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Wine Cellaring Question

S

SamGuss

Active Member
Joined
Jul 9, 2002
Messages
1,907
Ok, so I am starting to get a little into wine and would like to properly store the couple of bottle I have and plan on getting in the future.

I do have a cellar below my house, but the entry way is a cubicle hole that my big a$$ has a trouble getting through. More than enough room down there but the entry way... and I am not going to be able to make it bigger or anything like that. So my celler is pretty much out of the question on the terms that the hassle factor is simply way to high.

I'm not a rick guy so buying a wine cabinet with independant cooling system is out as well at the prices they ask for for these things.

Now in cigar collecting we have the option of making coolidors, etc. that are cheaper than humidors and allows us to enjoy our collections without as a big of an investment into something holding them properly.

Is there something similar for wines?

My ideal situation is to make use of this hallway closet that is not being used but for junk storage that can go up to the attic. But it isn't cool enough in the house to cellar properly. Is there a mini cooling unit you can put into it or something?

Is there another way to cellar wine that I simply don't know of?

Or am I stuck with collecting wine but having to drink within a few months at the longest at room temp like is happening now?

Any and all advice or even links to sources of information would be appreciated.

Thanks!

Sam
 
Sam I've been into wine much longer than cigars so I think I can help you out. Much of the same rules of cigar storage apply to wine. Humidity isn't as important but it is somewhat important because you don't want the corks drying out. Temperature is, however, very important. The 3 most important things are: keep the wine cool (50-60 degrees is ideal), keep it free of vibration and keep it dark.

The cellar is really the right way to go. Think hard about enlarging that entryway and see if you can find a way to make it happen. If that's just not an option, the next best thing is an interior closet downstairs. You can get these racks where each layer stacks on the one below it and make it as big as you need. They're not fancy - unfinished pine - but they do the job and they're cheap. Set the racks up in the closet and there's your wine "cellar". Even though 50-60 is ideal if you can keep it below 70, the wine will do ok. It may age a little quicker but you do the best you can do, right? Also, if your house has A/C you could consider piping some cool air into the closet. That would help a lot - especially if you insulated the closet - but remember to turn off the vent in the winter.

They make self-contained wine closets but they're way spendy so I assume you don't want to go there.

I'll try to chase down some links for you when I get some time - watch this space. Wine Spectator is a pretty good resource - it's the sister publication of Cigar Aficianado. It's actually mostly about wine (as opposed to CA). Meanwhile, if you have any questions I'll be happy to try to answer them for you.
 
Thanks for the advice FT! The hallway closet I have been thinking would be the ideal spot and we keep the house around 70-72 degrees, so the cloest (it is an interior one) is a couple degrees cooler, but no where near the 55-60.

I might re-look into the cellar, because you are right it is more ideal. I went down into it last night to check out my options. It's a low cieling below ground cellar that house the hot water heater and pipes, but still very cool down there. After dipping the head down to negogiate a big insulated pipe is a long wall that as a wide bench along it. Would be perfect to clean off and add wine racks there. Just the hassle factor of getting on my knees and squizing myself backwards to get under the house everytime I want some wine or at least to transport some wine. Will look into seeing what I can do.

In the meantime I think the closet might be the best way to go. I don't see myself having a very large collection (course I remember saying that about cigars too and while I may not have a "large" colelction per se at the moment it is much more than I ever thought it would be LOL) or holding wine for longer than a couple of year on the turnaround (again as I get more into it this may change as well).

Long story short I appreciate your advice, will be keeping an eye on the thread here and definately discussing the subject more at length with you if and when I can. By the way, in case you didn't have it, drop me a line sometime: Samuel.Guss@usa.xerox.com

Thanks again bud!

Sam
 
Now on the subject of wine, I too have been collecting wine for about 15 years, plus it doesn,t help me any, with me living in the heart of wine country. Now as too where I store my wine, well I can't afford a wine cellar, so the next most natural spot for me is actually the garage. Yep thats right in the garage, I keep the wine in the original boxes and store the boxes under my workbench near the cement floor, this keeps my wine close to 60 to 70 degrees all year round. I don't know if it will work in your area, but it might be worth it to check. Plus wine is rather forgiving. Just remember not to have it in sunlite or in extreme heat or cold.
 
Re: the size of your collection.......HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!

It's good to age most red wines - particularly Cabs, Merlots and other wines high in tannin - a couple of years at least. In my opinion many of the best Cabernets aren't even drinkable until they've aged at least a year. But if you haven't ever had a wine that's aged 5 or more years you are in for a serious treat. I can't describe the difference. The wine changes...it becomes a different thing altogether than it was when it was young. Nothing against young wines - most wine I drink is less than 3 years old. But a ten year old Chateauneuf du Pape is just sublime.

Maybe you already know this but just in case: as wine ages the tannin in it precipitates out as sediment. The tannin is what gives young red wine that puckery, astringent taste. Tannin is found in the skins and this is why white wine doesn't have that puckery taste. Anyway, in a year or two (sometimes less) the wine will have thrown a pretty good sediment that needs to be decanted off before you drink it. If you need to know how to do this let me know. Once the tannin is gone, what's left are the soft, smooth flavors of the pure essence of wine.

By the way, not just reds benefit from aging. Maybe the best wine I ever had was a 9 year old bottle of Erdener Pralat Auslese Riesling. It was like dessert in a glass. Golden like honey and just as sweet but it still had that acidic bite to balance the sweetness.

If you want to get a book about wine, get The World Atlas of Wine by Hugh Johnson. Wine and geography are inexorably linked. Wine is more about where the grapes were grown than what kind were used or how it was made.

This brings up something I was wondering about last night...does anybody know of any forums (fora?) like this one that are dedicated to wine?
 
Also another good book, if you like California wines(and who doesn't) is "Wine Spectator's California Wine" by James Laube. THis book is rather good. The only problems that most of these books have are that they do not have info on some of the really small wineries, so the only way to find out is too actually go there and look around, Trust me this is the fun part, I go wine tasting about every other month and you would be suprised how many small wineries pop up. But most of them also disappear just as fast. If you want any info on Calif wines or specifically Sonoma wine's give me a yell. Now to my favorites. Letsd see.
South African- white wines, yep they are really good.
Washington state - Sparkling wines, and Pinot's
California - Zinfandels, Pinot's, and Viogniers. Plus some Cabernet's
Lately I have been looking at Chilean wines, they seem to be nice and light in flavor.
 
ParaGod said:
If you want any info on Calif wines or specifically Sonoma wine's give me a yell. Now to my favorites. Letsd see.
South African- white wines, yep they are really good.
Washington state - Sparkling wines, and Pinot's
California - Zinfandels, Pinot's, and Viogniers. Plus some Cabernet's
Lately I have been looking at Chilean wines, they seem to be nice and light in flavor.
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I'm not really sure what I like yet. So far I have been very hit and miss and waaayyyyy too many misses. Which was why I actually gave up on the idea of Wine collecting. The expense (even with cheaper bottles) was not worth it to me as I found soo few successes.

Last night however I attended my first wine tasting, which was held at a wine shop here in town and was suggested to me by the owner a few days earlier when I stopped in out of the blue to see if perhaps there is something I missed in my intial rush to see if it was for me.

Well I was pleasantly suprised. The people were warm and friendly and not snobs and were more excited about someone beinging there to learn and discover as a first-timer than I think I was LOL.

I tasted a couple chardonay's, a moscato, and about 4 reds. The shirah was too "strong" for me at this point, so I didn't try the remaining bigger reds that were waiting. That was all fine and dandy though because I did find a bottle through the tasting that I really enjoyed alot and too this date is the best wine I had tasted. Mind you I am very aware that my expereince is very very limited and that things can only get better, but for the first time I made an educated choice on the bottle I selected and what I liked, versus "guessing" I might like it. So it was an eye-opener for me and I am excited about attending my next wine tasting next week where I may (or may not) find another wine I really like.

The bottle I got?

Aresti's Montemar Cabernet Sauvignon 2000

The red wine is from what I can tell and experienced (which mind you isn't much LOL) is a light cabernet sauvignon, which didn't over power my young and inexperienced wine pallette (I have no doubt I will like strong reds one day, but for now they are simply "too much" for me and I don't enjoy the taste as much as I wish I could). It was fruity without being sweet if that makes sense and just tasted good to me.

The grapes for this wine are harvested from 13- to 18-year-old vines, grown in the Curico Valley in Chile. I got this bottle on sale for a mere $7.55 (tax included) and as stated before is the best tasting wine I have tasted yet. Of course at my experience level that isn't saying much :p

So, knowing how I like to collect, I am sure I will have a small but decent (for me) wine collection within a few months.

Sam
 
Check your local community college, or just around town, see if there is any wine clubs, that you can join. In my area you can go to the local college and take wine classes to help you better understand wine, but I think the classes are unique to my area since most of the classes are taught by winemakers. I have taken a few of them and loved them all.
 
FatherTiresius said:
Maybe you already know this but just in case: as wine ages the tannin in it precipitates out as sediment. The tannin is what gives young red wine that puckery, astringent taste. Tannin is found in the skins and this is why white wine doesn't have that puckery taste. Anyway, in a year or two (sometimes less) the wine will have thrown a pretty good sediment that needs to be decanted off before you drink it.
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FT, you told me more about why I can't find a wine I like with that statement better than 20 years of guessing and wishing and ignorant salespeople have done. Thank You! Perhaps I'll try again now to find something I like. :thumbs:
 
Wascal said:
FT, you told me more about why I can't find a wine I like with that statement better than 20 years of guessing and wishing and ignorant salespeople have done. Thank You! Perhaps I'll try again now to find something I like. :thumbs:
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Though kinda odd the first time (or two I imagine) you go to a wine tasting (especially someone who is big and masculine as myself - no comments from the peanut gallery) it might help too. You get to taste all these wines (the one I went to had 9 bottles out and my understanding is they do 6-18 bottles per weekly tasting) with no risk at all and only the price of admission. This place for tastings only charge $5 and the classes themselves are $25. So for $5 you get to check out all these types of wine is pretty good deal to me.

My understanding and looking at the other wine shop in this area is that the good wine shops around have regular tasting parties (not the local corner liquor store, but an actual wine merchant shop). So if you are in or around a large town or small to large city, perhaps this might be an option you will want to try out.

On the plus side at least where I went there were more women than men there :thumbs:

Course my other half was teasing me that I was displaying an OGT ??? course I did happen to call her a vanilla the other day, so I guess I had it coming ???

Sam
 
As a wine snob, er, drinker for over 30 years, I thought I'd chime in on this subject. By far the best values in the world right now are coming in from Australia. South America (especially Chile) is moving up fast. Casa Lapostolle Sauvignon Blanc, for example, is as good a white wine as you could possibly want for $10/bottle.

Don't be afraid to check out these wines - you can find them all over the place now, even in supermarkets. With so many relatively inexpensive new wines on the market, I just don't understand why prices for California wines haven't been coming down.
 
Well over the weeks I am finding that I am not a big fan of most California Wines. French, Chillie and Spain are where some of my favorites are developing. Your right about the price, most bottles I have bought were $10-$15 and all of them have tasted great to me and not like "cheap" wine. Matter of fact one whit Bordeux I like is the shiznitt and is only $12-$16 depending if I can find it on sale.

Sam
 
Have desided not to buy anymore wine till I go to a tasting or two. Bought a shirah the other day at my local Sam's, one glass with 3 sips out of the glass and poured the rest of the bottle in the sink. Was only a $10.00 bottle, but still can't afford to pour 10 bucks down the drain. Keeping in mind FT advice on the tannins this wine was a 2000. Still WAY too nasty to drink. ???
 
Wascal - the best thing I ever did was start going to wine tastings. I go, taste anywhere from 8-12 wines. Most of those I just pour right out, not appreciating the tastes - then there is about one a week (sometimes none) that I taste and I like.

I look at it as an investment. I invest $5 to find out which bottles I like or not like. At this point I have a couple "go-to" wines that if I am at a tasting that I don't like any of them I simply pick up one of these. If, it had not been for these tastings I would have probably given up on wine and now I am at a point I never buy unless I have tasted it.

Sam
 
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