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EliteXCvs.WEC

Matty_Vegas

Matty_Vegas

Wayne Newton Mafia Boss
Joined
Mar 29, 2005
Messages
1,395
I am leaving ICON and DREAM out of the discussion for simplicities sake. I think WEC is really in most cases better than UFC, I just think the UFC has more marketable fighters, but skillwise Uriah Faber and Senor Torres are as easily as skilled as GSP and Anderson Silva. Even though they are both owned by the same company, I find heavyweight fights to be boring for the most part, and I have never seen a heavyweight fight in the WEC. EliteXC is developing a stable of fighters like Diaz, Lawler, Cung Le, Nogueria and of course Carano, but I like submission fighting and it is rare to see one on thier broadcasts.

WEC hands down for me
 
WEC is by far better than Elite, as we saw last week or so. Faber and those guys need to fight UFC imo.
 
Nogueira fought in EXC? I know big nog hasn't, and I thought Little Nog is only doing the Affliction gig post pride.

I love Pride, so I also love DREAM, but you aren't counting that...

For American MMA, I don't beleive you can count WEC as it's own entity because it is owned by Zuffa - hell it's even promoted during UFC fights. EXC is currently the only real contender now that IFL is sharing at 2 cents. I say currently because the Affliction show hasn't come around yet - if you want to know where all the Heavy Weight talent is, just take a look at Affliction's stacked card. Fedor, Big Tim, Rizzo, AA, Barnett, etc.

I don't know how popular Affliction will be in the US. They are fighting in a ring (for the US Cage=MMA, ring=Boxing). And their flagship fighter is Fedor, who many more casual fans don't know is the best heavy weight in the world, and probably the best pound for pound fighter in the world.

Despite much of the drama with the UFC and some fighters leaving, it is still by far the highest concentration of talent in the world of MMA.
 
Fedor IS NOT the pound for pound fighter! His ground fighting isn't on the same level as St piere or A. Silva. Both of these guys are more all around fighters than him
 
jeht2000 said:
Fedor IS NOT the pound for pound fighter! His ground fighting isn't on the same level as St piere or A. Silva. Both of these guys are more all around fighters than him
Click to expand...

I find most comparisons of p4p fighting a little silly and too abstract to mean anything, however, against my better judgement: I'm not sure why you beleive Fedor's ground game isn't at the same level or even past GSP or A.Silva. GSP maybe, but if I remember correctly, Silva was mounted by Lutter.

...Lutter.

Anyway, not to say Silva doesn't have excellent ground game, but I really doubt it's on Fedor's level. Even just looking at the records you'll see that the majority of Fedor's wins are submissions, while Silva's are from strikes.

And of course, Fedor's best submission:

fedor.jpg


I will say that the only reason I would put GSP or Silva over Fedor in a P4P list is because Fedor hasn't faced top 10 competition in a while.

I don't think that was his choice - there wasn't a lot of talent out there that he hadn't already beat and that wasn't ducking him (cough Barnette cough), and the man's gotta pay the bills.
 
IMO, EliteXC completely flopped on it CBS show. THey hung all there cards on Kimbo and guess what, he is a fighter who has many, many flaws. The entire card this past month was a weak showing.
 
Fedor is a sambo fighter. He's really fallen from the P4P rankings, at least until he fights Tim Sylvia on July 19th.

WEC has 145 lb division, while UFC does not. That's where Faber fights.

EliteXC is fun to watch, but the fighters aren't of the caliber of UFC fighters. Cung Le is great, but wouldn't make top 10 in the UFC. Kimbo is a spectacle. Carano can't make weight, so they are making a new weight class for her at 145 lbs.

Affliction is the promotion the UFC is most scared of right now. UFC is putting together a fight card on 4 weeks notice to be shown for free on SpikeTV on July 19th in order to "crush" Affliction's first PPV on the same night. I'll still be ordering the Affliction show (and tivo'ing spiketv), but it definitely shows that the UFC is worried.

By the way, the Affliction card for July 19th:
Fedor Emalienenko vs Tim Sylvia
Andrei Arlovski vs Ben Rothwell
Josh Barnett vs Pedro Rizzo
Matt Lindland vs Fabio Negao
Renato "Babalu" Sobral vs Mike Whitehead
Aleksander Emalienenko vs Paul Buentello
Antonio Nogueira vs Vernon "Tiger" White
Vitor Belfort vs Terry Martin
+ 3 undercards

That's the biggest fight card I've seen in years. If I was the UFC, I'd be worried too.

Oh, and the UFC's card for that night is rumored to have Brandon Vera and Wanderlei Silva. Still not sure if those guys are fighting each other or just on the same card.

Oh yeah, I thought this was funny:
10hj6he.jpg
 
Affliction is throwing rediculous amounts of money at the fighters, and eventually the buyrates will have to catch up with that or they will go under. I also will be buying the Affliction card but only because I want to see Tim get his head removed from his shoulders.
 
I'm debating whether or not I should go to the live event or just order the PPV. I am all of 5 minutes away from the Honda Center. Regardless, I am excited about the Affliction card.

I don't know if the UFC has much to worry about because what you see next month is ALL Affliction has. So unless they plan on putting on the exact same show with the fighters swapped around 3 months from now, I don't believe they will last.

C'mon Fedor, time to join the UFC. Big Nog is just waiting to give you his belt.

Pyre said:
Oh, and the UFC's card for that night is rumored to have Brandon Vera and Wanderlei Silva. Still not sure if those guys are fighting each other or just on the same card.
Click to expand...
Wanderlei turned that down because he didn't have enough time to prepare last I heard.

http://www.mmafrenzy.com/2008/06/17/report...nnounced-today/

Pyre said:
Oh yeah, I thought this was funny:
10hj6he.jpg
Click to expand...

It's funny because UFC owns the rights to the old Pride tapes as well as their own, so there aren't really any highlights Affliction can show other than "Fedor Smiling and Babalu looking crazy"
 
bfreebern said:
Wow, some big names there for sure.
Click to expand...

Agreed, they are very recognizable names. Which is good, and bad. Some of those guys might have a couple of good fights left, but that is a lot of aging talent. Afflictions success will depend alot on their ability to find and develop up and coming talent. It will be nice to see Fedor face some good competition (albiet slightly past their prime), but if he really wanted to face the top guys he could have signed with UFC instead of bouncing around several organizations. Maybe he's afraid that he will suffer the same fate as Cro Cop.
 
Bsneed51 said:
bfreebern said:
Wow, some big names there for sure.
Click to expand...

Agreed, they are very recognizable names. Which is good, and bad. Some of those guys might have a couple of good fights left, but that is a lot of aging talent. Afflictions success will depend alot on their ability to find and develop up and coming talent. It will be nice to see Fedor face some good competition (albiet slightly past their prime), but if he really wanted to face the top guys he could have signed with UFC instead of bouncing around several organizations. Maybe he's afraid that he will suffer the same fate as Cro Cop.
Click to expand...

UFC won't let Fedor compete in Sambo under a UFC contract. That's the deal breaker right now. So Fedor is going to any org that will offer a non-exclusive contract.
 
SeanDamnit said:
UFC won't let Fedor compete in Sambo under a UFC contract. That's the deal breaker right now. So Fedor is going to any org that will offer a non-exclusive contract.
Click to expand...

I was not aware of that for some reason.
 
Rizzo was my favorite fighter for a long time. Sadly, he's well past his prime. Barnett should work him over pretty well.

Also, Affliction has got Donald Trump involved now. Surely they are expecting to lose money on this first show. No idea what they have planned for the future, but having the Donald seems to make me think they have some chance.
 
SeanDamnit said:
I find most comparisons of p4p fighting a little silly and too abstract to mean anything, however, against my better judgement: I'm not sure why you beleive Fedor's ground game isn't at the same level or even past GSP or A.Silva. GSP maybe, but if I remember correctly, Silva was mounted by Lutter.

...Lutter.


Sean, granted Lutter doesn't come to fight sometimes, but he does have a black belt in jiu jitsu and is a very good wrestler! And what difference does it make that he took Silva down, if he didn't do any damage? Thats more of a plus for silva. Also, its not Silva's fault he knocks people out before he can submit them, but when it goes to the ground he is one of the best at putting people away and taking little to no damage! Maybe Fedor should take some boxing lessons from him.
Click to expand...
 
I'm a little confused jeht - unless you personally know Mr. Silva, all we can judge about him is what we see in the fights. We haven't seen much ground game from him - obviously he prefers to stand and has been successful there, I'm not saying that's a bad thing. So what I'm saying is: how do you know Silva's ground game is passed Fedor's, whom we've seen finish most of his fights on the ground? I have to respectfully ask if you've seen Fedor's fights?

As for Silva being the best at putting people away when it goes to the ground and not taking any damage, I seem to remember a triangle choke that put Anderson away, and a highlight reel worthy heel hook from Ryo Chonan. Compared to Fedor who's gone against the best ground fighters his weight class offers (including Big Nog, who gave A. Silva his black belt) and won. Fedor's ONLY loss was from a cut from an illegal strike - but since it was a tournament someone had to move on, and Fedor couldn't.

I want to stress that I think Anderson Silva is one of the greatest fighters in the world and dangerous in any position, but I don't think we have enough data to say something like "(Fedor's) ground fighting isn't on the same level as St piere or A. Silva" when we see mostly standing from Silva and plenty of ground from Fedor.

If you would have said Fedor's striking isn't on Silva's level, then I wouldn't have taken such an issue with this. Or if you would have said that Fedor shouldn't have top P4P status over Silva because Fedor hasn't had a top 10 fight in some 2 years, then I wouldn't have taken much of an issue. But to say that a proven striker like Silva with a few submission wins is stronger on the ground than a proven ground fighter like Fedor set off a release of hormones in my brain that make me want to argue over the internet.
 
Pyre said:
Looks like the UFC's headliner for July 19th might be Anderson Silva vs James Irvin at 205 lbs.

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2008/6/17/55374...rson-silva-vs-j
Click to expand...

I'm a little confused by this. Irvin is by no means a can, but I don't think he's at Silva's level. Silva is a big middle weight, so I don't think weight will play as much of any issue as some may think.

There are still interesting fights for Silva at MW. Okami deserves a title shot, and Silva deserves a chance to avenge a DQ loss.
 
Yeah, it seems like the UFC is setting this fight up for a big KO. Vera got matched up with an ex-IFL fighter for the co-main event.

And I agree with you about Fedor. GSP is more of a wrestler / ground & pounder. Silva tends to use his JJ defensively. A triangle body lock is nothing but defense, and its almost his signature position on the ground. Fedor is offensive from every position. His armbars from the back are almost legendary.

But in reality, arguing P4P is kind of pointless.
 
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