And those that continue to serve in light of what you may think is Politically Correct. Had we not been in the middle of a trade, I probably would have blasted you so hard I would have got banned. Or at least a stern talking to by Rod. Regardless, that was a pretty insensitive thing you said.Leebo8-9-8 said:
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I'm going to be controversial here and ask
- Thread starter Lumberg
- Start date
PetersCreek
Codger-in-training
- Joined
- Jun 17, 2005
- Messages
- 753
I'm late on this one and I haven't read every one of the spot-on replies...so bear with me if I repeat or piggyback on your words.
Lum...my first inclination was to tell you, if I have to explain it, you wouldn't understand the answer. Instead, I'll make an attempt in the perhaps vain hope that some of it will stick.
The military...law enforcement...firefighting...the aren't "just jobs." They are ways of life in service to others, entailing great personal risk and sacrifice. I'm not talking about service as in, "You want fries with that?" I'm talking about service to the basic, visceral, and priceless commodities of freedom, justice, safety, and life itself.
"Just jobs" don't engender the esprit de corps that these vocations...and others...instill in the people who undertake them. Unlike Marines, I've never heard a Walmart worker proudly exclaim, "Once a greeter, always a greeter." How many burger flippers get a Big Mac tattooed on their arm as a sign of their profound committment to their brother flippers...instead of just a lark? How many suffer the indignity of having an elected moron use them as little more than political pawns by comparing them to Nazis? "Just job" workers don't usually get together with their brethren years...make that, decades later and reminisce (with crystal clarity) about close calls, grevious wounds, or friends who fell beside them.
Now, I'm not really trying to belittle the contributions of service workers to our society and our daily lives. However, they do suffer mightily by comparison to the vanguards of our liberty and safety. So forgive those of us who mark the passing of these people with a little more ceremony, solemnity, and honor. They have given us something for which the pay from "just doing there jobs" will never fully suffice.
Lum...my first inclination was to tell you, if I have to explain it, you wouldn't understand the answer. Instead, I'll make an attempt in the perhaps vain hope that some of it will stick.
The military...law enforcement...firefighting...the aren't "just jobs." They are ways of life in service to others, entailing great personal risk and sacrifice. I'm not talking about service as in, "You want fries with that?" I'm talking about service to the basic, visceral, and priceless commodities of freedom, justice, safety, and life itself.
"Just jobs" don't engender the esprit de corps that these vocations...and others...instill in the people who undertake them. Unlike Marines, I've never heard a Walmart worker proudly exclaim, "Once a greeter, always a greeter." How many burger flippers get a Big Mac tattooed on their arm as a sign of their profound committment to their brother flippers...instead of just a lark? How many suffer the indignity of having an elected moron use them as little more than political pawns by comparing them to Nazis? "Just job" workers don't usually get together with their brethren years...make that, decades later and reminisce (with crystal clarity) about close calls, grevious wounds, or friends who fell beside them.
Now, I'm not really trying to belittle the contributions of service workers to our society and our daily lives. However, they do suffer mightily by comparison to the vanguards of our liberty and safety. So forgive those of us who mark the passing of these people with a little more ceremony, solemnity, and honor. They have given us something for which the pay from "just doing there jobs" will never fully suffice.
Lumberg
Opus Lover
- Joined
- Oct 25, 2003
- Messages
- 3,700
The only point I am trying to make is that the selfless service is what deserves recognition; we shouldn't withold our highest accolades until a person is dead.
However to people who don't see it that way, I understand sometimes it takes the tragedy fo death to really bring home what it's all about.
However to people who don't see it that way, I understand sometimes it takes the tragedy fo death to really bring home what it's all about.
Allofus123
Here ducky, ducky, ducky!
- Joined
- Aug 25, 2001
- Messages
- 3,867
Lumberg said:
BS.... thats not the point you were making.... nice try at a new spin. Lets repeat your exact words:
You stated you give your respect and gratitude on the front end and if someone gets killed then why should anyone consider it a tragedy of extra proportions, after all, it was their job. You said something about this has been bothering you for a long time. You even singled out the military in your post with the words "especially a member of our armed forces". Anyone that believes your backpeddling post above holds an ounce of sincerity other than to save your azz from the stupidest post ever posted on CP is off their rocker. Keep looking for a hole to worm through on this one..... I'm not buying a word.
Lastly,
You're pretty full of yourself aren't you...... to surmize that one single person on this thread somehow needs the tragity of death to understand what its all about? How are you connecting those dots exactly? I don't see it your way so I need someone to die to understand? I think you've been up on the mountain just a bit too long old wise one.... the air must be thin.
Unbelievable!
BkCloud114
I hate Moochers !!!!!
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2005
- Messages
- 1,917
I think that Lumberg has learned his lesson..... he admits to making a mistake by posting this thread and apologizes for it..... Here
I think this thread should be locked otherwise it will continue to go on.
I am not saying to delete or forget what he posted..... I for one will add him to my "list"
I was contemplating doing a poll on Lumberg but reconsidered after reading emo's post..... this is a Cigar Community.... we are here for one reason and one reason only..... because we all enjoy smoking and talking about cigars. Let's continue to have a great community of cigar smokers.
We all know who the one post wonders are and they usually leave after being ripped apart in a thread..... but for people who have been here a while.... maybe you should think, for about 5 minutes, about the post you are about to submit. Think about how you might feel if you are the same ethnicity of the person in the video or the subject of the controversial question.....
I think this thread should be locked otherwise it will continue to go on.
I am not saying to delete or forget what he posted..... I for one will add him to my "list"
I was contemplating doing a poll on Lumberg but reconsidered after reading emo's post..... this is a Cigar Community.... we are here for one reason and one reason only..... because we all enjoy smoking and talking about cigars. Let's continue to have a great community of cigar smokers.
We all know who the one post wonders are and they usually leave after being ripped apart in a thread..... but for people who have been here a while.... maybe you should think, for about 5 minutes, about the post you are about to submit. Think about how you might feel if you are the same ethnicity of the person in the video or the subject of the controversial question.....
cigarsarge
BOHICA
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- Dec 29, 2003
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- 2,866
BkCloud114 said:
Amen :thumbs:
SKYDIVNEKD
Call me "Walt Kowalski"
- Joined
- Jul 24, 2001
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- 3,769
The more I thought about your original post, Lumberg, the more aggravated I became. And I’ll tell ya why.
First, let me get this straight. A man, who sits behind a desk/keyboard for a living, is calling out a group of professionals who are willing to give their lives for people they don’t know. And, in fact, calling them out AFTER they have paid the supreme sacrifice! You then have the audacity to say it’s just their job so why the big deal! You’re an idiot!
How much programming time did you lose while planning and attending the funeral of ANY of the men/women who’ve given their lives? Oh that’s right, probably none. The family members who’ll NEVER see their husband/dad/son etc. again spent that time. How much half-pipe time did you sacrifice while helping those families make ends meet because their breadwinner isn’t EVER coming home again! Once again, probably NONE! But don’t worry, the widow and her/his children take on that responsibility while trying to get their life back together. Hey, they knew what life they were getting’ into, RIGHT!?!?!
99.9% of all the men/women in uniform don’t ask for medals, special recognition, “Hero” status, etc. They do their jobs because that is what they choose to do. It is the media, and people in the community, who appreciate what has been sacrificed for them, that put forth a “little extra” to say thanks! Thanks to the family and thanks to the slain “brother” for giving us the freedoms and security we enjoy.
“…a police officer killed in a shootout with a kidnapper? Eh, unpleasant, but not anywhere near the level of the above two.” “….why the major outpouring of attention…whose job it is…so the rest of us are safe, dies?” These two statements alone, tell me what type of person you are. Attempting to explain the difference to you is a waste of time; time I am not willing to waste. This statement alone, proves you are an idiot!!
The next time you have your skateboard stolen and are too afraid to confront the thief yourself, remember this. It is YOUR responsibility to protect yourself. WE are supposed to protect society as a whole. If you are too afraid to protect yourself, THAT is a truer “Tragedy” than a dead “Man in Uniform” being called a hero!
I thought people like you just stayed home from work on Memorial Day, Independence Day etc. and slept in and then bitched because all that was on the television was soap operas and war memorial programming. If you have nothing positive to say, please keep your mouth shut! Until you are willing to trade your keyboard and skateboard in for a weapon, and protect something, other than your hard drive, STFU!!!
We don’t ask for it! We don’t want it! And if we’re dead, we have no control over it! Be thankful you have a home safe from total chaos! Be thankful you can go down to the skate park without being murdered! Just be thankful someone is willing to put his or her life on the line for you, regardless of your beliefs and opinions.
Your original post makes me sick! You make me sick! Please, STFU from now on unless you have something intelligent to offer. Otherwise, STFU!!!! :angry:
Floyd T. :angry:
PS; God bless the men and women brave enough to serve our Country! Without them, we would not be the greatest Country in the world!
First, let me get this straight. A man, who sits behind a desk/keyboard for a living, is calling out a group of professionals who are willing to give their lives for people they don’t know. And, in fact, calling them out AFTER they have paid the supreme sacrifice! You then have the audacity to say it’s just their job so why the big deal! You’re an idiot!
How much programming time did you lose while planning and attending the funeral of ANY of the men/women who’ve given their lives? Oh that’s right, probably none. The family members who’ll NEVER see their husband/dad/son etc. again spent that time. How much half-pipe time did you sacrifice while helping those families make ends meet because their breadwinner isn’t EVER coming home again! Once again, probably NONE! But don’t worry, the widow and her/his children take on that responsibility while trying to get their life back together. Hey, they knew what life they were getting’ into, RIGHT!?!?!
99.9% of all the men/women in uniform don’t ask for medals, special recognition, “Hero” status, etc. They do their jobs because that is what they choose to do. It is the media, and people in the community, who appreciate what has been sacrificed for them, that put forth a “little extra” to say thanks! Thanks to the family and thanks to the slain “brother” for giving us the freedoms and security we enjoy.
“…a police officer killed in a shootout with a kidnapper? Eh, unpleasant, but not anywhere near the level of the above two.” “….why the major outpouring of attention…whose job it is…so the rest of us are safe, dies?” These two statements alone, tell me what type of person you are. Attempting to explain the difference to you is a waste of time; time I am not willing to waste. This statement alone, proves you are an idiot!!
The next time you have your skateboard stolen and are too afraid to confront the thief yourself, remember this. It is YOUR responsibility to protect yourself. WE are supposed to protect society as a whole. If you are too afraid to protect yourself, THAT is a truer “Tragedy” than a dead “Man in Uniform” being called a hero!
I thought people like you just stayed home from work on Memorial Day, Independence Day etc. and slept in and then bitched because all that was on the television was soap operas and war memorial programming. If you have nothing positive to say, please keep your mouth shut! Until you are willing to trade your keyboard and skateboard in for a weapon, and protect something, other than your hard drive, STFU!!!
We don’t ask for it! We don’t want it! And if we’re dead, we have no control over it! Be thankful you have a home safe from total chaos! Be thankful you can go down to the skate park without being murdered! Just be thankful someone is willing to put his or her life on the line for you, regardless of your beliefs and opinions.
Your original post makes me sick! You make me sick! Please, STFU from now on unless you have something intelligent to offer. Otherwise, STFU!!!! :angry:
Floyd T. :angry:
PS; God bless the men and women brave enough to serve our Country! Without them, we would not be the greatest Country in the world!
BkCloud114
I hate Moochers !!!!!
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2005
- Messages
- 1,917
:thumbs: ---- Floyd
Maybe Lumby should have read your SigTag before he posted
Hey Lumby...... I think ya pissed off a few people this time
Maybe Lumby should have read your SigTag before he posted
Hey Lumby...... I think ya pissed off a few people this time
Lumberg
Opus Lover
- Joined
- Oct 25, 2003
- Messages
- 3,700
After re-reading all of the responses to this thread, I think I understand why it should be a big deal when someone loses their life defending my safety and freedom. Thank you to everyone who put thought into their answers, and helped me recognize why I should recognize the sacrifices of the fallen.
JimK--No one in my immediate family has died on duty.
stevehawk--great post. way to understand where I am coming from to help me understand where you are coming from. To those of you who were content to take potshots, here is an example of how to persuade.
hudsonvalley--excellent point with your last sentence.
cigarsarge--your post reminds me of one of my favorite quotes, which I mean when I say: "I do not agree with what you say, but will defend to the death your right to say it." Looks like I am on the receiving end of it this time, and it's damn humbling.
SgtDave--horrible example. I might be a NASCAR fan but I think it's pretty sick the amount of attention Dale's death got. As Savage said before, blame the media for trying to give us heroes. If you need the media to give you your heroes you're in pretty sad shape.
JimK--No one in my immediate family has died on duty.
stevehawk--great post. way to understand where I am coming from to help me understand where you are coming from. To those of you who were content to take potshots, here is an example of how to persuade.
hudsonvalley--excellent point with your last sentence.
cigarsarge--your post reminds me of one of my favorite quotes, which I mean when I say: "I do not agree with what you say, but will defend to the death your right to say it." Looks like I am on the receiving end of it this time, and it's damn humbling.
SgtDave--horrible example. I might be a NASCAR fan but I think it's pretty sick the amount of attention Dale's death got. As Savage said before, blame the media for trying to give us heroes. If you need the media to give you your heroes you're in pretty sad shape.
Lumberg
Opus Lover
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- 3,700
wam79--another excellent point. Just because it's in the realm of possibility, doesn't mean people expect it. It certainly shouldn't be treated as a foregone conclusion. Also, I agree with what you said in a later post. My tone was sententious and I made more of a statement than asked a question.
inflatus--you are right. approaching everything with logic only is a poor approach.
Allofus123--What did the majority say, and what did the lone dissenter say? My uncle told me a story about his first minutes at Marine basic training. The recruits all got asked why they joined, and most answered along the lines of "to defend my country." One answered along the lines of "to see how tough I am." A little while later a few DSs took Mr. Tough Guy behind a building and beat the crap out of him. As far as making light of my job: that's low. I am very pround of what I do. You probably couldn't do it. Nothing you say could make me feel badly about my choice of employment.
inflatus--you are right. approaching everything with logic only is a poor approach.
Allofus123--What did the majority say, and what did the lone dissenter say? My uncle told me a story about his first minutes at Marine basic training. The recruits all got asked why they joined, and most answered along the lines of "to defend my country." One answered along the lines of "to see how tough I am." A little while later a few DSs took Mr. Tough Guy behind a building and beat the crap out of him. As far as making light of my job: that's low. I am very pround of what I do. You probably couldn't do it. Nothing you say could make me feel badly about my choice of employment.
Lumberg
Opus Lover
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emo--I did not consider the calendar timing when I posted this thread. Also, why should it matter that we are in the middle of a trade? I'm good for my end, and no matter how bad we row on the forums, I expect you're good for your end.
Allofus--you're right. That's not all I was saying. It was a pathetic attempt to distill my statements to their essence. My second part was not directed to the responders of this thread, but more to the public in general, who don't think about this type of thing until reminded, and so the reminder causes the appropriate response.
Allofus--you're right. That's not all I was saying. It was a pathetic attempt to distill my statements to their essence. My second part was not directed to the responders of this thread, but more to the public in general, who don't think about this type of thing until reminded, and so the reminder causes the appropriate response.
Lumberg
Opus Lover
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Bk--I have signatures and avatars turned off so the pages load faster.
Finally, I spologize for my poor judgement in posting this thread in the first place. I did not envision this kind of fallout and charged athmosphere, and that is my fault. I should have known better.
Thanks again to those who put some thought into their responses.
Jonathan
Finally, I spologize for my poor judgement in posting this thread in the first place. I did not envision this kind of fallout and charged athmosphere, and that is my fault. I should have known better.
Thanks again to those who put some thought into their responses.
Jonathan
SamClemmons
eloquent absurdity
- Joined
- Dec 6, 2001
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Lumberg said:
You did know better jackass. Your thread is titled, "I'm going to be controversial here and ask, your opinion." Now you decide to be disingenuous and say you didn't intend... blah blah blah. You got just what you were looking for and here's my opinion since you asked for it.
I think you're a grasping little $hit. I think you are now backpeddling and lying to take the heat off. I think this is the same lousy crap you've been doing since you got here, shooting off your mouth and being an ass. I think you are a hopeless loser that seeks to gain attention on a bulletin board. I don't think you are sorry at all. I know you've shown the new guys what a lowlife, lowbrow, scumbag you can be. Of course, that's my opinion and you may well be much worse than I believe. Thanks for asking.
NA
SamClemmons
eloquent absurdity
- Joined
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Wow, that's a perfect description of the guy that started this thread. You asked for my opinion and now you have it. Get over it.Lumberg said:
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