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2009 tobacco tax proposals

Been feeling kind of spoiled I guess with PA having no tax on cigars. I do like Ed Rendell but this pisses me off. I don't see why you'd feel it the right thing to do to punish cigar smokers over other types of enthusiasts.
 
uptown_isy said:
That's just sickening. When will this stop?
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It won't stop anytime soon, if at all. Tobacco users are a targeted group and there's really not much we can do about it. The people doing this have "science" on their side and the fact that it's really annoying to a lot of people to be around smokers.

It will take some sort of "tax revolt" to stop this. As the number of smokers continues to fall, any movement such as that will fall on deaf ears.

Once it gets to a certain point, I'll find another hobby to spend my money on until they decide to tax that into oblivion. That point is getting closer and closer every year...
 
These taxes are killing the retailer and distributor. The guy that supplies our cigars during our stogie events runs a distributership. He said that the extra taxes on loose tobacco will amount to $225,000 for every one of his shipments. He has no idea how to cover the additional taxes especially if payment will be required up-front. He doesn't exactly have $1/4 million just laying around waiting to give to the government.
 
Illinois raised taxes on tobacco this year and now the state has passed a law authorizing the casinos by the state lines to give out free drinks, ala Las Vegas. Great idea, raising taxes during a recession. Chicago's budget is down the tube also, can't fix potholes and hire more policemen, but we're being protected from tobacco. :rolleyes:
 
flamchop said:
Been feeling kind of spoiled I guess with PA having no tax on cigars. I do like Ed Rendell but this pisses me off. I don't see why you'd feel it the right thing to do to punish cigar smokers over other types of enthusiasts.
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You must be a relative :sign:
 
sack said:
Illinois raised taxes on tobacco this year and now the state has passed a law authorizing the casinos by the state lines to give out free drinks, ala Las Vegas. Great idea, raising taxes during a recession. Chicago's budget is down the tube also, can't fix potholes and hire more policemen, but we're being protected from tobacco. :rolleyes:
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I'm guessing this is, at least in part, due to the fact that Iowa's smoking ban doesn't include casinos. I'm not sure of the other bordering states but I know I've heard reports that people are going to Dubuque and the Iowa side of the Quad Cities to casinos because of that very fact. This is just their way of trying to entice those expatriots back to Illinois to gamble, short of allowing them to smoke.

Alan, I hear you on the taxing of other hobbies. Iowa has seen increases in hunting and fishing licenses and I would expect to see more of the same in the near future. Soon you won't be able to hunt deer in the King's Forrest. :laugh: In my travels I've noticed the Hiway Patrol pulling over speeders with more frequency as well. This is all an attempt to increase the money flow into the state's pockets without saying their raising taxes.
 
It's worth pointing out that a lot of things get proposed and fewer get enacted, and many of those that do are modified significantly. That's just the legislative process. Any idiot legislator (and there are plenty of them) can file a bill.
Having said that, there is a trend that is somewhat worrisome. I have very little sympathy for cigarette smokers, but attacking cigar and pipe smokers -- who generally are moderate in their habits -- strikes me as puerile at least. And, as others have pointed out, there is a diminishing return as people are encouraged/coerced into dropping their habit. But I can tell you from personal experience in DC that lawmakers will worry about that later. They are interested in this year's budget and the five-year revenue effect of some measure - not whether it is in anybody's longterm interest.
 
Well we have a 56.6% Tax + 13% Retail tax on each stick up here in Ontario. What that means is

If a retailer buys a cigar for $1 from a supplier and they want to make say $1, they must 1st charge 56.6% on the $2 which is $3.13 to the buyer +sales tax another 13% making it $3.54 after tax per stick...

It sucks alot.
 
They interviewed Daschle (I think it was him) about this a month ago or so and he said something to the effect of a large portion of medical spending was for preventable actions like drinking, smoking and driving. And the idea was that if you make universal health care a reality, and make sure that no one can be denied coverage, then you have to get out there and basically cancel all those things out best you could.

It was a really honest moment I thought about the idea that if someone drinks all his life and gets liver disease and then bills his insurance company 250K in procedures as he's dying. It's not really sustainable. At some point you have to get that guy to stop drinking. Same for smokers and any user of tobacco.

It seemed pretty intuitive after I thought about it. At this point in our society no one HAS to insure us, so if I go to Blue Cross and say "I smoke 8 packs a day, never stopped or paid a premium in 20 years and I ain't never going to stop" They're going to either cover me and pay the consequences, charge me more or tell me to screw off.

As we move to universal coverage, Blue Cross is going to be forbidden from charging us more or telling us to screw off. As is medicare today. And you can't really blame the government for getting real on the concept that they need to reduce claims if they're going to cover everyone.

Just one man's opinion but I think it's clear that if we are going to have universal health care in this country we need to get serious about outlawing any form of activity that has a higher-than-normal probability of creating health problems. Or at least ban you from healthcare. And if you're against banning this stuff then you need to be ready to fight back against universal health care today, not 10 years from now after all these taxes have been raised."
 
I think you're right Dago. I caught the tail end of a conversation Friday on the radio about treating McD's and other fast food chains like bars. A bartender reserves the right to cutting off a customer he/she thinks has had too much to drink. How a far away are we from obese people being refused service at fast food places? There have been lawsuits already about being "overserved" from what I heard on the show.
 
cookie_1978 said:
flamchop said:
Been feeling kind of spoiled I guess with PA having no tax on cigars. I do like Ed Rendell but this pisses me off. I don't see why you'd feel it the right thing to do to punish cigar smokers over other types of enthusiasts.
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You must be a relative :sign:
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Looks like PA is going to take a hit, much like Colorado has. Shame. Good news for CO is that there are no rumors of screwing us any worse.
 
I read an editorial in the WSJ this morning from a doctor in New York talking about how Medicaid's stated purpose is to keep anyone from being ruined by health costs. His point was that there was a big move to limit the total medicaid patients a hospital would have to talk.

He made a pretty good thought, if Medicaid paid the hospital what the patient cost then why would they limit patients? And in understanding that they are underpaid for every Medicaid patient, who makes up the difference? You and me obviously.

And the government's point, how many of these massive bills are due to tobacco, alcohol, cars and fast food?? If they want to get those numbers down then they need to make sure we stop using those products.
 
dagoR6 said:
I read an editorial in the WSJ this morning from a doctor in New York talking about how Medicaid's stated purpose is to keep anyone from being ruined by health costs. His point was that there was a big move to limit the total medicaid patients a hospital would have to talk.

He made a pretty good thought, if Medicaid paid the hospital what the patient cost then why would they limit patients? And in understanding that they are underpaid for every Medicaid patient, who makes up the difference? You and me obviously.

And the government's point, how many of these massive bills are due to tobacco, alcohol, cars and fast food?? If they want to get those numbers down then they need to make sure we stop using those products.
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See there is a flaw here. I will use myself as an example. I never smoked and rarely drank any alcohol upto the point I smashed my hip. Then the Army Doctors took a short cut in my surgery and damaged my spine. I had been sick from the day I was born till a good 12 years old. Bronchitis and every thing else you can think of. Hell, I was allergic to everything but the air itself. And back then, stuff in the air could have made me really sick and the Doctor's didn't even know about it then.

My parents paid dearly for me medical treatment. I still to this day do not know how they made it. They didn't get Medicaid at all. My dad barely made ends met as it was. I remember helping out doing odd jobs like putting in wells, roofing, and many other shaft construction jobs my parents did on the side to earn extra cash to pay the medical bills. Now toss in being in the hospital one year I logged in over 300 days. Still no assistance when my family clearly needed it.

Now, being a Disabled Veteran, I get the greatest health care on Earth. Socialized VA health care. I hope all can read the sarcasm that is dripping from this statement. Ok ok...Its one of the worst health care I've ever had. But I have no choice. No insurance company will give me any and if they did, you are talking a Premium every month of at least $800 to $1000 a month just for coverage. I got pretty screwed up in the Army.

Since then, there was a time I did drink a lot in the Army. To hide the pain I was in 24/7 as the Army cure all is Motrim. Which later on caused me to get some wonderful cancer. I started cigars in April 1997. I can count on one hand that I have been sick since. Except all the stuff related to my injuries in the Army and side effects from their treatment.

Trust me...the last thing we want is the Government telling us what we can and can't do with out our life. And you do not want Socialized medicine in the system we have in the USA. I'm sure some Veterans will say they've had no problems. But they are few and far in between.
 
This thread is going political, which was not my intention. I simply wanted to make those aware of legislation affecting our hobby.


I'm asking Rod to lock it down, before it becomes any more political.
 
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