A newbie question for you experts

[Jam1173]

Great post Gary,

Certainly left me with a lot to think about. I have been buying some of my favorite sticks for long term storage...Why...I love the way they smoke now, what makes me think they are going to be much better later on. It would certainly be disappointing to go into my stash after some time and find that the cigars suck.

 

[MadMonk]

Good post Gary.
One thing that I did leave out of my post is that I've also heard that the Cubans use "young" tobacco.
I.e. Is Pepin using "Young" Tobacco? Both types, over time, do seem to change character to a fairly significant degree, to me.
Then you take a well aged leaf, make a Padron Anniversary, and two years later, it tastes pretty darned close to the day you bought them. That is my ultimate type of cigar.
I also believe that the well age leaf produces a cigar with less burn issues.

And boy yes, sometimes I've received boxes that taste like crap, and your point on is it sick or just crap is excellent. I've only ever kept one box of pepin smokes that arrived ammonia riddled. A year later...they still tasted like crap. Rather than trying to anticipate what the cigar is going to do...now I just send them back! And I try to to my purchasing in the cooler months.

I havent had one "aged" Cuban that I liked better than a fresh one. I've had some aged that that were nice smokes. And I've had some aged ones that were acrid and bitter with supposedly 5 to 10 years on them.
So I do believe we still have mutiple phenomena. I don't think I can live long enough to really get all the answers, so many factors involved. If I get them in. and they aren't right, they're going back.

edit for spelling

 

[moki]

I've been wondering this for a while so I've decided to put it to our experts. Everyone talks about ISOM's going through their "sick period", some longer than others. I have a few Taboada's and have been told they have a substantially longer sick period than other ISOM's. What creates the sick period in ISOM's that you don't see in NC's? It seems as if most all NC's are ready to go out of the box and are just as good 3 months into the box as they are a year into it.I know age lets the tobacco ferment but why such a profound difference in an Aged Cohiba compared to an aged Padron? I've had young and old of both and the profile in the Cohiba changes a good bit IMO but I've had a 7 year old Padron '26 #2 maduro that had just a touch more of a mellow profile than a new one.

BTW, I'm already awaiting a few of you to be smartasses and tell me "search is your friend newb" :laugh: I want current info and not opinions that are 3 or 4 years old.

Sick Period = "Geez, this cigar sucks... too bad Cuba sells cigars years before they are ready to smoke... but since it is from Cuba, I'll say it's a 'sick period' instead of just young, lousy tobacco that never should have left the factory without having been properly processed"

 

[ironpeddler]

Good post Gary.

Here's my problem...many of the NC's we smoke today are made by the same families that left Cuba with their seeds to begin new lives in places like Honduras and Dominican.

All they did IMO, was plant seeds in a new country, not change the way they harvested and rolled. So, #2's question is still on the board unanswered :laugh: :whistling:

Brian

#1....like I said, I added more questions and gave no answers :laugh:

What I eluded to was that these exiled Cuban families that took native seed and grew the tobacco elsewhere, they took more than just skill and experience with them....IMO, they took a marketing technique as well.

This has always intrigued me. If you eliminate the common factors you are left with soil content as the climates are often very similar, right? I read once that Cuba has an unnaturally high amount of Lithium in the soil.

Lithium is used in the treatment of depression, maybe this is why we are all so happy to smoke ISOM's?

CS,

I did notice I've been less bi-polar since I've been smoking CC :laugh:

Great post Gary,

Certainly left me with a lot to think about. I have been buying some of my favorite sticks for long term storage...Why...I love the way they smoke now, what makes me think they are going to be much better later on. It would certainly be disappointing to go into my stash after some time and find that the cigars suck.

I slowed buying CC (2001-2002) after blowing good money following the Dark Years...and for me it was the SECOND big drop in quality from that ISOM. After joining CP and reading a ton of info about them I just recently went back to sample what is being produced....and I don't see that things have changed much, the quality is better in a way but when I read post after post about mandatory aging, I think my posting to #2's question was also based on frustration....

What happened to the days of buying a box of CC and smoking them? Now there is a whole process we discuss here about interpreting the cigar to hopefully predict when it will be at it's peak....and when that time frame is delayed time after time...we call it "sick" or "young".....enough already :laugh:

 

[ironpeddler]

Good post Gary.
One thing that I did leave out of my post is that I've also heard that the Cubans use "young" tobacco.
I.e. Is Pepin using "Young" Tobacco? Both types, over time, do seem to change character to a fairly significant degree, to me.
Then you take a well aged leaf, make a Padron Anniversary, and two years later, it tastes pretty darned close to the day you bought them.

Dan,

Like I said to #1...Pepin took more than seed and know-how from Cuba...he learned how to mass produce high end cigars employing their marketing technique.

As for the Padron Annis...that is my point...right out of the box they are ready to smoke...like used to be the case with CC up until the late 80's. I recently sent JHawk a 6-7yo old Exclusivo natural and he said when he smoked it, it was a fine cigar...but was it really that much better than the day I got them?....marginally at best. That is a great example of how to produce and release a cigar.

Sick Period = "Geez, this cigar sucks... too bad Cuba sells cigars years before they are ready to smoke... but since it is from Cuba, I'll say it's a 'sick period' instead of just young, lousy tobacco that never should have left the factory without having been properly processed"

Moki,

Time to call a spade a spade. :laugh:

 

[anvil]

I've been wondering this for a while so I've decided to put it to our experts. Everyone talks about ISOM's going through their "sick period", some longer than others. I have a few Taboada's and have been told they have a substantially longer sick period than other ISOM's. What creates the sick period in ISOM's that you don't see in NC's? It seems as if most all NC's are ready to go out of the box and are just as good 3 months into the box as they are a year into it.I know age lets the tobacco ferment but why such a profound difference in an Aged Cohiba compared to an aged Padron? I've had young and old of both and the profile in the Cohiba changes a good bit IMO but I've had a 7 year old Padron '26 #2 maduro that had just a touch more of a mellow profile than a new one.

BTW, I'm already awaiting a few of you to be smartasses and tell me "search is your friend newb" :laugh: I want current info and not opinions that are 3 or 4 years old.

Sick Period = "Geez, this cigar sucks... too bad Cuba sells cigars years before they are ready to smoke... but since it is from Cuba, I'll say it's a 'sick period' instead of just young, lousy tobacco that never should have left the factory without having been properly processed"

My sentiments exactly Andrew.

 

[Mike33]

I've been wondering this for a while so I've decided to put it to our experts. Everyone talks about ISOM's going through their "sick period", some longer than others. I have a few Taboada's and have been told they have a substantially longer sick period than other ISOM's. What creates the sick period in ISOM's that you don't see in NC's? It seems as if most all NC's are ready to go out of the box and are just as good 3 months into the box as they are a year into it.I know age lets the tobacco ferment but why such a profound difference in an Aged Cohiba compared to an aged Padron? I've had young and old of both and the profile in the Cohiba changes a good bit IMO but I've had a 7 year old Padron '26 #2 maduro that had just a touch more of a mellow profile than a new one.

BTW, I'm already awaiting a few of you to be smartasses and tell me "search is your friend newb" :laugh: I want current info and not opinions that are 3 or 4 years old.

Sick Period = "Geez, this cigar sucks... too bad Cuba sells cigars years before they are ready to smoke... but since it is from Cuba, I'll say it's a 'sick period' instead of just young, lousy tobacco that never should have left the factory without having been properly processed"

Yeah, Fuente would never do something like that, would they? Because they never rush the hands of time (King B comes to mind)

 

[MadMonk]

Gary,
This marketing technique you mentioned. Are you saying the Cubans are selling inferior product, and using the aging schtick to encourage purchases? Looking for clarification. In a sense, a sort of "if you can't fix it, feature it"?

If I'm understanding the responses here, I take it there was a time when cuban manufacturers applied the more respected processing techniques. Unfortunately, I've never smoked that product.

So I am finding ideas here that support some of my ruminations. Only makes me wonder more what is possible.

I actually once told myself that I would smoke nothing but LFD's, high end Padrons, and VSG's. I caved because I love the flavors Pepin can produce, but at a cost that is becoming uncomfortable. I will say that I have experienced the least problems with Tatuaje; thank Goodness.

 

[grateful1]

This has been discussed - even recently.

The main thing that has changed is the fact Cuba is suppose to be using tobacco that has been aging for a while.
This is true of the EL's, though I'm still looking for info on the regular production. Even if I don't find the hard facts, I will say the some of the newer stuff has NOT been getting as 'sick' as some of the pre-2006 stock that was around.
With using aged tobacco, it doesn't go thru a very stong 'sick' period. Instead, as with other cigars, it goes thru a period were the tobacco's 'marry'.

I've had Davidoff's and Fuente's and other (Rare Corojo comes to mind), that have fallen into a 'bland' period.
Is this 'sick' or 'marrying'....who knows?

Do you eat green banana's.....or let them sit when you get them home?
If they are yellow, do you wait for them to turn a little brown - to your liking( a little softer)?

Here's a nice linky. (one that I'm sure was POSTED BEFORE!) "laugh:

 

[ironpeddler]

Gary,
This marketing technique you mentioned. Are you saying the Cubans are selling inferior product, and using the aging schtick to encourage purchases? Looking for clarification. In a sense, a sort of "if you can't fix it, feature it"?

Yes & Yes...but inferior may be a harsh way of saying it. The fact is that they ship everything they produce for the most part...the great, good, not so good, and bad product. The aging of tobacco before production is slowly getting shorter and shorter. The "time old tradition" of CC has been stretched a bit over the years...especially during the cigar boom. Don't think for one minute that they didn't rush product to market to capitalize on the new smokers with more money than experience. Now we are paying the price for tabacco not put to the side to be aged for 3-5-8 years for future "ready-to-smoke" cigars.

Dan, this is a widely believed opinion and is nothing new..and hotly debated....the degree of it's depth lies within the person experiencing this time line. Talk to people in their 70s & 80s and they'll give you an earfull about this. Tell one of these fellows that you just bought a box of CC but they have to be aged first before you can enjoy them, the first thing they will say is "why do you have to do that?" The older I get, the more I believe in this ideal because I am shedding the romance and just centering on the smoking.

So when you mentioned the concept of, "if you can't fix it, feature it"...you be the judge...how many reviews do you read about a CC saying "what a great smoke, good to smoke now and enjoy." It's more like "Habanos S.A. recommends this cigar age for an additional 2-3 years to release it true natural taste."

But with the way things are now, do we have a choice? The Fuentes do it...Pepin Gargia is doing it and with more companies coming out with premium and super premium cigars doing it...it seems to me that this has become a business model that the buying public warmly embraces. There will hardly ever be a decision about the final merits of a CC.

Where do I get my money back when that box of 5yo cigars I was told to age still taste like crap? :laugh:

I'm just making an observation that the industry is different today than it was 20 years ago.

 

[moki]

Different story... The King B's are just bad

I've been wondering this for a while so I've decided to put it to our experts. Everyone talks about ISOM's going through their "sick period", some longer than others. I have a few Taboada's and have been told they have a substantially longer sick period than other ISOM's. What creates the sick period in ISOM's that you don't see in NC's? It seems as if most all NC's are ready to go out of the box and are just as good 3 months into the box as they are a year into it.I know age lets the tobacco ferment but why such a profound difference in an Aged Cohiba compared to an aged Padron? I've had young and old of both and the profile in the Cohiba changes a good bit IMO but I've had a 7 year old Padron '26 #2 maduro that had just a touch more of a mellow profile than a new one.

BTW, I'm already awaiting a few of you to be smartasses and tell me "search is your friend newb" :laugh: I want current info and not opinions that are 3 or 4 years old.

Sick Period = "Geez, this cigar sucks... too bad Cuba sells cigars years before they are ready to smoke... but since it is from Cuba, I'll say it's a 'sick period' instead of just young, lousy tobacco that never should have left the factory without having been properly processed"

Yeah, Fuente would never do something like that, would they? Because they never rush the hands of time (King B comes to mind)