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Are 70% HF beads really 65%?

Cigar FF

Cigar FF

Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2011
Messages
300
Location
Long Island, NY
I have been paying closer attention to my RH in my tupperdor being as though I picked up a wine fridge (AW281 E) recently. I originally thought that 70% was where I wanted to store my cigars. After observing for quite some time, it seems i sit more closely to 65% or in the 66%-68% range. I know, it's not a great departure from 70% but... I also know it comes down to preference and I don't have many complaints with even burns, draw, etc. with my current conditions. Although, I have been flirting on the warmer side temp wise hence the new windeador. 
 
I know that the beads are rated at said RH but when I finally decide to move my stash into the wineador, do I stay with the 70% beads and go off of recent observations that the actual RH sits lower than 70% or do I go for 65% beads in the wineador and hope that my wineador stays more consistent? My observations show me that I will not stay at 70% and it's closer to 66% after adding new cigars. Therefore, it seems that 70% beads will keep my cigars at an RH 4-5% lower than what they are rated. My concern with the 65% beads is that it will keep the cigars closer to 60% and that may be too dry for my liking. 
 
Just wondering if my observations are in line with what others have observed. 
 
Not to over simplify, but have you tested your hygrometer?  It could very well be that your 70% beads are in fact producing a 70% RH and your hygrometer is off.
 
I think this is where you start.  I know I always owned 65% beads before my active humidification system and they were very close to 65%.  I don't think it's typical that your beads will produce 5% less RH than advertised.
 
I did salt test 2 of them and noted the difference in readings compared to 75%. One was dead on while the other was -2%. I re-tested and the same reading so I marked it as such. It has been about a year so perhaps it's worth re-calibrating. I have the Caliber III as I read they are very accurate. I guess I was thinking aloud about whether the dryness of cigars made the beads produce slightly dryer. I eliminated a troubled humidor so I know my seal is good. 
 
Thanks for the suggestion. It's always the simplest things I overlook..lol
 
Dry cigars will initially cause variance in your humidity, no doubt.  But after everything is stable it should at some point balance out again and sit at 70%.
 
I guess in short, I don't think it's typical for RH beads to product 5% below their advertised RH.  Is there any possibility you ordered 70% beads but received 65%?
 
I understand the dry cigar theory and agree that it should recover after a few days. I dont know what gives...lol I don't stress about it like I used to but I just want to make sure I make the correct decision moving forward and moving into a wineador. Unless the box is stamped incorrectly on the beads, they are 70%. 
 
I'm going to re-calibrate today to be sure and take it from there. I appreciate the advice. I am always hesitant when moving cigars to new storage. 
 
I would also make sure that the seal on the tupperdor is nice and tight.  Also where are you storing your tupperdor?  Temperature and ambient humidity can also change things.  
 
Nah.  I notice my HF 70% evens out at 67%.  Glad I didn't get the 65%.  I prefer my cigars on slightly more moister side.
 
Joebiech said:
I would also make sure that the seal on the tupperdor is nice and tight.  Also where are you storing your tupperdor?  Temperature and ambient humidity can also change things.  
Click to expand...
One thing I'm sure of is the seal on the Lock and Lock. It's a great seal. Prior to that, my seal was the big culprit for not holding RH.
 
If it weren't for some temperature concerns and the need for more storage, I would be more than happy leaving my cigars in the lock and lock. It isn't pretty but it sure does probably the best job at keeping the RH stable. My tupperador is in a closet in my den which is at ground level (split house with 4 levels). The temps sit around 74 but I do not have A/C in the den and sometimes the sun warms the room up pretty well. Being in the closet, the swing isn't as drastic but I have seen the temps in the tupperador up to 80. I want no additional concerns about temperature so I decided to graduate to a wineador.
 
Maverick, thanks for chiming in. Again, I don't think it's critical but I tend to like my cigars around the 65%-67% RH mark and thought about getting 65% to supply the wineador. I want to understand if it is normal for there to be a 3-5% difference in RH from the rated percentage. I'm sure there are plenty of variables involved but it seems that it may be a better idea to go with 70% and have it sit near 65-67% than go with 65% and sit below 65%.
 
Cigar FF said:
 
I would also make sure that the seal on the tupperdor is nice and tight.  Also where are you storing your tupperdor?  Temperature and ambient humidity can also change things.  
Click to expand...
One thing I'm sure of is the seal on the Lock and Lock. It's a great seal. Prior to that, my seal was the big culprit for not holding RH.
 
If it weren't for some temperature concerns and the need for more storage, I would be more than happy leaving my cigars in the lock and lock. It isn't pretty but it sure does probably the best job at keeping the RH stable. My tupperador is in a closet in my den which is at ground level (split house with 4 levels). The temps sit around 74 but I do not have A/C in the den and sometimes the sun warms the room up pretty well. Being in the closet, the swing isn't as drastic but I have seen the temps in the tupperador up to 80. I want no additional concerns about temperature so I decided to graduate to a wineador.
 
Maverick, thanks for chiming in. Again, I don't think it's critical but I tend to like my cigars around the 65%-67% RH mark and thought about getting 65% to supply the wineador. I want to understand if it is normal for there to be a 3-5% difference in RH from the rated percentage. I'm sure there are plenty of variables involved but it seems that it may be a better idea to go with 70% and have it sit near 65-67% than go with 65% and sit below 65%.
 
Click to expand...
 
One thing I could tell is this. I have 3 pounds of 65% beads in my wineadors. During the day, when I'm not home, my air conditioner is off and my humidity drops to around 60%-63% (it gets pretty hot in my place and the cooling system runs much more often). When I get home and I turn the air conditioner on, it goes up to around 68% and by the morning time it's around 66%. I do not have a TCU installed as I'm sure this would help a lot with the humidity swings. My point in telling you this is, that if you do not have a constant ambient temperature or a TCU installed, your wineador will have the same issues as mines. If you get the 70% beads, this will do good when the cooling system is running often as it will keep the humidity around 65%, but it will go way above 70% when it isn't running as much.
 
I'm planning on installing the Johnson Controls Digital Thermostat Control Unit soon.
 
I was thinking 2 lbs was going to be sufficient as I've read many people saying 2 lbs is overkill. I was on board of having the conditions return to normal faster by having more beads in there. It's funny how the temperature swings 4-5 degrees even though my cigars are in a closet, in a room that doesn't usually see large temp swings like the rest of my home. I am confident that the wineador will fix this.
 
I will try out the wineador as it is with beads, than observe and add a fan if necessary. If all else fails, than I plan on following your footsteps with the digital thermostat. I guess the best thing to do is experiment and see what happens. I will try the 70% in hopes that it will keep them at 65-67%. If not, I can always change it right?
 
Again, thank you for the talk throughs and advice. Much appreciated.
 
Here is some ancient knowledge for you, from an old fart who has been studying and enjoying cigars for 40 years.
 
Let's say relative humidity is measured from a set point,temperature and humidity,and varies from that set point on a sliding scale.
 
In the "old days",we always used the set point "70% at 70 degrees F.
 
So,if your temperature rises to 73 degrees,your relative humidity would drop to 67%.
 
Likewise,the temp drops to 67 degrees,the relative humidity rises to 73%
 
Keep in mind that the amount of moisture in the air is the same"relative"amount to 70 / 70.
 
This is how it all works,until your temp falls below 60 degrees,at which point the air cannot carry enough moisture to sustain the balance.
 
This is how I learned it many years ago.I suppose the information has been overlooked or forgotten,so here it is for you.
 
As far as beads,perhaps the manufacturer has some information available for users about set points and recommended temps for best results.
The only problem I see is that beads absorb as well as give off moisture,there must be a point where they will pull moisture back out of your cigars when the temperature reaches a certain level.........
 
Also remember that beetles hatch in conditions where the temp is above 70 degrees and the humidity is above 70%,so if your ambient temp.is above 70 degrees,keep your cigars a bit dryer,you probably will enjoy them more and experience better combustion .
 
I keep my sticks at 63 % + or - 2 % and 69 degrees,especially my cubans..........
 
Thank you for the knowledge garbandz. Very simple way to understand the science behind it. The main purpose behind me starting this thread was because I plan on moving my cigars to a wineador and wanted to see if I should stick with the 70% beads which I currently have or move down to 65%. It seems that the 70% is the way I'm going to go for now.
 
My reason for going to a wineador was b/c my ambient temps were getting too close to 80 degrees for my liking and I didn't want any concerns with beetles. Having little experience with wineadors, I wanted to make sure I was making the correct decision with my beads selection.
 
Thanks to all for the education.
 
Have you taken altitude into consideration?  Mean height above sea level could be playing havoc with your RH calibration efforts......
 
Good thought...I'm only 200' above sea level. I am family certain I'm fine and will just stick with my 70% beads. I was worries that the wineador may be too efficient and keep things at 70%.
 
Be patient and let the thing sit for a month or so. No matter where the humidity finally settles in at, your cigars are not in imminent danger...in time you'll get an accurate reading. As long as you hygrometers are calibrated correctly, and it sounds like you have that well in hand, the answers will present themselves in time.
 
Standard RH rant.
 
I used to freak out about a point or two in RH in my humidors, but over time I came to realize it basically doesn't matter nearly as much as many new guys think it does.  Round up a hundred long term, serious cigar smokers and ask them what their preferred RH is.  You'll get answers from 58% to 75%.  Honestly, as long as you store your smokes between 60% and 70%, you're going to be just fine.  I prefer 65% but my cabinet drifts around a couple points and even a little higher when the home AC runs hard in the summer months.  Can I taste the difference?  Not hardly, as 'The Duke' would say.  I know there are guys that claim they can easily tell the difference between a point in RH, and respectfully I think they are nuts.
 
Consistancy matters.  You don't want your smokes storage RH swinging from, say, 60% to 75% quickly over and over.  Also, as soon as the storage temperature gets much over 70F your risk of hatching beetles grows exponentially, though they are very, very rare anymore.  Beyond that, be it 63% or 65% or 67%....IMHO it just isn't a big deal.
 
As they say, one man's opinion......B.B.S.
 
Figured I'd update this quick... I recalibrated 2 of my Caliber III's and both were still within 2 points. I suppose what I thought was a full tuppador actually wasn't. I had a couple of boxes delivered and filled up my tuppador nearly to capacity and resprayed the beads for good measure. Humidity spiked to 75% (whoops) and than settled down at 69%. It has been at 68-69% for a couple of days now. I never realized that 3/4 full would cause a difference in RH by as much as 6 points less than the rating of the beads.
 
You learn something new everyday. Thank you all for the guidance. One of the many reasons I enjoy this place.
 
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