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The Cops in California, we are hurt once again....

Z

ZitiForBreakfast

New Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2003
Messages
7
First of all, with me being a newbie smoothie here let me say a few things. One, I am very, very conservative. But, I am very critical of the police force for those who do not know. I am a veteran who has been in some tough situations while armed in hostile lands, and have pulled the trigger, and have not. I know that hostile times and the heart rate have an enormous toll on the decision making process. To do the right thing relies on training and the ability to figure out what is going on.

I am very disturbed with the ruling today. I feel that since 9/11, people of the Police force are ALL marked as heroes just because they have chosen to do what they do. With the video we have seen of someone's rights being taken away and abused, I feel someone needs to pay for that. I know, I know that the alleged victim was put there because he broke the law or was thought to have. But when handcuffed surrounded by police officers, this man is no threat. To actually believe that he was squeezing the nut sack of the Cop is damn right outrageous.

We took another step back today. I do not feel sorry for the person who was attacked by the Cops, as proven on the video. I do feel sorry for the Cop who wrote the false report and for the cop who punched the man. They have no honor, no integrity and no shame. They will get theirs, one day, one way.

To see the smirk on the cops face was pathetic, and sad. The high fives they will be given to each other in locker room will not be aired, but it will further drive home the fact that the Police are granted permission to take away our right and liberties and not pay for doing so. I see it here where I live, I see it around the country and we see it on our TV's.

Sad.
 
Ummmm, I hate to post my ignorance, but what are you talking about? ???
 
Is anyone suprised? :lookup:

For some reason, it reminded me that the majority of 'questionable' characters from my H.S. class of '77 either became cops, are in jail, or are dead. No B.S.
 
You make some good points in your post. I would especially agree with the statement that someone cuffed and apprehended is not a danger if you add "usually" to the statement. There have been and will be plenty who are dangerous with cuffs on (although it usually involves drugs in their system.)

I may be in the minority here, but I must argue on the side of exercising caution in this case. Among the very rights many of us (including those cops) are fighting to protect is the right to a fair trial. One of the cornerstones of America's foundation is the ideal of "innocent until proven guilty without cause for reasonable doubt." Each citizen has the right to counsel, the right to present evidence in their defence, and the right to counter any evidence presented by a prosecuting body.

I have not seen the video, unfortunately. Yet, we must be cautious and understand that (whether we like it or don't like it) the press will report and distribute sensationalistic "news" to incite curiosity and loyalism in their brand and product.

I submit to each of you that despite the "obvious" nature of the evidence, we have only been privy to a VERY SMALL amount of the total evidence and are only aware of the picture painted by a press that wants to draw your "customership." There was a jury of at least 12 persons hearing all of the evidence presented in prosecution and in defence and apparently, there was enough evidence (or lack thereof) to ensure "reasonable doubt" as to the defendants' participation in a crime.

Usually, in a high profile case, no sane judge (especially given the level of interest and current environment) would declare a "hung" jury if only one or two members weren't convinced after such a short time. Three days of deliberation really is not all that long for a difficult case. I surmise the jury must have been fairly evenly split after only three days for the judge to declare.

It has become all too common practice for many of our citizens to assume blame or guilt without receipt of all the evidence or facts. I feel it's an unfortunate turn for the country to have made and is evidence of our continued fall down the "slippery slope" of degradation. I just ask that we give the judge, jurors, defendants and especially the police the same benefit of doubt we would hope to have should we each be wrongly accused of a crime.

Were they wrongly accused? Were they guilty? I bet no one reading this post really knows.
 
Very well stated, Muley!

Generally, I will stick up for Vets as well as Police Officers since I am in both categories. However, I take offense to some of what you had to say, Ziti.

If I were to judge you as a Vet based on the "reports" which came out of the Viet Nam war, I would simply classify you as a "baby killer", killer of women and children and basically having done this country no good. This is what some of the news sources declared during the Viet Nam war. From a more recent scenario, the Iraq war is looked upon by many news sources as unneccessary and are stating the "war machine" is killing innocent people at check points and the like. And most recently, the servicemen accused of abusing the prisoners of war. So does that mean ALL servicemen are condoning this?! I say no!!

Now, is it fair to stereotype you as one of "them"? I submit it is not. All cops are not heroes and are not touted as being such. Sure, there was a degree of sentiment spread about after Sept. 11th, however, it died down relatively quickly. Remembering the videos of the cops and firemen running "toward" the towers as everyone else was running away portrays what we do every day. For that, we earn a living. We aren't expecting a "label" or special consideration. However, when we do make a decision, and it is undermined by a "video" showing seconds of what has gone on and usually only one angle, it serves only one purpose. It aids the CRIMINALS in their cause. They know, until caught, they can do anything they want and then once caught, act as though "they " are the victims.

Unless you have first hand knowledge of the "nut sack" incident, speculation is as useless as the fractional video. I can guarantee you this, if someone grabbed you by the "nut sack", you would have reacted in similar fashion. And if you are saying hitting him or bouncing him off of the car isn't exerting "reasonable" force to get him to quit, you are again mistaken. So it rung his bell a bit or gave him a black eye. Damn, he should be a criminal. He shouldn't have run from the police and shouldn't have alledgedly "assaulted" the police officer holding him.

I have given up certain rights to live in the wonderful Country I live in. These rights allow the police to do their job. Sure, there are going to be bad cops as there are bad doctors, bad servicemen and bad judges. They are few and far between. However, what is being done in California and other parts of America is causing law enforcement to take a second look. If we can fight the criminals with a "bit" more force than they use against us, how are we supposed to win the battle? You use force equal to and just a bit more to overcome the force used against you, is how we are trained. People react differently in similar situations. Until we can recreate the exact situation, in a trial setting, you're going to have to live with the alledged "lies" the police are spreading.

Believe this, if you are a criminal and are told to stop by the police, STOP! If innocent, you will not be shot, beaten, stabbed, etc. If you run from the police, there is a chance the aforementioned things may occur. If you assault a police officer, accept that fact you will also be assaulted. We are allowed to defend ourselves as well as others.

All of this being said, I'm not passing judgement on the case you have issues with. Until YOU have heard all of the evidence, listened to the testimony and been present to listen to the prosecution and defense, you're not qualified to render a decision on what actually took place. Think rationally and not emotionally. Yea, y'all have problems out there, however, y'all have a large majority of the force that are great people doing their jobs. Give them the benefit of the doubt.

If they cops in the video are guilty, send them to prison. If they are found not guilty, let them live theri lives accordingly. And let the SYSTEM work!!!


Floyd T. :sign:
 
I was not going to add my comments to this post, 'cause I felt I would have been the only one with my view and with what I would say, I would probably be kicked off the board!

BUT

All I will say is thank god people think & see things for what they are, like Muley & SKYDIVNEKD! Thank you.
 
Well I find that most of what has been said in this thread to be thoughtfully and intelligently said, while I do not agree with what you said Ziti, I respect your right in saying it. I being someone in the public safety field (ie. fire dept) I am slightly prejuditial(sp) towards peace officers. Even though you did bring up some fair points, as did Sky, and Muley, I will not pass judgement for or against those officers until I have full knowledge of what exactly did happen, it has become so easy lately for the general public to lambast individuals in power, when they are found innocent, thinking that what ever happened they caused it and where at fault, this is generally what is known as the conspiracy theory. Now don't get me wrong, if this officer is found guilty "Without a reasonable doubt." then he should be punished more severely than the general public since he is in a position of power and he abused the publics trust. Now if he is found innocent, then we should assume that the jury and the judge determined that he was not at fault, I do hope that the rest of America would do the same, but there is too many people that would jump on ther "Soap Box" and say"See they let another guilty man walk free, simply because he is an officer" or because he is white. I believe we need to put faith into our judicial system, because if we don't than that is how democracy and our primary way of life will crumble.


Thank God, I live in America where freedom of speech is a right. As shown here. :thumbs:
 
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