sack
'From man's sweat and God's love, beer came to be.
I've never felt as low as i am right now, as i watch and learn what has been happening to my money and the theives who are involved. :0 :angry:
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Federal investigation into AIG
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Infinity
Infinity - *Unbounded space, time, or quantity*
Claudio, the problem is that we are all so naive. If we knew just 10% of what is going on, we would revolt.
Brian
sack
'From man's sweat and God's love, beer came to be.
This affects eveyone no matter your status in society, if you weren't on the inside you were on the outside, and your money paid for things that were worthless. If this were the 1800's a lot of people would be hanging. :angry:
sack
'From man's sweat and God's love, beer came to be.
Somebody better hang, the higher the better.
LilBastage
Meat is murder! Tasty, tasty murder.
So when are the investigations/hearings into Congress and the Federal Government going to start? They have as much part in this as any of the banks/lenders/deadbeat borrowers.
eff 'em all... :angry:
eff 'em all... :angry:
themoneycollector
Jokester
And all of us taxpayers are tethering on the other side :angry:
punk_lawyer
Habeas Punkus
The depth of this issue continues to amaze me.
golfgar
Bueller.... Bueller...... Anyone....... Anyone?
This is a very strange position to be in. As a taxpayer, I already feel there is enough of a burden. As an investor I wish the value of my investments would go up. Obviously whatever the Feds are doing, meaning the buying of property, adjusting the interest rate, raising the FDIC limit and putting the Fed guarantee on commercial paper is not working to solve the perceived liquidity crisis. The gut reaction is to let the people who took the risk take the pain. But in the end it is the collective us. One concrete example of how this thing has gone sideways is something a former business assiciate did.....here it is:
I am not sure if I have this thing all figured out and I'm sure by now it is much more complicated than this but for this example here is my stab at "follow the money".
December 29, 2006 he purchased a second home in the reclaimed swampland about 25 miles from Disney World price $800,000. He did this with 105% borrowed money. A fisrt mortgage from Countrywide for 80% of the home's value or $640,000. He got a second mortgage from Countrywide for $200,000 because the appraisal was higher than the purchase price. He had ZERO invested in the house and in fact ended up with some cash in his pocket. The fees were paid out of the proceeds of the second mortgage and believe me they were excessive. Since it is Florida the decrease in value hit hard and fast. Within 6 months the value of the property declined to less than $600,000. He couldn't afford to pay the mortgage back and turned over the keys and was considering legal proceedings against the developer and Countrywide. Who knows what the value is now, but I am guessing substantially less than the $600,000. So in this case who ended up with the money and who supplied the money? The developer, builder, suppliers and employees got paid. Countrywide collected fees. The mortgages were sold into a pool and the consolidators of the pool took a percentage. The agents of the securities buyers got some commission and the companies we own through our various stock investments and quasi-federal agencies ended up with the mortgage(s). I would suppose Countrywide also ended up with some portion of the notes, probably the second mortgage.
The liquitity issue has ballooned in a lot of circles and it is not necessarily all related to transactions like the above but I thought perhaps it would be (fun?) to have a concrete example of things going bad. The decisionmakers should bear the risk as they have reaped the rewards, however, making that happen is way beyond me.
edited spelling
I am not sure if I have this thing all figured out and I'm sure by now it is much more complicated than this but for this example here is my stab at "follow the money".
December 29, 2006 he purchased a second home in the reclaimed swampland about 25 miles from Disney World price $800,000. He did this with 105% borrowed money. A fisrt mortgage from Countrywide for 80% of the home's value or $640,000. He got a second mortgage from Countrywide for $200,000 because the appraisal was higher than the purchase price. He had ZERO invested in the house and in fact ended up with some cash in his pocket. The fees were paid out of the proceeds of the second mortgage and believe me they were excessive. Since it is Florida the decrease in value hit hard and fast. Within 6 months the value of the property declined to less than $600,000. He couldn't afford to pay the mortgage back and turned over the keys and was considering legal proceedings against the developer and Countrywide. Who knows what the value is now, but I am guessing substantially less than the $600,000. So in this case who ended up with the money and who supplied the money? The developer, builder, suppliers and employees got paid. Countrywide collected fees. The mortgages were sold into a pool and the consolidators of the pool took a percentage. The agents of the securities buyers got some commission and the companies we own through our various stock investments and quasi-federal agencies ended up with the mortgage(s). I would suppose Countrywide also ended up with some portion of the notes, probably the second mortgage.
The liquitity issue has ballooned in a lot of circles and it is not necessarily all related to transactions like the above but I thought perhaps it would be (fun?) to have a concrete example of things going bad. The decisionmakers should bear the risk as they have reaped the rewards, however, making that happen is way beyond me.
edited spelling
billytpage
Active Member
Wow! One of my new BOTL's in Houston works at AIG and just got a promotion, he thought it was funny as they would probably lay him off in the near future.
Billy
Billy
Alan, I couldn't agree more. I will not vote again for an incumbant (sp?) in my state, regardless of party. I hate to cover all senators and representatives with a blanket statement, but it sure seems as though there are more bad apples than good. Time for a new crop IMO.
sack
'From man's sweat and God's love, beer came to be.
I wholeheartedly agree! Illinois is Democrat, i'm voting Republican. Cook County is Democrat, i'm voting Republican. The US is Republican, i'm voting Democrat. All these knuckleheads need to hear the message. :angry: