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Please Remember Them

Nice post Joe.
It is friendly here for sure. The only other place that is like it really is ASC which I have been a member since 96'.

I'm not trying to piss anyone off, just debate.
But we probably should end it though and get back to real disussion: whether or not to leave the cello on or not!!!


Michael
 
Geez you guys are touchy. Sit back, have a smoke - relax a bit.

Take a deep breath.

Count to ten.

Now you may reply :)
 
You are so right Joe, no reason to get into pissing matches about the exercising of the one right we all cherrish (Freedom of Speach) ???

Especially since I started this thread only as a passageway to remembering and honoring those lives lost. :love:

It is a shame however that it wasn't left as such, a shame that somebody fealt the need to turn it into what it became. :angry:

But oh well, live and learn ???
 
me personally, i'm too complex to be put in "left wing" or "right wing"
i'm more libertarian, i guess. i think as thomas jefferson once said
"the government that governs least, governs best." i'm against
gun control, but pro "legalization"(i don't smoke it, i just don't think
the government should tell us we can't) the "patriot act" scares the
hell out of me, but i'm against quotas and set asides. i call the naacp
the national association against constructive people. i don't fit neatly
into a catagory.i support everyone's right to speak their peice.
mike is right about afghanistan. where do you think they got Stinger
shoulder fired missles. we supported them against the russians. also,
we supported saddam against iran. but circumstances change. when
the weapons get turned against us or our allies, we must then take
action against the very people we once supported.

that being said, when this thread first started, it was a memorial to
the innocents lost on 9-11. nothing more. it wasn't a sweeping
endorsement of our current military actions abroad.
michael, you were wrong to come in here and taint this thread. just as
you would've been wrong to go into any commemoration of those
people and say what you did. your right to swing your fist ends where
my nose begins. you have a right to say what you feel, as i've stated
i would fight to the death to protect it. but in this thread, what was
said was offensive to the originator, and i'm sure to those who lost
loved ones. there is a place for this kind of debate. free debate
by opposing veiws is absolutely essential to a healthy democracy.
this was not a debate thread, however, it was a memorial thread.

god bless those who gave their all that horrible day.

todd
 
I know it was a memorial thread, and in theory I agree with puro. But there was more in it than just "God bless those lost."
Go back and re-read what he posted. It was about a court case that ended with a "you see that flag Mr. Reid." So it was an indictment thread that had a short memorial at the end. That's what I responded to.
So I'm not going to apologize for "tainting" this thread.,
Anytime someone spews out stuff like : AMerica love it or leave it, these colors don't run, or kill em all let God sort em out will get a response from me.

It's that type of ideogy that made bombing children in Iraq possible and then a reality. See the logic?

Back when this country was founded the idea was that the majority would rule any way they wanted, and if we all wanted to become socilaist or Nazi's as long as there were enough votes, we could. That's not the case anymore. A person can't stand up and say "I am a member of the socialist party" or "I am a Nazi" or whatever and not have a repisal from either the citizens or the govt. Hell you can't even disagree with the president. ANd the Dixie chicks didn't just get people smashing their records, they had hate mail and death threats to their families houses. That is the America we are currently living in.

Why don't you all ask yourselves why you are swimming upstream with the sheep. I'm not going to. I don't agree with Bush, or this administration, the war, the scare tactics or our involvement in it. What happens when the Puppet we put into power in Iraq gets a bug up his ass and decides to start funding a new terrroist organization?
You know who will be to blame- All the Americans who supported it. Not me, I'm not going to have that on my conscience. We should have stayed out of it. For that matter we shouldn't have created the sadam monster in the first place.
But no one wants to talk about that do they. It's so much eaiser to just go with the flow, put a red white and blue ribbon on and think were supperior.

Well I have news for everyone. Experts are predicting that in 20-40 years China will own the world economy. They will be the only super power. It will be their world. All this crap we are pulling, will come back to haunt us. The rest of the world already hates us and didn't want any part of the war, and less will want to the next time.

If our cowboy president goes after Korea, we may end up in a nuke-fest.
Michael
 
Stupid newbie error.

I am sorry for blacking the intent of this thread.

I was up too late, beer influenced, or whatever, what I attached to this thread belongs elsewhere. I screwed up.
 
Mike give it a rest and take it to another board. This is not what Cigar Pass is all about and for one am tired of seeing it. And don't give me any BS about it being your right, being on this board is a privilage not a right. So take it elsewhere please.

Sam
 
That's bull**** Sam. Your saying that because you don't agree with my take, which is OK. If someone can post something in the "lobby" that is supposed to be about "anything" as pointed out earlier, then I can respond to it.

It's takes all kinds to make up this board, and why I don't agree with some of the posts, I respect the people behind them.

Michael
 
what PB put was an indictment of TERRORISM. nothing more.
the words spoken by that judge were to inform a would-be
mass murderer that we are not afraid of his ilk, and that
they will be brought to justice for their actions. if you read
an endorsement of war into it, that is your own paranoia.
i realize it is sometimes lonely having unpopular political
views. i have many myself. i admire your courage in being
the only one here on that side of things and continuing to post.
but don't assume just because your views are different, that
they are CORRECT. we are not sheep for beleiving military force
is sometimes justified. we needed to dismantle the war machine
that had been built. there are areas of iraq that already have
the beginnings of representative government in place. progress
is being made.

do you realize, michael, that if you had espoused the
anti-government position in iraq that you have here just one
year ago, that you would have been dragged away to prison
and torture and eventually death? there is a majority in that
country that is grateful for what we have done. i realize that
your northeastern, left wing newspaper does not give you the
whole truth, just as fox only gives one side of things, but this
is true. these poor, oppressed people can breathe free for the
first time in decades. unfotunately, some civilian casualties are
inevitable with a campaign of this scope, particularly when the
despot in charge places ordinance in and around civilian gathering
places and dwellings. this in itself shows his depravity. when it is
all over, i hope we give them a day of their own, just as you asked.

this is as far as i'm going to take this. as i said, this is a memorial
thread, which i do not want to taint any further. it has already gone
so far that i don't even know if brother joe m. saw what i put about
his cousin. i just want to let you know , michael , that i see your p.o.v.
but i also have mine.

todd
 
sam, mike's got ya there. this forum is about anything.
if you're tired of hearing about it, then don't click on it.

todd
 
No, Mike I am saying that these types of debates never happened until you opened your trap on another person's thoughts about 9-11. We all have choices when we see a post we disagree with. We either start a fight as you did or you use your freedom and move onward.

What I am saying Mike if you have paid attention, if you really want to debate and fight and all the other BS then I sent you an invite of where to go so we and others can do it in a better setting instead of our friendly environment here.

What I am saying Mike, is that this is an incorrect thread to do this on. If you felt so "wronged" by the original post and just had to share you thoughts on the matter since your opinion is so important, then perhaps a better place to have done so was on your own damn thread or again as I have presented a place where such debate is encouraged and dealt with on a daily basis.

I have been here a year, which hardly qualifies me for a FOG but I can say that in that year it is rare I have seen heated debates. Why? People have either ignored those threads that offended them, wrote their own thoughts down on a particular matter on another thread. When heated debate did happen it was usually over somebody trying to sell fakes, breaking standard etiquette or down right flaming someone.

It has nothing to do with disagreeing you, it has to do with how you want the last word. It has to do with your disrepesct of others opinion that you displayed with your intial post on this thread. It has to do with that despite the efforst of people trying to de-esculate this heated debate your more than ready to step back into the fray. It does have to do that despite it being pointed out to you on a silver platter where your thoughts and opinions would get more mileage and make everyone - including you happier, you decide to stay and shoot down every post that isn't left wing.

In other words it has to do with your attitude. It sucks. Plain and simple and has nothing to do with your opinion. So find another soapbox to go stand on - some have been shared with you of where and how.

Sam
 
Oh yeah Mike, one more thing. There are those who are agreeing with you on this board. See how they handle themselves though? They aren't attacking another's viewpoint or even trying to engage in debate for the most part, they are sharing. That is why your not seeing me and others debating back with them - why? Most of us can agree that is only correct to respect another's point of view, but the minute you cross that line and show that you don;t with false accusations as you have done, then it does become personal. That's what I am talking about when I say your attitude sucks.

Sam
 
forget it sam. trying to show left wingers the truth
is like trying to teach a dog to meow: it frustrates
both of you and you have little chance of being
successful. ;)
 
Had 8 years of a liberal government with Clinton and it didn't happen :0 :p :sign:

Sorry, couldn't resit ;)

Sam
 
In all fairness to MDF,

even tho I still think he was wrong to deface my intentions, :angry:

I did snap at him badly :lookup:
Mr Devil Worshiper:
You and I have no need for further banter

So I suppose I must shoulder some blame for this mess ???
 
mikedevilsfan said:
Yeah well maybe if we were more left wing we could buy cubans legally!!
can I get a witness anyone??? no? ;)


Michael
Wasn't it John F Kennedy who signed the Embargo in 1963? I thought he was democrat.

Not positive. Please feel free to inform me if this is incorrect.
 
LuckyDawg said:
this is a memorial
thread, which i do not want to taint any further. it has already gone
so far that i don't even know if brother joe m. saw what i put about
his cousin.
todd
Sorry for not acknowledging the thought's of both you and your brother Todd, I do appreciate the kind words, thoughts and the time you took to smoke that cigar.

This has been an interesting thread to say the least, I hope everyone is big enough to see the big picture and not hold any grudges.

This type of thread would make Phil happy, he and I used to go at it like this till we were blue in the face. He was a hardened Republican and I.... Well, he would call me a fence sitter. I don't believe in "Party officiation" I vote for who I think is the better person for the job at the time. I register every year with what ever party I think is going to make a DIFFERENCE!
 
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