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R&J Pyramides fake? (not petit EL)

A

arfdog

New Member
A couple of store here have a normal-looking r&j box of 'pyramides' for sale; pretty much looks like the belicoso. this is NOT the EL Petit series. I cannot find any info on this, and wonder if these are a new product, a renamed belicoso, or a scam.

Are these a legit R&J size?
 
RyJ does make a Belicosos. It is a legitimate vitola de salida from the campañas vitola de galera (5.5" x 52rg).

Wilkey
 
right, but do they make a cigar with the name (not style/size) 'pyramides?' that is what I am seeing; I am familiar with belicosos but have never seen this 'pyramides' before and am not seeing it on any of the mail order sites either, thus wondering if it is a fake size.

I don't have a pic (stores don't like this for some reason) but the box says pyramides, not belicoso.
 
With the name (vitola de salida) "pyramides," no. It's particularly fishy as the proper spelling of the term is "piramides." I'd love some samples if you're game to pick up a few. I'm sort of a collector and student of counterfeit Habanos.

Wilkey
 
hi, if you pm me i might be able to track down a sample....fwiw it did have an i not a y, my error, but I was pretty sure this was bogus. i also am pretty sure i have just bought a fake siglo vi there, last 3 inches reveal no whole leaves and a lot of loose cut filler. 3rd store i have found with major problems.
 
If you are talking about the box of 5 pirimidas( the one with 5 differnet brands), then yes it is pirimida, othere then that no.
 
Right,

As far as I know, that cigar is not sold in dressed boxes of 25 outside of that Seleccion Piramides sampler.

Wilkey
 
arfdog said:
A couple of store here have a normal-looking r&j box of 'pyramides' for sale; pretty much looks like the belicoso. this is NOT the EL Petit series. I cannot find any info on this, and wonder if these are a new product, a renamed belicoso, or a scam.

Are these a legit R&J size?
Click to expand...

BTW, where is this store located and is it a LCDH? If you're here in the US, then you should not be surprised that the sticks you've been buying are fakes.
 
Strayvector said:
BTW, where is this store located and is it a LCDH? If you're here in the US, then you should not be surprised that the sticks you've been buying are fakes.
Click to expand...

store is in panama, have seen the box at 2 stores carrying known fakes.

the LCDH here has some fakes also but not this one IIRC.

curiously all these fakes have smaller than normal size warranty seals. surprises me that with all the trouble they go through they wouldn't copy the seal size (unless hbnos has shrunk seal size recently).
 
Ginseng said:
Right,

As far as I know, that cigar is not sold in dressed boxes of 25 outside of that Seleccion Piramides sampler.

Wilkey
Click to expand...

Seems that I have read that they HAVE released the R&J Piramides in dress boxes of 25. I could be wrong and will try to find the source of this, but they might indeed exist. I know this tickles my brain, I just need to figure out why. :blush:
 
Wow,

Scot, do let us know if you find that reference. I don't recall reading that but then again I wouldn't be surprised. If this is true, wouldn't this make RyJ the only marca to have both a piramides and a campañas in the regular production lineup?

Wilkey
 
RyJ piramdes were supposed to be one of the first two years of ELs made. They didn't turn out to be what Habanos SA wanted, but they still boxed them and sold them to limited markets. I believe almost all went to the middle east. These were not labeled as ELs, just with the regular RyJ red band. They were the same size as Montecristo #2s, so they were true piramides. So, there are some out there and from what I remember were not very good considering tey were being sold at quite a high price.

Now, onto your source. If this is the store in Panama I am thinking of, they are fakes or at least I would make that assumption. He has always had stuff that wasn't available elsewhere, somehow. This goes back 7-8 years. So, I personally wouldn't trust it.
 
As a follow-up to the proliferation of fakes in Panama, up to and including the LCDH franchise store, I spent some time with a salesman at a local store with the largest range of the current fakes, those with no factory codes and over-burnt box bottoms with illegible microprint on the seal, as well as poorly cut or uncut, poorly fitted cedar sheets inside. He said the actual cuban embassy in panama was selling these fakes (he knew they were fakes). I suspect this very extensive line of fakes was simply resold here as a side-business while the real goal is getting them into europe (remember the huge confiscation in paris in august came from Panama). It would not surprise me in the least to learn the cuban government was involved indirectly in the fakes business, they are certainly the best equipped to move and promote product.

Corruption is a way of life in almost all of the world, but it is annoying to no longer have any reliable way to find authentic product, even in LCDH franchise stores.
 
arfdog said:
As a follow-up to the proliferation of fakes in Panama, up to and including the LCDH franchise store, I spent some time with a salesman at a local store with the largest range of the current fakes, those with no factory codes and over-burnt box bottoms with illegible microprint on the seal, as well as poorly cut or uncut, poorly fitted cedar sheets inside. He said the actual cuban embassy in panama was selling these fakes (he knew they were fakes). I suspect this very extensive line of fakes was simply resold here as a side-business while the real goal is getting them into europe (remember the huge confiscation in paris in august came from Panama). It would not surprise me in the least to learn the cuban government was involved indirectly in the fakes business, they are certainly the best equipped to move and promote product.

Corruption is a way of life in almost all of the world, but it is annoying to no longer have any reliable way to find authentic product, even in LCDH franchise stores.
Click to expand...

I don't see why the Cuban government would have an incentive to devalue their brands by clogging the market with fakes. I think the cigar shop owner is lying out of his ass but was giving you a good story so you don't report him - you absolutely SHOULD report him to Habanos SA or Altadis.
 
"I think the cigar shop owner is lying out of his ass but was giving you a good story so you don't report him - you absolutely SHOULD report him to Habanos SA or Altadis."

this was a staff employee i have dealt with in the liquor department for years. the store doesn't really have a dedicated cigar person, it is mainly wines and liquor/beer.

it is good to recall that there is apparently a large operation moving fakes through panama, recalling that the paris confiscation passed through here. Obviously it is well-organized. This simply couldn't happen under the nose of the cuban embassy at this level; the effort is quite flagrant.

it might be the store owner has lied to their employees, but my gut is that this employee believes what he said. He even discussed another client who came in with the same complaints I had, and even more detail on fake tells on the boxes, etc.

Nothing involving public corruption here surprises me, and even less from another banana republic embassy, even isom. I think to people who haven't lived someplace like this, it boggles the mind when they realize how open and pervasive it is.
 
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