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Sense of Entitlement......

Heading to hell in a hand basket. Kids think they will make what their parent make right out of college. some thing right out of college.

I am college educated and have worked two jobs to make ends meet for 9 years. Usually when someone says they are broke and I suggest a second job they look at me like I am crazy.

No work ethic either.
 
Not trying to be argumentative, but I've worked with as many whiney and useless youngsters as I have apathetic and useless olds. My opinion on the root cause: many companies let people get away with this and have created a culture where this sort of thing is implicitly allowed and essentially passes for normal.

Currently, I've got the benefit of working in a small organization where this kind of attitude is very rare or unheard of. We have our own culture issues, to be sure, but nothing at the level you described. Man - I love working in a place where I don't want to strangle everyone on a daily basis... ;)

Be strong Floyd, and either teach the punk some manners or figure a way to remove him. You will never solve this problem overall, but we can all do something to remove it from our teams, departments, or maybe individual companies - and it all starts with kicking people in the butt one person at a time (which can be literal - or take the form of more gentle persuasion, ;)). In other words, I feel for you... but think you should go fix the little **** or excise him (or get someone else to excise him). Ironically, I have seen some people that - after fired for the first time - do turn around (yeah, I know - for every one that turns around - 5 keep right on going).

Cheers,

- Oak
 
FOGS feel free to delete this if it is too contraversial but I thought it related to this thread as a story. Not intended as a political post.... It is printed here exactly as I heard it and not intended to start a political thread.
.............................................................................................
Heard this on the radio and thought it applied here:

A very successful father who was a conserative had a daughter who was of college age. His daughter took pride in the fact that she considered herself an extreme liberal in spite of her father who she thought was out of touch, ignorant, too rich, and didn't have compasion for the less fortunate. The father and daughter always were at odds because of this.

Upon her coming home one weekend her father asked her how she was doing in class. She replied that she was doing quite well making straight A's but that she was concerned about her roommate who was flunking several classes.

The father decided to make a point and suggested that she approach the college dean on Monday and have half of her grade points given to her room mate and they would both then have a C average.

"I work really hard for my grades and that would not be fair" she replied. " My roomate parties all the time. " "I study hard and deserve my grades and she deserves the F's she is getting because she doesn't work hard and apply herself like I do."

The father, with great pleasure, replied. "Welcome to the Republican Party sweetie."
 
I'm only 25 but here are my thoughts:

I think RESPECT and INTEGRITY are the most important qualities a person can have. There is one reason that I (and I'm sure the rest of you) strive to have these qualities....MY PARENTS. Until the day I die I will say "please", "thank you", and "no sir" or "yes sir". I will also open doors, give my seat to a female and help little old ladies cross the road if need be. I also know that I will "reap what I sow". Thanks mom and dad.

I too am a High School teacher. These kinds of qualities are definitely lost on a majority of my students. Many of them lack respect not only for authority but for each other. Some of this is blatant and some more subtle like talking during the pledge of allegiance or prayer (oh yeah, it's a catholic school) which pisses me off. They also want to do the least possible just to get by "when your not forced to meet a higher standard you strive for mediocrity". This shows not only academically but in the way they speak and present themselves. Unfortunately some of them will grow up and become those who feel they are entitled to everything they want regardless of wether or not they deserve it. I try to teach them respect when ever possible but it all comes back to the same thing...MOM and DAD.

Hopefully if there are enough people setting an example others will catch on and "pay it forward"
 
My second job is at a public highschool. It is pretty common throughout the country ??? :(
 
This very subject has been a bur under my saddle for a number of years. :angry:

Yes, I agree that it starts at home with Mom & Dad. But the 'one begat another' is just an excuse. Everyone is responsible for their own actions or lack thereof.

And I hear ya Floyd about the pricks who want it all, RIGHT NOW.
 
dixieland_conjunction said:
For the sake of fairness...(please don't kill me)

This is not the absolute, but a generalization.

There are some young folks (or at least one :) )
I agree Dixi.

I was at a friends house last Sat for Game nite. She is a single Mom with 2 teenagers. Being a lifelong single guy, I am not up on things, but I think it is unusual for teenagers and their parents (and parents friends) to have family game nite (or movie nite), so thats good.

In general they are good kids, but even they could use some work on manners. They are not mean or anything, but at times they barely acknowledge their elders. Example: When the nite was over, there was no goodby etc. They just leave the room. Sometimes I'm there when they come home from school, and I say Hi, but they just walk past me.

On the other hand, another teenager was at game nite, a son of another friend, and when it was time to go, he came up to me and shook my hand to say goodby. I wished him luck on his vists to colleges that he is going on with his mom, and he says thank you. So, there are some great kids out there.
 
You guys make valid points. No one likes to have to carry the weight of another. Also, no one likes people who do not appreciate what they have or those who do not expect to work for what they have.

However Comma...

If everyone was perfect... we "good people" would really have it bad. Let's just take a moment and imagine life where everyone was perfect...

You're driving along and you get hungry. You see the Golden Arches and pull in. You wait and wait at the drive-up menu but no one ever answers. Why? Because everyone is perfect and everyone is the CEO of a HUGE corporation. These Perfect CEO's don't have anyone to work for them nor anyone to manage. Why? Because everyone is a CEO. There are no workers because everyone is perfect. No one is producing anything but hey... everyone's perfect.

There will always have to be people to pick up our garbage and do the jobs the we are too perfect to do.

I say... let the sorry asses (young and old) be as bad as they want to be. This just allows less competition for you and me. Smile at them and know that they are helping America. You should find it almost comicle because you know that there will always be garbage men and hamburger flippers.
 
I think there is a fine line that needs to be addressed: These snotty young brats may just be smarter than they appear. What levels of college degree do they hold? Bachelors, masters, or Ph.Ds? Because if we are talking about higher level graduates, they very well may get the higher pay first and pay their dues later. That is just they way the world is turning. We've been through the ice age, stone age, bronze age, iron age, middles ages, the renaissance, exploration, age of industrialization, the World Wars, the Cold War, and now folks - we are in the Information Age. (you HS teachers can double-check my chronology :p . And I must be missing a bunch!) But the point is, our fathers and our fathers' fathers, used their hands. They worked their asses off for little pay. They had to fight for their salaries (ie. jobs were tight) and often that meant working harder than the next guy. Today, is different. If a company won't pay a competitive salary to a master's graduate, there is a company elsewhere that will. And the graduates know that. Today's market IS high-level education and there is a good reason for that too. The world is being driven by advanced technology and it doesn't matter how many years you have under your belt at an organization - unless you take the classes that are teaching the new revolutionary ideas (this goes for businessmen as well as engineers) you fall behind. This is stuff that doesn't come with experience because the ideas behind it are coming on too fast. Where I work, for instance, the people who are constantly bitching are the old guys who think that they have to much experience to have to learn something new. And that mentality henders their promotion. It has to; because their experience must change with the times. And the new information is only going to come faster and faster. For instance, did you know that companies have been holding back on wireless electronics? That's right. For the last 10 (or so) years the govt and these companies have been anticipating a saturation of the limited bandwidth available for wireless transmission. However, new IDEAS and communication TECHNIQUES (include spread-spectrum among others) give promise to doubling and tripling usage of the available spectrum. What that means is this: in the next 10 years the new wireless phones, portable internet devices, satellite radio, tv, Bluetooth devices, and other such gadgets will be coming in at an enormous rate. Companies will stop holding back. If any of you have heard of Moore's Law - experts expect the new wireless onslought to have its characteristics. So, companies that are in the business obviously must ensure that their employees keep up with the current state of the art. But, even companies that are not in the business won't be able to avoid its impact. People simply need to keep up (to some extent). And that is what makes new graduates attractive to today's businesses. New graduates have been (intellectually) raised on these new ideas and concepts.

You are never too old to learn. This is the concept that America most often ignores. I wrote a paper for the accreditation review board for the University of Alabama about a 1.5 years ago that regarded "Lifelong Learning." It was the hardest paper I've ever written because there are no resources for this topic! England has a huge society dedicated to it; America has barely heard of it.

One last thing - And this is where the old guys have a strong advantage. In my job (electrical) noise is everything. I am always attempting to determine what types of noise is in a system, how to reduce the noise, or how to avoid it. Here is how it breaks down (an older (great) guy at work told me this. Some of y'all have probably heard this. (I think Rumsfeld said it. But it applies perfectly to the search for noise types.)) -

There are three things to consider: there are...
known knowns - things that we know we know
known unknowns - things that we know we don't know
and unknown unknowns - things that we don't know we don't know. It is this last one that really hurts us. And only experience will promote us to the known unknowns.


anyway, I'm done. Bring on the hate mail!

PS. None of this is to say, by the way, that I am in disagreement with anything thus far written. In fact, I am not. ****ty kids are ****ty kids, but in this day and age they may just be smarter than we give them credit for. ???
 
Wascal said:
Most of it comes down to $25.00 a week allowances, NEW cars to drive to school, $150.00 sneakers.......! You can't hand a kid everything they want then expect them wait for the perks of long time employment. You can't let your kids listen to music about drugs, sex, and violence, idolize famous people that use drugs, have indiscriminate sex and commit violence.
If you have no control of your kids they won't respect you, and if they don't respect you they absolutly will not respect any one else. The really scary part of this is the ones we complain about are raising the next generation.
I just went back and read this again today. I have become my Father :0
 
Just remember that those drug taking, free love, rock-n-roll, anti-war hippies of the 60's are now running things. I'm sure the WWII generation that raised them thought the world was ending too.
 
oak said:
Ironically, I have seen some people that - after fired for the first time - do turn around (yeah, I know - for every one that turns around - 5 keep right on going).   
The turning point of how I learnd the value of necessities (not associated with a job):

I suppose looking back to my childhood you could say that I was spoiled - not becasue I thought I should have everything, but because I just always did and didn't realize there could be a time I wouldn't. My dad was loaded, but my mom made a VERY modest living at her agency.

My mom has had a horrible back for 15 years and in the same day the doctor finally told my parents she'd really need lots of help and to never lift anything above her head (think about how often you do this daily), my dad announced he wanted divorce. They tried to work it out - living on oposite ends of the house, but shortly later, when I was 11, my dad just abandoned my mom and me without warning (we didn't know where he was for a couple months). Fast-forward a year- my dad was now pretending to be poor :lookup: and my mom and I really were. She and I lived in a safe apartment, so that didn't leave much money for food, clothes, etc.



Cheers,
Dixie
 
On a side thread jack.....

Did anyone else read Maggs44's post all the way through (very confused) before realizing it wasn't Sir-Smokes that worte it? :p

Cheers,
Dixie
 
gatorsmg said:
I too am a High School teacher.
The guys who said what they did to me were high school teachers as well. Scary that they are teaching kids.
 
Gunpowder said:
FOGS feel free to delete this if it is too contraversial but I thought it related to this thread as a story. Not intended as a political post.... It is printed here exactly as I heard it and not intended to start a political thread.
.............................................................................................
Heard this on the radio and thought it applied here:

A very successful father who was a conserative had a daughter who was of college age. His daughter took pride in the fact that she considered herself an extreme liberal in spite of her father who she thought was out of touch, ignorant, too rich, and didn't have compasion for the less fortunate. The father and daughter always were at odds because of this.

Upon her coming home one weekend her father asked her how she was doing in class. She replied that she was doing quite well making straight A's but that she was concerned about her roommate who was flunking several classes.

The father decided to make a point and suggested that she approach the college dean on Monday and have half of her grade points given to her room mate and they would both then have a C average.

"I work really hard for my grades and that would not be fair" she replied. " My roomate parties all the time. " "I study hard and deserve my grades and she deserves the F's she is getting because she doesn't work hard and apply herself like I do."

The father, with great pleasure, replied. "Welcome to the Republican Party sweetie."
For the sake of balance, let's continue the parable:

A week later, after attending a pro-life rally, writing letters to her
senators asking that they oppose gay marriage, and picketing Head-Start,
she ran into her Uncle Monkey. Believe it or not Uncle Monkey was even
more successful than her father. He asked her how school was going and she
replied that it was going great she was getting straight 'A's from her
prestigious university which shamed many of the local colleges. Uncle
Monkey made a suggestion, "Why don't you share your good grades ('cause
graded are like hard currency) with the local colleges so that they look
better and can attract more students. "Oh, that wouldn't be right" she
said, "My prestigious university has held to it's excellent academic
principles for a very long time and earned its fame."
Uncle Monkey replied "Darling, welcome to the Libertarian Party!"

A few years later, after graduating from College with a major in business
administration, she went to visit her mother. Her mother and father had
divorced when she was twelve because her mother wanted her teaching career
back and her father thought a mother's place is at home. Her mother asked
her how work was going and she just about exploded explaining how, although
she often worked 70 hour weeks, on several occasions she was passed over
for a promotion and a man was hired for the position from outside of the
company.
Her mother replied "Welcome back to the Democratic Party..."


Moral of the story: Parables are always written with the end in mind.
 
Boy, this is a slippery slope.

Take it all w/ a grain of salt. What's wrong w/ kids making what their parents did right out of college? It has to happen due to the cost of living. What's wrong w/ a smart, succesfull, young person feeling good about it? They earned it. They just earned it faster than you. Don't be bitter.

Respect for your elders...I pay it when it's due. I don't respect someone simply because they are old. I respect people who are worldly, well educated (this doesn't always have to do w/ college), and thoughtful. If that person happens to be younger than me, so be it. This is rare though, due to my age.

Respect on goofy little chat forums and such? I dunno'. I'm not going to respect someone simply because they have X number of posts. That's ridiculous. I'll respect those who are curteous to me, just as I would hope they would respect me if I was curteous to them. I'm not going to idolize anyone though, that's for sure. I live in the real world and choose to visit the virtual world. Not vice-versa. I can't say that for everyone.

As far as the political banter: we all need something to bicker about, right :)
 
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