Bolivar Question

[Wombat]

Hi All:

Need a little specific help with sourcing. I'm trying to find a box of Bolivar Belicosos Finos from '04 (or earlier). The two vendors I have used (and trust) only have 05's. If you can help me out, please shoot me a PM. Many thanks...

 

[Ironworker]

Sorry I can't help with a vendor but if your looking for aged, 04's aren't considered very aged.

As far as the BBF I prefer them fresh rather than aged. Just a personal preference I guess.


Rich

 

[Wombat]

Rich:

Thanks for your reply. Have you had any '05's? The only BBF's I have tried have all been from an 04 box...so I guess it's just a matter of going with what you know. I also heard at least one bad comment on the 05's (too green) that made me think they would need plenty of aging before I could enjoy. Just trying to cover all of the bases...but I'll probably end up going with the newer box. Looks like I'll need to put in a little (or a lot) more time here to get some source info...no prob as I'm in for the long haul

 

[pittesq]

Had '05s back in May that were excellent. I have box on the way, but from the reviews I've heard the '05s have been pretty nice. Like Rich said may just be personal preferance though.

 

[armedak]

My canadian friend tells me both the 04 and 05 are pretty good smokes. I definitely would not pay a premium for the 04 over the 05. They both will be better with a few years of age on them.

 

[cigardawg]

My canadian friend tells me both the 04 and 05 are pretty good smokes. I definitely would not pay a premium for the 04 over the 05. They both will be better with a few years of age on them.

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I'm darned picky about my Bolivars. I have had BBFs from 04 and currently have about 1/2 a box of Feb 03s. I have found both to be too fresh. Bolivars are one of the brands that just needs age for me to enjoy. Pretty tannic when young, IMHO. They age so well, however, that you just have to have them in the collection. The 97s and 98s and even the 01s are fabulous. :thumbs:

 

[Ironworker]

What about a box from 2000? Was that a good year for the BBF's?

Just curious because I seen some availible.

Rich

 

[Strayvector]

What about a box from 2000? Was that a good year for the BBF's?

Just curious because I seen some availible.

Rich

[snapback]271300[/snapback]​

From my limited experience, no. The local shop that I used to frequent had a box from 2000 on the shelves. The first I smoked was one of the best cigars I ever had. Practically perfect in every way. Then the next 3 I smoked were either very tight or plugged and had very bad burns. I loved the flavor of the BBF so much, I had a fifth, and again I got perfection. Batting .400 in baseball may be great, but if you're buying a box, not good. When the box from 2000 ran out, they put out a box from 2003 and I smoked 5 from that box and every single one had perfect construction. Granted, the flavors were not as refined as those from 2000, but the consistency more than made up for it. The BBF is a great smoke and a staple in my humidor. They taste good enough young that I have not bothered to look for aged specimens. The oldest I have are the last 2 from the 2003 box that I brought back from Sweden.

I've also read several places that Cubans made in 1999 and 2000 should be avoided because of production issues during those years.

 

[Strayvector]

I'm darned picky about my Bolivars. I have had BBFs from 04 and currently have about 1/2 a box of Feb 03s. I have found both to be too fresh. Bolivars are one of the brands that just needs age for me to enjoy. Pretty tannic when young, IMHO. They age so well, however, that you just have to have them in the collection. The 97s and 98s and even the 01s are fabulous. :thumbs:

[snapback]271170[/snapback]​

Sounds like I need to do some searching for older BBFs.

 

[cigardawg]

What about a box from 2000? Was that a good year for the BBF's?

Just curious because I seen some availible.

Rich

[snapback]271300[/snapback]​

From my limited experience, no. The local shop that I used to frequent had a box from 2000 on the shelves. The first I smoked was one of the best cigars I ever had. Practically perfect in every way. Then the next 3 I smoked were either very tight or plugged and had very bad burns. I loved the flavor of the BBF so much, I had a fifth, and again I got perfection. Batting .400 in baseball may be great, but if you're buying a box, not good. When the box from 2000 ran out, they put out a box from 2003 and I smoked 5 from that box and every single one had perfect construction. Granted, the flavors were not as refined as those from 2000, but the consistency more than made up for it. The BBF is a great smoke and a staple in my humidor. They taste good enough young that I have not bothered to look for aged specimens. The oldest I have are the last 2 from the 2003 box that I brought back from Sweden.

I've also read several places that Cubans made in 1999 and 2000 should be avoided because of production issues during those years.

[snapback]271361[/snapback]​

I agree with most of this. However, I think it depends on the vendor as well. Yes, the Cuban cigar industry's QA/QC was awful during 99, 00, and even early 01. Many plugged and otherwise poorly constructed cigars. However, they also made some good ones. A lot of it depends on how discriminating your vendor is. I have a number of boxes from 99 and 00. I have had trouble with only one box and it was not from my usual source. I'm talking about a variety of sizes too, dalias, petite coronas, corona gordas, lonsdales, etc.

So, I guess the answer to this is...it depends. Rich, if you don't mind telling me where you saw the 00s, I'd be happy to share what I think.

I'm darned picky about my Bolivars. I have had BBFs from 04 and currently have about 1/2 a box of Feb 03s. I have found both to be too fresh. Bolivars are one of the brands that just needs age for me to enjoy. Pretty tannic when young, IMHO. They age so well, however, that you just have to have them in the collection. The 97s and 98s and even the 01s are fabulous. :thumbs:

[snapback]271170[/snapback]​

Sounds like I need to do some searching for older BBFs.

[snapback]271362[/snapback]​

And that is the rub. Finding aged/older BBFs or any of the other "popular" cigars can be hard. Not impossible, but hard. I say "popular" referring to robustos, belicosos, and some corona gordas and petite coronas. So many people want these "popular" cigars, that it is difficult to find aged/older ones.

 

[golfgar]

What about a box from 2000? Was that a good year for the BBF's?

Just curious because I seen some availible.

Rich

[snapback]271300[/snapback]​

From my limited experience, no. The local shop that I used to frequent had a box from 2000 on the shelves. The first I smoked was one of the best cigars I ever had. Practically perfect in every way. Then the next 3 I smoked were either very tight or plugged and had very bad burns. I loved the flavor of the BBF so much, I had a fifth, and again I got perfection. Batting .400 in baseball may be great, but if you're buying a box, not good. When the box from 2000 ran out, they put out a box from 2003 and I smoked 5 from that box and every single one had perfect construction. Granted, the flavors were not as refined as those from 2000, but the consistency more than made up for it. The BBF is a great smoke and a staple in my humidor. They taste good enough young that I have not bothered to look for aged specimens. The oldest I have are the last 2 from the 2003 box that I brought back from Sweden.

I've also read several places that Cubans made in 1999 and 2000 should be avoided because of production issues during those years.

[snapback]271361[/snapback]​

I agree with most of this. However, I think it depends on the vendor as well. Yes, the Cuban cigar industry's QA/QC was awful during 99, 00, and even early 01. Many plugged and otherwise poorly constructed cigars. However, they also made some good ones. A lot of it depends on how discriminating your vendor is. I have a number of boxes from 99 and 00. I have had trouble with only one box and it was not from my usual source. I'm talking about a variety of sizes too, dalias, petite coronas, corona gordas, lonsdales, etc.

So, I guess the answer to this is...it depends. Rich, if you don't mind telling me where you saw the 00s, I'd be happy to share what I think.

I'm darned picky about my Bolivars.  I have had BBFs from 04 and currently have about 1/2 a box of Feb 03s.  I have found both to be too fresh.  Bolivars are one of the brands that just needs age for me to enjoy.  Pretty tannic when young, IMHO.  They age so well, however, that you just have to have them in the collection.  The 97s and 98s and even the 01s are fabulous. :thumbs:

[snapback]271170[/snapback]​

Sounds like I need to do some searching for older BBFs.

[snapback]271362[/snapback]​

And that is the rub. Finding aged/older BBFs or any of the other "popular" cigars can be hard. Not impossible, but hard. I say "popular" referring to robustos, belicosos, and some corona gordas and petite coronas. So many people want these "popular" cigars, that it is difficult to find aged/older ones.

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Dawg.....you really know your schmidt. I agree that the popular ones are hard to find aged, especially on the net since there are only really a few "popular" vendors. There are other vendors that are harder to get to and cost more, sometimes a lot more.

 

[Wombat]

Thanks all, this has turned into a very intersting discussion. Thanks also for those of you who PM'ed me with info (you know who you are), it was very helpful.

Another question for the group. In looking for some aged BBF's (no luck yet), I came across a dress box of PC's (NISC VC3), which I believe is 12/97. Is this far enough before the problem years of 99-01?

 

[emodx]

Thanks all, this has turned into a very intersting discussion. Thanks also for those of you who PM'ed me with info (you know who you are), it was very helpful.

Another question for the group. In looking for some aged BBF's (no luck yet), I came across a dress box of PC's (NISC VC3), which I believe is 12/97. Is this far enough before the problem years of 99-01?

[snapback]271639[/snapback]​

I am no box code expert, but I have smoked a few Boli PC's in my time. I tried 2 or 3 from 98 that were really good. Not nearly as complex as a BBf or RC, but still an outstanding cigar.

Emo

 

[cigardawg]

Thanks all, this has turned into a very intersting discussion. Thanks also for those of you who PM'ed me with info (you know who you are), it was very helpful.

Another question for the group. In looking for some aged BBF's (no luck yet), I came across a dress box of PC's (NISC VC3), which I believe is 12/97. Is this far enough before the problem years of 99-01?

[snapback]271639[/snapback]​

I have smoked quite a few Bolivars from both 97 and 98. Not as many as others on the board, but enough to form an opinion. Of the ones I have smoked, I have had only one cigar with a tough draw, not plugged, just tough. The others have had perfect construction. The flavors have been fantastic. Now, it also depends on the vitola. The stronger Bolivars that I have had from this time period were the most flavorful. I also have a "weaker" vitola that, IMHO, will not really benefit from additional aging. I am all about smoking these now. The BBF, believe it or not, is one of the "weaker" vitolas (I'm talking about strength of the blend, tannins, etc.).

I think if you have found some from 97, they should be peaking if they have not already. Unfortunately, I don't have experience with BBFs from 97. As far as construction issues, you should be good to go. Of course, this also depends on the vendor. Like I said above, it is all about trust. How discriminating is your vendor? How carefully did he/she age them? Trust.

Just my 0.02.

 

[Wombat]

I think if you have found some from 97, they should be peaking if they have not already.

Interesting. How does this match up with RMN. I have been reading his aging section and he states the the third fermintation could be 20 to 50 years to bring out all of the flavors. Of course I've never had anything that old, so I can't comment. I do find all of this info about aging very interesting and I guess the best way to figure it out is some more direct experience!

 

[cigardawg]

I think if you have found some from 97, they should be peaking if they have not already.

Interesting. How does this match up with RMN. I have been reading his aging section and he states the the third fermintation could be 20 to 50 years to bring out all of the flavors. Of course I've never had anything that old, so I can't comment. I do find all of this info about aging very interesting and I guess the best way to figure it out is some more direct experience!

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You are right. MRN talks about aging cigars in terms of decades. I guess I should correct myself and state that they have probably peaked in terms of flavorsomeness (if that is a word ). I think further aging, while making the cigar more elegant and revealing this "ethereal" nature that MRN refers to, will not make it more flavorsome. Of course, this is just my opinion. I have not smoked a 20 year old Boli, so I don't really know. I do know that compared to "fresher" Bolis, the flavors in my '97s are much more "delicate." It is just by taste, but I could see them fading into "etherealness" in the next 2-3 years.

I agree that direct experience is the best way to tell. Of course, I'm going to have to wait for a long time to test this. :0 I am able to compare Bolivars and some other brands over a 9 year period, but beyond that, I have nothing to go by.

BTW, this is a great discussion that I am enjoying immensely. The more we discuss, the more I read. The more I read, the more I learn. The more I learn, the more I want to expand my collection. The more......

You can see where this is going. :thumbs: