at that point I'll figure something out. Now, I research more carefully about a cigar before I buy, if I see comments like.."this will be outstanding in 3-5 years"....I'm not buying it. I have humidors full of that stuff already.

So is there really a "sick period" or is this spin doctoring for "let a shitty cigar sit until you forget about it?"....I don't know....just asking. I've read all about the science of this but all I know is what I know from my years of smoking...if I don't like it, I don't like it and all the talking and reading isn't going to change that. What I'm saying is that I'm kinda pissed now when I finally open a box after 2-5-8 years of aging and saying.....yuck, this sucks....and remember about our previous posting about preconceived notions (Wilkey) just confusses me more.

There are no answers to a lot of this stuff, that's what makes this passion of ours so cool.


Brian, this post is classic Internet....if you posted this in February you'd already have 60 responses...but now it's Summer and we all have other stuff to do......gotta' go now, we're heading the beach and I have to figure out what cigars I'm bringing so I can piss people off on the sand when I endanger their children with cancer from second hand smoke in 25mph winds!...should turn out to be a fun day.

Have a Great Sunday folks.
 
Good post Gary.

Here's my problem...many of the NC's we smoke today are made by the same families that left Cuba with their seeds to begin new lives in places like Honduras and Dominican.

All they did IMO, was plant seeds in a new country, not change the way they harvested and rolled. So, #2's question is still on the board unanswered :laugh: :whistling:

Brian
 
Good post Gary.

Here's my problem...many of the NC's we smoke today are made by the same families that left Cuba with their seeds to begin new lives in places like Honduras and Dominican.

All they did IMO, was plant seeds in a new country, not change the way they harvested and rolled. So, #2's question is still on the board unanswered :laugh: :whistling:

Brian

This has always intrigued me. If you eliminate the common factors you are left with soil content as the climates are often very similar, right? I read once that Cuba has an unnaturally high amount of Lithium in the soil.

Lithium is used in the treatment of depression, maybe this is why we are all so happy to smoke ISOM's? :D
 
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