MX
Some may call me....Tim?!?
A lot of that may have been lost during one of the upgrades
Is Heartfelt out of business?
- Thread starter CigarStone
- Start date
hydro-terp
Active Member
I think the process is worthy of a sticky.
To be clear, they work both ways once they are calibrated?
HT
To be clear, they work both ways once they are calibrated?
HT
hydro-terp
Active Member
I have had some cracking with mine over the years. Mostly noticeable with the tubes with a spray bottle to mist as you have to get up close to get the water in past the holes in the tube. Its annoying as they leave dust in the tupperdor so I have to accommodate. Not a game changer but a nuisance.
HT
JCinPA
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Well, @CigarStone triggered another of my OCD rabbit hole adventures. I did a ChatGPT search of info on silica gel beads, and a lot of Googling. Here's what I came up with.
There are three types of silica gel beads, Type A, Type B, and buffered. Type A works in lower RH regimes, where you want things to stay dry. Type B are probably the beads Cigarstone bought and work in the cigar range of RH. Neither will desorb--give off water, they only adsorb. However, after being conditioned, apparently they stop adsorbing at a set point that they take after a prolonged period of being held at a specific RH. So while they won't push moisture back into the system, they will stop drawing water out of the system.
I do what Cigarstone does, instead of misting them I put a small dish with a paper towel or small sponge with distilled water into the system to raise the RH a bit, and if your system is well-sealed, it will stay there for an extended period of time. The third type of bead, one brand name I've come across is Art Sorb, apparently can go both ways, adsorb and desorb, but they are buffered somehow and are more expensive. Those types of beads MAY be what Heartfelt and RH Shield market, I don't know.
What I do know is I've probably conditioned the beads in my wineadore over many years to stop adsorbing at a certain RH. I put a couple of 250 cigar tubes of RH Shield in the new Craigs List fridge I recently put into service. I have a ton of spanish cedar drawers in the wineadore and they create incredible stability, I rarely have to add water to it. I have less experience with the new fridge and while there are some cedar trays and boxes in it, there is nowhere the amount of wood in it that is in the wineadore. Here is a photo of the two.
I do not plug either one in, since it is always between 60-65* F in my basement, year-round, so no jinking around with a condenser blowing cool air around inside them. You can see the two RH Shield units in the lower fridge. I have not opened either door for 3 days, and my SensorPush units tell me that the top wineadore has fluctuated only +/- 0.1% RH and the lower unit only +/- 0.2% RH over those 3 days. Not a long time to be sure, but they both seal very well, apparently.
I'm not sure buffered beads are necessary, and if you have a well-sealed coolidore or large sealed plastic containers (or fridge units like mine) I bet Cigarstone's conditioning process for his generic Type B beads will work exceptionally well. I have no idea how units in which you actually use the cooling function will affect all this. But my fridges are apparently as well-sealed as a good coolidore or large plastic sealed container.
If you are lucky enough to have a stable temp basement like I do in Pennsylvania, and well-sealed containers, Cigarstone's method is probably rock-solid and there may be no need for buffered beads, so no need to fret over the loss of Heartfelt Industries as a source. If they did, indeed, use the Art Sorb (or generic buffered beads), I suspect RH Shield is pretty much the same thing. But if I ever need another coolidore or other container I can keep in my basement, I'm definitely using Cigarstone's method. His 15 year experience with his beads certainly prove this works. I'll never buy commercial products like Heartfelt or RH Shield again.
Google conditioning silica gel for artwork rather than for cigars for more information on the subject. And this source disagrees with my ChatGPT research in that they say Silica beads can both adsorb and desorb, whereas ChatGPT said unless the beads are buffered, they can only adsorb.
www.musecc.com
Whether it can do both or only one, I sure don't know, but I do know I've used only beads in my wineador for about 6 years and very rarely have to introduce water into the system, on the order of every several months or so. It's incredibly stable. If you have a large cabinet style humidor, you're going to need a more complex electronic system, I'm sure, but for stable environments like coolidors or large tupperdore type containers or my fridges where I don't plug them in, beads are a perfectly adequate solution, and I'd have a lot of confidence in Cigarstone's method. My guess is the beads that have been in my wineadore are very well-conditioned, serendipitously, because I sure as hell knew nothing about all this when I set it up.
Many thanks to Cigarstone for this. I'll post back how often I need to add water to these fridges over time, but they are pretty rock solid right now.
There are three types of silica gel beads, Type A, Type B, and buffered. Type A works in lower RH regimes, where you want things to stay dry. Type B are probably the beads Cigarstone bought and work in the cigar range of RH. Neither will desorb--give off water, they only adsorb. However, after being conditioned, apparently they stop adsorbing at a set point that they take after a prolonged period of being held at a specific RH. So while they won't push moisture back into the system, they will stop drawing water out of the system.
I do what Cigarstone does, instead of misting them I put a small dish with a paper towel or small sponge with distilled water into the system to raise the RH a bit, and if your system is well-sealed, it will stay there for an extended period of time. The third type of bead, one brand name I've come across is Art Sorb, apparently can go both ways, adsorb and desorb, but they are buffered somehow and are more expensive. Those types of beads MAY be what Heartfelt and RH Shield market, I don't know.
What I do know is I've probably conditioned the beads in my wineadore over many years to stop adsorbing at a certain RH. I put a couple of 250 cigar tubes of RH Shield in the new Craigs List fridge I recently put into service. I have a ton of spanish cedar drawers in the wineadore and they create incredible stability, I rarely have to add water to it. I have less experience with the new fridge and while there are some cedar trays and boxes in it, there is nowhere the amount of wood in it that is in the wineadore. Here is a photo of the two.
I do not plug either one in, since it is always between 60-65* F in my basement, year-round, so no jinking around with a condenser blowing cool air around inside them. You can see the two RH Shield units in the lower fridge. I have not opened either door for 3 days, and my SensorPush units tell me that the top wineadore has fluctuated only +/- 0.1% RH and the lower unit only +/- 0.2% RH over those 3 days. Not a long time to be sure, but they both seal very well, apparently.
I'm not sure buffered beads are necessary, and if you have a well-sealed coolidore or large sealed plastic containers (or fridge units like mine) I bet Cigarstone's conditioning process for his generic Type B beads will work exceptionally well. I have no idea how units in which you actually use the cooling function will affect all this. But my fridges are apparently as well-sealed as a good coolidore or large plastic sealed container.
If you are lucky enough to have a stable temp basement like I do in Pennsylvania, and well-sealed containers, Cigarstone's method is probably rock-solid and there may be no need for buffered beads, so no need to fret over the loss of Heartfelt Industries as a source. If they did, indeed, use the Art Sorb (or generic buffered beads), I suspect RH Shield is pretty much the same thing. But if I ever need another coolidore or other container I can keep in my basement, I'm definitely using Cigarstone's method. His 15 year experience with his beads certainly prove this works. I'll never buy commercial products like Heartfelt or RH Shield again.
Google conditioning silica gel for artwork rather than for cigars for more information on the subject. And this source disagrees with my ChatGPT research in that they say Silica beads can both adsorb and desorb, whereas ChatGPT said unless the beads are buffered, they can only adsorb.
About Silica Gel - Museum Climate Controls
Museum collections are one of a kind and contain some of the most cherished and valuable treasures around the world. It is apparent that these collections must be kept under the safest, most stable and well controlled environmental conditions possible in order to preserve them. The best...
www.musecc.com
Whether it can do both or only one, I sure don't know, but I do know I've used only beads in my wineador for about 6 years and very rarely have to introduce water into the system, on the order of every several months or so. It's incredibly stable. If you have a large cabinet style humidor, you're going to need a more complex electronic system, I'm sure, but for stable environments like coolidors or large tupperdore type containers or my fridges where I don't plug them in, beads are a perfectly adequate solution, and I'd have a lot of confidence in Cigarstone's method. My guess is the beads that have been in my wineadore are very well-conditioned, serendipitously, because I sure as hell knew nothing about all this when I set it up.
Many thanks to Cigarstone for this. I'll post back how often I need to add water to these fridges over time, but they are pretty rock solid right now.
Last edited:
JCinPA
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Unrelated, or maybe tangentially related to this discussion, I know I'll never get a large humidor display cabinet setup, reading about the hassles folks have had getting them to work properly with complex humidification systems. Sealed fridges (not plugged in), coolidores, and Tupperdores are the way to go if you have a temperature stable environment for them. Soooo much easier to maintain.
The only upgrade in which data was lost was when we first started in 2000. Forum software sucked back then, and I had no choice but to start fresh in Jan 2001 when I needed to upgrade as the original software couldn't handle the traffic.
There should not be any data gaps since then, except for a brief server crash (again early on) which resulted in a month or so of lost data. Now we're on some pretty hefty equipment in a tier 1 data center, with redundant backups and lots of security. It's like Fort Knox, except we have the cigars...
CigarStone
For once, knowledge is making me poor!
JCinPA
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Hmmmm. I’ll do that. I thought the paper towel would just increase surface area for evaporation, but it’s not really needed. Never thought of it as being a vector for anything, but makes sense.
I’m really glad to have found out about colloidal silver here, too.
P.S. I reread that linked article above, and Cigarstone’s method is spot-on. I’m kind of flummoxed why this is not talked about more often, and I can’t for the life of me figure out what the fascination with cat litter was when the stuff he uses is not expensive nor scented. Weird. Terrific article, and many thanks to CS for posting about this.
I’m really glad to have found out about colloidal silver here, too.
P.S. I reread that linked article above, and Cigarstone’s method is spot-on. I’m kind of flummoxed why this is not talked about more often, and I can’t for the life of me figure out what the fascination with cat litter was when the stuff he uses is not expensive nor scented. Weird. Terrific article, and many thanks to CS for posting about this.
JCinPA
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Another, more comprehensive article, I have not digested this yet. Plain silica gel works, I’m trying to determine what the advantage is (if any) of something like Art Sorb. In tupperdores or well-sealed cooliders the Amazon stuff is fine. If used in leakier environments, the higher priced stuff may be indicated.
publications.gc.ca
Information archivée dans le Web | Information Archived on the Web
MX
Some may call me....Tim?!?
I might have my forums confused then. Sorry was not throwing shade.The only upgrade in which data was lost was when we first started in 2000. Forum software sucked back then, and I had no choice but to start fresh in Jan 2001 when I needed to upgrade as the original software couldn't handle the traffic.
There should not be any data gaps since then, except for a brief server crash (again early on) which resulted in a month or so of lost data. Now we're on some pretty hefty equipment in a tier 1 data center, with redundant backups and lots of security. It's like Fort Knox, except we have the cigars...
One forum I was on migrated to a new software and hosting.
Stuff prior to a date in 2008/9 was lost or at least not accessible anymore.
kann
One Leg Of Fury.
Just lick them and get it over with...
JCinPA
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@CigarStone
I'm so grateful you restarted the discussion about programming beads. Based on earlier posts, you may be finished with your programming? Would you mind posting results since?
As a certified cheap bastard, I'd rather do your method than buy them. But for those who want to just buy them, my 4-5 weeks with the RH Shield product in my two beverage coolers has proven them to be extremely stable. If Heartfelt is, indeed, out of business and not just taking a sabbatical, I heartily endorse RH Shield available direct or on Amazon.
I'm so grateful you restarted the discussion about programming beads. Based on earlier posts, you may be finished with your programming? Would you mind posting results since?
As a certified cheap bastard, I'd rather do your method than buy them. But for those who want to just buy them, my 4-5 weeks with the RH Shield product in my two beverage coolers has proven them to be extremely stable. If Heartfelt is, indeed, out of business and not just taking a sabbatical, I heartily endorse RH Shield available direct or on Amazon.
Yes and no. I have a very nice, large, cooled, humidified cabinet and have exactly one environment to monitor. I watch the RH and every three months or so, I add DI / Ag solution. Pretty simple. I've always thought it was a luxury, rather than a pain in the ass. As they say, one man's opinion......
CigarStone
For once, knowledge is making me poor!
Sure, once I took the bowl of water and fan out they seemed to be a little bit high. I put a bunch of 65% Boveda packs in and left them sit for a month and then divided them up equally and put them in my three coolidors.
Everything has been perfectly stable for about 3 weeks now.
JCinPA
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There is that. If you do get it perfectly set up, it’s one environment to monitor. Not several.
I do admit when I saw the big wine cooler @hydro-terp posted, I was tempted by it. But my two smaller units are stable now. I’m not going to give in to a temptation to upsize. I hope.
Still. One big environment has a compelling appeal.