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Fake Davidoff and Dunhills sold on CP

Could we please let the rest of the info come out before we drop the blame solely at Tim's feet?

And to be right up front about my opinion, if Tim decides to run and hide then he deserves any and all wrath he ends up pulling down upon himself and I'll step back and out of the matter.

Tim if you are reading this, all it would take is a simple moment of your time to say, "Hey brothers I got taken too and I'm sorry about it." to bring things back on an even keel.

But Jon and Chris, if he does come back to man up, I'm hoping you aren't expecting him to cough up that amount of money and pay everyone back. Because if he truly acted as a middle man in good faith for someone who was/has been considered for years to be a legitimate source by a great number of the online cigar community, it isn't his money to return.

And I said it above and I'll repeat myself again, comparing this to Spivy's bullshit isn't even close to being fair. The two are galaxies apart.

My one and only big complaint about CP over the years is how quickly people run for the feathers and tar here. Tim deserves better than that IF he takes the high road and comes and says his piece.

If he doesn't, well then... TALLY-HO!
 
Shawn I expecting him to make good. What happens if I buy a box of CC's from a vendor and then start selling & trading them. If they are found out to be fakes I'm responsible to make good on it. I can't say I was just acting as the middleman on it. Doesn't matter if it's a $1 cigar or a $1000 cigar. He used his rep to make the sales. Plain and simple he is responsible. Also being gone from the site for 2 weeks and then telling insight that has left the boards speaks volumes.
 
Fellas I've been in touch with Tim, he is in the same boat as all who purchased. Long time well known individual who was/is collector and made these available. We did not then suspect that the cigars were in question. The guy was respected so if his cigars are bogus cigars, Tim got taken too. He hasn't been posting here in a long time. If he comes back to post that he also got taken, will that make it right for the rest of you? I don't think it will, so there is nothing to gain from getting Tim to post. Take it for what it is, if you want to get a hold of Tim he's on FB.
 
I think the only way Tim would be able to make right was if he was made right by the original purveyor...and I doubt that is going to happen. I chalk mine up to what my mama always said....no not the box of chocolates one....but that education is expensive.
 
Diesel Grinch said:
Shawn I expecting him to make good. What happens if I buy a box of CC's from a vendor and then start selling & trading them. If they are found out to be fakes I'm responsible to make good on it. I can't say I was just acting as the middleman on it. Doesn't matter if it's a $1 cigar or a $1000 cigar. He used his rep to make the sales. Plain and simple he is responsible. Also being gone from the site for 2 weeks and then telling insight that has left the boards speaks volumes.
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Well I disagree with everything but the last part. And I'm pretty sure your opinion and the people who agree with you, may be the reason we never hear from Tim again. Not that he knew about the cigars being fake.. Shame really.

And BTW if I buy a box from a vendor I'm one hundred percent they are real. If you can't say the same thing... you're buying from the wrong vendor. I'd also PM the people who where interested in buying some of those cigars where/who I got them from and let them decide for themselves if they wanted some.

Take Dago for example, in his first post he bashed Tim and talked up his other source as being way more reliable. And then a few posts later he stated that he looked at the cigars from both sources and they were identical.

What Dago didn't say is if he decided to get a refund from his waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more reliable source or not and if he did, how that worked out for him.

I can't say if I would have brought a deal like this one to CP if I had the opportunity, what I can say in all brutal honesty is if I had of

1) I'd owe up to my mistake and not run and hide.

2) I wouldn't have the money to pay anyone back, since I wouldn't have made a plugged nickel on the deal, something Tim claimed back in 2009 and I still believe.

Then again I don't smoke what I can't afford, something people seem to do all the time until it comes and bites them in the ass. One of the reason's I'm still around and those people aren't.

Shawn
 
tone-ny said:
If he comes back to post that he also got taken, will that make it right for the rest of you?
Click to expand...

It would be for a lot of us, and from the sounds of it you as well.

So there is nothing to gain from getting Tim to post.
Click to expand...

Other than a clean break... If he truly wants to quit CP, quitting over this in such a manner is just a plain bad idea. I got to believe Tim knows that.

"Worry more about your character than your reputation. Character is what you are, reputation merely what others think you are." -- John Wooden
 
Wurm said:
tone-ny said:
If he comes back to post that he also got taken, will that make it right for the rest of you?
Click to expand...

It would be for a lot of us, and from the sounds of it you as well.

So there is nothing to gain from getting Tim to post.
Click to expand...

Other than a clean break... If he truly wants to quit CP, quitting over this in such a manner is just a plain bad idea. I got to believe Tim knows that.

"Worry more about your character than your reputation. Character is what you are, reputation merely what others think you are." -- John Wooden
Click to expand...

Shawn check his last post it has to be close to over a year if I'm not mistaken. Yes he checked in recently, but I sure it was to see this. He explained to me that he purchased the cigars as he too thought they came from a legitimate sources. Other than that what can he add?
 
Wurm said:
1) I'd owe up to my mistake and not run and hide.

2) I wouldn't have the money to pay anyone back, since I wouldn't have made a plugged nickel on the deal, something Tim claimed back in 2009 and I still believe.

Then again I don't smoke what I can't afford, something people seem to do all the time until it comes and bites them in the ass. One of the reason's I'm still around and those people aren't.

Shawn
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That is more or less the crux of it. What does anyone expect Tim to say? It would be nice for him to come back and explain the situation from his end but with all the pitch-forks and torches who can blame him. Honestly, I haven't follow the thread at ICC and really don't care too, nor did I purchase any of the cigars.

I think some of what is getting lost here is the enormity and repercussions of what actually transpired. Looking at what these cigars were selling for and the total amounts of cash lost (estimated) gives you a view at how vast this was. The ability to get the raw product and then be able to market them and sell them as legit speaks to the connections of the players involved. This isn't just a case of a guy dying cellos or re-banding an Anejo as a Opus Shark Maduro, you are talking 100 upon 100's of boxes sold to people who are smart enough to know a supposed "trusted" source from the guy with the glass top Cohiba's
 
tone-ny said:
Wurm said:
tone-ny said:
If he comes back to post that he also got taken, will that make it right for the rest of you?
Click to expand...

It would be for a lot of us, and from the sounds of it you as well.

So there is nothing to gain from getting Tim to post.
Click to expand...

Other than a clean break... If he truly wants to quit CP, quitting over this in such a manner is just a plain bad idea. I got to believe Tim knows that.

"Worry more about your character than your reputation. Character is what you are, reputation merely what others think you are." -- John Wooden
Click to expand...

Shawn check his last post it has to be close to over a year if I'm not mistaken. Yes he checked in recently, but I sure it was to see this. He explained to me that he purchased the cigars as he too thought they came from a legitimate sources. Other than that what can he add?
Click to expand...

OK Tony, my bad. I looked at his last activity date but not when he made his last post.

I'd still log in and say "I'm sorry." but that's just me.
 
souldog said:
I understand this is a "bigger than board" issue, but I agree with the assessment that Tim is responsible. It's how we've done it, why change it now just because we're dealing with VHTF cigars/fakes? Spiffy sold OR Anejos that he's made claim that weren't fake. They turned out to be, and he was made responsible. He's made good on everything now, and good for him. The key word to me in this situation is "precedence."
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I have to agree with this. Tim arranged the sale, the money went to him, the cigars came from him.

He should refund those who want refunds, in exchange for them returning the cigars to him in the same shape they were shipped to them.

It's then his problem to get reimbursed from the original seller of the cigars (and then in turn, it's Allan's problem to get reimbursed from Bruce, and Bruce from his source, and so on and so forth).

If you no longer have the cigars you purchased from Tim, or they have been damaged in any way in the interim, you're out of luck, IMO.

Or if he really feels he should be abdicated of any responsibility, at worst, he should post Allan's, address and phone number, and say "Here, go get 'em"
 
moki said:
souldog said:
I understand this is a "bigger than board" issue, but I agree with the assessment that Tim is responsible. It's how we've done it, why change it now just because we're dealing with VHTF cigars/fakes? Spiffy sold OR Anejos that he's made claim that weren't fake. They turned out to be, and he was made responsible. He's made good on everything now, and good for him. The key word to me in this situation is "precedence."
Click to expand...

I have to agree with this. Tim arranged the sale, the money went to him, the cigars came from him.

He should refund those who want refunds, in exchange for them returning the cigars to him in the same shape they were shipped to them.
Click to expand...

I don't have a dog in this hunt, and I've been sitting and watching this unfold, but i as well agree with this. Regardless of the magnitude of this scam, CP handles things differently...which is what we pride ourselves on. Tim put his reputation on the line when he brokered the deal...it's how he handles it now moving forward that will show his integrity.

We haven't had different expectations for different people, this is just how things are done here. Whether he got duped or not, he needs to make an effort to make things right with the individuals that bought cigars from HIM, and gave money to HIM. If he just disappears...especially since he knows what's going on, that will speak volumes.
 
Jon hit the nail on the head for me too. I bought a share of these cigars and always just assumed they were past their prime, or had not been properly cared for. I hold Tim responsible since he was the person who was my point of contact as well as the one I stroked the checks out to.

I don't ever expect to see anything back from him in the form of reimbursement. Especially, since I only have a few left out of the original sale. I just look at it as a very expensive education. Some of the best lessons I've learned hurt the most. I now can say there are only about two people I know on these boards I would ever consider buying vintage/vhtf cigars from, where I used to be very trusting with just a bit of diligence.

Now! It would mean quite a bit to me for Tim to just come out and say something. Just anything to let me know he was not in on this in any way and was fooled like the rest. Even if he ultimately says I have no way to refund the money you guys were duped out of I wouldn't hold any ill will toward him.
 
jfields said:
Now! It would mean quite a bit to me for Tim to just come out and say something. Just anything to let me know he was not in on this in any way and was fooled like the rest. Even if he ultimately says I have no way to refund the money you guys were duped out of I wouldn't hold any ill will toward him.
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Ditto, if he posted the name, address, and phone number of the person he brokered the sale for.
 
Holy crap, someone make a note of the fact that I actually contributed something to CP! :laugh:

In all seriousness, I hope that we hear from Tim. I'm very sorry that some really good guys got taken in this.
 
All I can say is I have told Tim about this thread and requested he reply numerous times. If he chooses not to he will be treated just like anyone else who cuts and runs during an implosion like this. Tim has been a friend a long time but he still needs to be held to a standard of behavior and at the very least owes the community a reply.
 
BigJake6904 said:
I don't have a dog in this hunt, and I've been sitting and watching this unfold, but i as well agree with this. Regardless of the magnitude of this scam, CP handles things differently...which is what we pride ourselves on. Tim put his reputation on the line when he brokered the deal...it's how he handles it now moving forward that will show his integrity.

We haven't had different expectations for different people, this is just how things are done here. Whether he got duped or not, he needs to make an effort to make things right with the individuals that bought cigars from HIM, and gave money to HIM. If he just disappears...especially since he knows what's going on, that will speak volumes.
Click to expand...
.....yeah. I'm not under the bus on this one, but it sure would be good for Tim to check in and clear the air. He's a good guy, but the silence here is deafening.....
 
moki said:
souldog said:
I understand this is a "bigger than board" issue, but I agree with the assessment that Tim is responsible. It's how we've done it, why change it now just because we're dealing with VHTF cigars/fakes? Spiffy sold OR Anejos that he's made claim that weren't fake. They turned out to be, and he was made responsible. He's made good on everything now, and good for him. The key word to me in this situation is "precedence."
Click to expand...

I have to agree with this. Tim arranged the sale, the money went to him, the cigars came from him.

He should refund those who want refunds, in exchange for them returning the cigars to him in the same shape they were shipped to them.

It's then his problem to get reimbursed from the original seller of the cigars (and then in turn, it's Allan's problem to get reimbursed from Bruce, and Bruce from his source, and so on and so forth).

If you no longer have the cigars you purchased from Tim, or they have been damaged in any way in the interim, you're out of luck, IMO.

Or if he really feels he should be abdicated of any responsibility, at worst, he should post Allan's, address and phone number, and say "Here, go get 'em"
Click to expand...

Not exactly true, Andrew. It's my understanding that the cigars were shipped directly from the collector. I could be wrong as I haven't discussed this with Tim directly.

For the record, I agree with those who state that Tim was not directly responsible here. I hear Jon on his post, though. It's quite the conundrum. I do know that Tim is a good guy that would never knowingly defraud anyone.
 
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