Post value and thread meltdowns

[Burnt Tongue]

I'd suggest you proceed forward in your posts with nothing but respect towards Rod. He's given you a ton of slack on his board so that you can promote your clocks/lamps/humidors on the forums and behind the scenes. Back in February you stated here that you had already sold / traded for 100 cigar box clocks ~ at $30 -$40 a clock, that's an estimated $3500.00 in sales/ trades, not including the sales of your cigar box lamps, humidors, etc. Hefty $$$ for 5 months of membership. Take note, the last person who promoted his wares for personal gain here was DaveWF.

MMM,

I must have totally missed something... $3,500 profit from CigarPass in less than 6 months??? I now see where George, Neal, MMM, et all are coming from. I thought you had only sold 10 or so clocks here. My sponsors don't even pay anywhere NEAR $3,500 a year! Nowhere near that amount!!! And you have the nerve to have an attitude Wade? While at first I didn't agree with Neal's little clock scheme, but in the end he did a damn good job at proving how you're profiteering. This is freak'n nuts. While other's may look at Neal, Kirk, George as shit stirrers, my hat's off to these guys.

Corporate America is full of money hungry whores (and no Wade, I'm not calling you a money hungry whore). The cigar community in general is something quite different. Most consumers in this industry actually care about their hard earned money. Most of the American public has been brainwashed by the large corporations. Go buy a car, and they won't haggle with you. Buy a new computer and you have to buy from a big name chain/corporation. There are no more mom/pop shops anymore; they have all been washed away by the big corporations. It's really sad. I like to believe that cigar smokers are a little different, and we watch out for one another. How many gouger's do we have peddling their cigars here? None, since TW Cigars was kicked out.

I don't mean to stray off topic, but the fact remains that we are all part of this community not only for the wealth of information that it offers, but also to get fair deals on cigars, accessories, etc. I see people bombing, trading, doing cigar splits, etc everyday here. That's what CP is about, being part of a small community where we can trust one another, not profit from one another.

Wade, if I were you, I'd try to redeem myself by exempting myself from any controversial discussions. Posting this thread was nothing but bait, and you know it. Neal took it and ran with it. In the end, it came back to haunt you. CP really does have a lot to offer. If you give a little, you'll receive a lot. Just my advice to you.

Thanks for reading...

Rod

I understand the need for pointing out certain situations in these threads. The way this whole thing went down was childish and immature. The only one here who did the right thing was MMM. He pointed out clearly what he thought happened with Wade’s clocks and challenged Wade to defend himself. Wade should have responded to his challenge or not.

Sam Clemmons used his insulting remarks to "stir the shit" to quote Rod. I for one was insulted along the way when I challenged Sam Clemmons. I felt he went at it the wrong way and I stated so with what I thought was a reasonable post. I did not use any insulting remarks to state that opinion. What I got in return was more shit stirring and insulting remarks from Sam Clemmons. In my opinion Sam Clemmons was not acting in a manner suitable to this site. I only did this after reading a lot of his posts and realized he has been doing this for a long time. I did not see much if any added value to his posts going back for a full year. Do we need an attack dog on this site for our own protection? I for one don't think so. We can challenge offenders a lot more reasonably. This is a self moderated board and we need to use moderation when posting.

I also am a little confused about the so called post whoring charges here on this site. This is a bulletin board it is here for posting! Isn’t that what we are supposed to be doing? I have been called a post whore here by some and that is okay. I average 6 posts a day but most of my posts have added value whether you agree with them or not. The balance is to welcome someone or congratulate someone's good fortune. I think the challenge made to post whores should be "garbage poster". there are a lot of people who have high post counts and most of them have value. A few that come to mind are AVB, Wilkey and Blinded By Science (sorry for throwing you under the bus guys). Most of thier posts add value, should these guys cut back? I for one don't think so.

This is a good site and I enjoy myself (and learn about my hobby here) immensely. I have made a lot of friends here and most of the time I enjoy reading the posts. I do get disgusted when I read these attack posts and see the community melt down in front of our eyes. We need to change the way we "go after an offender" in these posts. We need to take a lesson from MMM and use a calm approach to charges we make. Calling someone a name is not the answer. We need to take a lesson from the Don Imus fiasco and start to use a little more self control on these posts. After all we are cigar smokers, are we not gentleman?

Sam you owe me an apology. I did nothing wrong in calling you on your post. I did it in a gentlemanly way and your response was inappropriate. I hope we can all be better brothers and learn from this situation. In the past we have prided ourselves for the methods used in posting here. We do not take spelling or grammatical shortcuts. We need to use the same pride in what we post! The climate of what is acceptable is changing and we need to change with it. This is just my opinion and felt the need to express it.

Thanks for your time,
Paul

 

[AVB]

You and anyone else who has been here for over a month , knew exactly what you would get from Sam. You may not like what he does but he does it for us (collectively) and is correct far more often then not. While you may think of him as an attack dog a number of us see him more as a guard dog of the values here and that is a big difference in opinion.

As for post whoring, it is not the number but the content or contribution they make. Does the person involve himself in the community beyond just making comments? Does he participate in passes, post reviews or pay it forward once in a while. There are some that average 8-10 posts per day who can't answer yes to any of those questions and those are your post whores.

While I certainly hope you can Sam can work something out (off the board please) I don't think you were that traumatized for an apology but that, of course, is JMHO.

 

[Burnt Tongue]

You and anyone else who has been here for over a month , knew exactly what you would get from Sam. You may not like what he does but he does it for us (collectively) and is correct far more often then not. While you may think of him as an attack dog a number of us see him more as a guard dog of the values here and that is a big difference in opinion.

As for post whoring, it is not the number but the content or contribution they make. Does the person involve himself in the community beyond just making comments? Does he participate in passes, post reviews or pay it forward once in a while. There are some that average 8-10 posts per day who can't answer yes to any of thos questions and those are your post whores.

While I certainly hope you can Sam can work something out (off the board please) I don't think you were that traumatized for an apology but that, of course, is JMHO.

I am not traumitized at all. It all comes down to repect. We all deserve it automatically until we deserve not to have it. I did not deserve disrespect and in my opinion it is a matter of pricipal.

 

[BlindedByScience]

<snip>.....We need to change the way we.....<snip>

Stop right there. Paul, this forum existed quite nicely long before you or I came along. It isn't a moderated forum, but rather depends on valuable members like Sam to watch the gate and point out issues that need attention. The way I look at it, you spend the time to learn about "how things work" and choose to integrate and play by the long established rules, or you don't. That's not to say things don't evolve with time, but it's not realistic to think that you or I could 'change things" just because we don't like the established practices. What you call an "attack" thread is considered by many to be a "heads up" thread. Lots of guys read these threads, take them in, and don't comment.

Paul, you're not a bad guy but Sam doesn't owe you an apology and things are how they are. This is, IMHO, the best cigar forum on the net. Many folks "read more and post less", and manage to integrate with the horde just fine. I hope you do, too.

My $00.02 - B.B.S.

 

[BlindedByScience]

I am not traumitized at all. It all comes down to repect. We all deserve it automatically until we deserve not to have it. I did not deserve disrespect and in my opinion it is a matter of pricipal.

No, Paul. Respect is earned over time. Much like trust. You get in the door for free, but becoming a respected member takes time, participation, and respect for others and the established methods and practices. Saying "things have to change" isn't a good step on that path. You have to start there with nothing in your "bank account" and build respect over time.

B.B.S.

 

[grateful1]

You and anyone else who has been here for over a month , knew exactly what you would get from Sam. You may not like what he does but he does it for us (collectively) and is correct far more often then not. While you may think of him as an attack dog a number of us see him more as a guard dog of the values here and that is a big difference in opinion.

As for post whoring, it is not the number but the content or contribution they make. Does the person involve himself in the community beyond just making comments? Does he participate in passes, post reviews or pay it forward once in a while. There are some that average 8-10 posts per day who can't answer yes to any of thos questions and those are your post whores.

While I certainly hope you can Sam can work something out (off the board please) I don't think you were that traumatized for an apology but that, of course, is JMHO.

I am not traumitized at all. It all comes down to repect. We all deserve it automatically until we deserve not to have it. I did not deserve disrespect and in my opinion it is a matter of pricipal.

Be careful with the 'respect' card.
Personally (yes my opinion and view) respect is earned.

Linky on FOG-dom

Linky on FOG Responsibilty


Best of luck on your quest.

 

[jfields]

I try to never put my 02. in these controversial subjects as a newb. I just wanted to say as a "lurker" in the less than positive threads I could not agree more on what you have just said Paul.
"Stirring the shit" and, telling people to "kiss my ass" is not what this site is all about.
I come to this site everday to learn and, make some friends in the process. My idea of fun isn't seeing who gets roasted or, seeing someone accusing everyone of taking part of an "in crowd".
There are positive ways like you pointed out to let someone know when they are not participating within what is considered the spirit of CP.
Then as you said, I have seen my share of what seems to be a select few that get their kicks out of making post that they know will inflame situations. I picture them sitting there laughing when they get the response they were hoping for. Hoping others join in on the fun.
This is not in any way constructive or, what I think Rod envisions being the spirit of CP. I do think respect is earned and not given though here or, anywhere else for that matter.

I also agree that you are owed an apology Paul.
Edited to say: Then again, maybe I don't have all the facts on you and Samclemmons. Maybe , that Part I should stay out of and, let you two work it out.

 

[MilesMingusMonk]

When you hear the train comin' - get off the tracks !

 

[Devil Doc]

Funny how perceptions vary. I thought SC treated him quite gently.

Doc.

 

[Burnt Tongue]

I used respect only as a term of how we talk to each other not as a measure of ones value. Is it your premis that we deserve disrespect until we have earned respect?

 

[Mrepp]

Here in lies the problem, too many people take too many things at face value. A lot of people compose them selves as they are in real life which is fine for an established member. As doing such they give each other and most people crap. Were guys its what we do. It’s kinda like when I walk into the bar and tell my buddy to go fugg a sheep and he tells me to blow em, he then goes and buys a pitcher of beer for us and I rack to pool table. It’s not something you should get hurt feeling over… If you’re a newer guy you might want to tread on lighter ground till people get to know you. As far as post whoreing if you think you are you probably are. This aint the support group for men, it’s about cigar, booze and b*tch’s.

 

[jfields]

I used respect only as a term of how we talk to each other not as a measure of ones value. Is it your premis that we deserve disrespect until we have earned respect?

No! Treat everyone with kindness and, like you would want them to treat you. Lead by example................Respect will surely follow.

 

[JHolmes763]

I've already had this discussion and was put in my place. You are not worthy of respect around here until you earn it. I'm sure there are people that disagree with that however, and will treat people with respect and eventually trust until they do something to lose it.

---John Holmes...

 

[MiamiCubano]

Funny how perceptions vary. I thought SC treated him quite gently.

Doc.

As did I Doc.

AVB and BBS - couldn't have said it better gents and I echo your sentiments completely.

Respect is earned here just as it is in life. A premise of "disrespect?" I don't even know what about this site would lead you to believe that. Has anyone treated you disrespectfully since day one onwards? That doesn't happen here, at least in the 3+ years I have been a part of this site, and I can't imagine these brothers ever acted in such a way prior to that time. Rather, if anything, a noob is treated cordial and, perhaps at worst, indifferently than any other noob. But respect...that is something different altogether. The measure of a person is developed over time, not instantly. If life hasn't shown you this by now, there's no wonder you don't get it with regards to this forum. Likewise, if you couldnt see what Neal was pointing out, if you couldn't realize that his posts have been, and continue to be, constructive, then I really don't know what else can be said to you on the subject. Perhaps one day you will.

As others have said, this is the finest board on the net and possess some of the finest brothers/sisters you could ever hope to come across. Hopefully you realize that and choose to remain a part of it, as it is. If not, it is truly your loss.

 

[Rob_k]

FYI: Neal and some of the other so called "shit stirrers" have done nothing but protect the community, long before you or I were here. I sometimes do not agree with Neal's methods, but I certainly respect he and the other FOG's motives to protect the bigger picture here.
Grow some thick skin guys, you'll be a better person for it.

 

[Burnt Tongue]

Here in lies the problem, too many people take too many things at face value. A lot of people compose them selves as they are in real life which is fine for an established member. As doing such they give each other and most people crap. Were guys its what we do. It’s kinda like when I walk into the bar and tell my buddy to go fugg a sheep and he tells me to blow em, he then goes and buys a pitcher of beer for us and I rack to pool table. It’s not something you should get hurt feeling over… If you’re a newer guy you might want to tread on lighter ground till people get to know you. As far as post whoreing if you think you are you probably are. This aint the support group for men, it’s about cigar, booze and b*tch’s.

Maybe I have lost touch with reality. I guess I missed the point of this board. I was not aware that this site was about "cigars, booze and b*tch’s." I guess we all need to act like we are in a bar. I retract what I said in my first post. Now that I have been corrected and undestand that we are in a bar and will be treating each other in that manner I will change my posting habbits and start telling everyone to "fugg a sheep". By the way my feelings were never hurt. I would not have taken that from Sam in person, I am not going to take it here. The bars I used to frequent were a little different. You would have had your a$$ kicked for telling someone to go "fugg a sheep".

 

[davew0670]

I guess we all need to act like we are in a bar


exactly how it should be...but it's not. I seriously doubt some of the things that have been said to Wade and to other people would be said if they were standing face to face. My 65 year old mom can can act like a bad ass on the internet.

 

[Hillbilly Steaks]

Here in lies the problem, too many people take too many things at face value. A lot of people compose them selves as they are in real life which is fine for an established member. As doing such they give each other and most people crap. Were guys its what we do. It’s kinda like when I walk into the bar and tell my buddy to go fugg a sheep and he tells me to blow em, he then goes and buys a pitcher of beer for us and I rack to pool table. It’s not something you should get hurt feeling over… If you’re a newer guy you might want to tread on lighter ground till people get to know you. As far as post whoreing if you think you are you probably are. This aint the support group for men, it’s about cigar, booze and b*tch’s.

Maybe I have lost touch with reality. I guess I missed the point of this board. I was not aware that this site was about "cigars, booze and b*tch’s." I guess we all need to act like we are in a bar. I retract what I said in my first post. Now that I have been corrected and undestand that we are in a bar and will be treating each other in that manner I will change my posting habbits and start telling everyone to "fugg a sheep". By the way my feelings were never hurt. I would not have taken that from Sam in person, I am not going to take it here. The bars I used to frequent were a little different. You would have had your a$$ kicked for telling someone to go "fugg a sheep".

you're just pissed off now man. He was simply referring to how buddies like to give each other shit.

But make sure you bring your velcro gloves :laugh:

 

[Mrepp]

Here in lies the problem, too many people take too many things at face value. A lot of people compose them selves as they are in real life which is fine for an established member. As doing such they give each other and most people crap. Were guys its what we do. It’s kinda like when I walk into the bar and tell my buddy to go fugg a sheep and he tells me to blow em, he then goes and buys a pitcher of beer for us and I rack to pool table. It’s not something you should get hurt feeling over… If you’re a newer guy you might want to tread on lighter ground till people get to know you. As far as post whoreing if you think you are you probably are. This aint the support group for men, it’s about cigar, booze and b*tch’s.

Maybe I have lost touch with reality. I guess I missed the point of this board. I was not aware that this site was about "cigars, booze and b*tch’s." I guess we all need to act like we are in a bar. I retract what I said in my first post. Now that I have been corrected and undestand that we are in a bar and will be treating each other in that manner I will change my posting habbits and start telling everyone to "fugg a sheep". By the way my feelings were never hurt. I would not have taken that from Sam in person, I am not going to take it here. The bars I used to frequent were a little different. You would have had your a$$ kicked for telling someone to go "fugg a sheep".

Paul I think you’re a good guy I guess I missed what I was going for here. I just mean that not everything is meant as an insult. Maybe busting peoples balls isn’t for everyone but it’s kinda the way it is here, there just no since in getting all up in a tizzy over it.

 

[grateful1]

I used respect only as a term of how we talk to each other not as a measure of ones value. Is it your premis that we deserve disrespect until we have earned respect?

I take it you're speaking to me..in part?
Note - there is respect - disrepsect - AND - nuetral

Here's a nice long read on respect. <something from Plato and Stanford U.>

To answer your question - no.
To elaborate - respect is earned....I try to walk away before I disrespect.

However - which form of repsect are you referring too? We can talk apples to apples...I don't want to be having a dialogue on a slightly different subject. (reference points) Linky1 Linky2

Now I believe the repect which we are referring to either :
3.esteem for or a sense of the worth or excellence of a person, a personal quality or ability, or something considered as a manifestation of a personal quality or ability: I have great respect for her judgment.
or

5.the condition of being esteemed or honored: to be held in respect.
Now, if that's the case - you may better see were repect is earned.
I can only respect OR disrespect someone after they show me who they are - by words or actions.